Limited Company Claims

[patrickq1]

then your best option if you have another bank account with another bank is to carry on trading but put into dispute your first bank against the related overcharging but you must do this quickly otherwise they will possibly go for a bankrupcy ,but for such a pitiful amount this will be unlikely ..but you know banks say one thing and do another sneaky operators hopefully your second bank is in another area as the old boys network is still operating,but first begin your actions imediately against the first bank at least you will have some breathing space as for making payment you would have to state what these payments are for,payments towards the balance you beleive you owe and not against the running account that is overcharging

[tiaposy]

We have another account, different bank, different county. I wrote to the bank Manager on Friday - they got letter on Saturday, overdraft removed on Sunday.

We don't owe anything as the charges are just over the overdraft amount.

Can they make us bankrupt if we didn't sign a new indemnity?

I had to give the bank manager details of our new account number so they could arrange for the business loan to come out of it. I have cancelled all direct debits etc, and told them I will take cards/chq books back to our local branch within the next week. We also had a joint account with them, but have moved that too so that they didn't 'dip' into it to cover the business account!!

 

I was expecting a phone call from him yesterday, but nothing yet!

[patrickq1]

he will be in touch no doubt this week if it is a limited company then he cannot personally make you a bankrupt the only time this can happen is if you have signed a deed of assignment or signed your property over,other than that he can issue proceedings against your ltd company and possibly bankruptcy against the company but he cannot touch you personally,you could register a new simmallar company and put the old company including all debts into volantry receivership this will upset your manager but also tell the bank in writing that your bank manager gave you no other option but to go down this road,he will more or less get hauled over the coals for not being quicker than you lol good luck on your new venture remember sell your assets to an independant source reason for independance is that you are not tainted with fraudulent transaction and re purchase your old assets from this independant source at a later date or hire it from the independant source

[patrickq1]

dont forget to cut your cards and cheque book making them useless as for repaying them back i would nt give them the satisfaction considering how they have treated your account let em whistle for it,why be nice when they could have finnished you of altogether...

[tiaposy]

Thanks for this - mind at rest!!

The ironic thing is, we are finally getting through a really bad year - getting clear and he does this to us!

We have the same company and do not want to liquidate or go bankrupt, but we will see what the postman brings us...

[patrickq1]

then see if its possible to change the name slightly to whatever2007 ltd

good luck

[tiaposy]

Probably being stupid - but why would need to change the name? If they are going for the bankruptcy, fair enough, but I don't want to get out of paying anyone. We don't owe this - its their money they are chasing!!

[andrew1]

then see if its possible to change the name slightly to whatever2007 ltd

good luck

 

 

Sorry, I would strongly advise against this. The insolvency Act and a liquidator would come down on you like a ton of hot bricks and cause you no end of difficulty. The directors would have incredible difficulty in what used to be known as the Phoenix Company syndrome'

 

I'll re read over your details and come back.

[patrickq1]

i would myself strongly advise against the bankrupcy option andrew but when someone is trying to be reasonable with the bank and they show no consideration sometimes it is the best option provided it is not fraudulent or dis honest

[andrew1]

Bankruptcy is a personal thing - Ltd Companies are liquidations and there is a very big difference between the two.

 

Limited company claims can continue and there are strong arguments for objecting to any stays the banks might try to get on court action. There are some very good , well thought through points available on this forum to include in legal action. I'll find it and post this so that your claim for your charges can proceed without it being dumped in with the OFT situation. This is a Ltd Company isn't it? Sorry Partick, but I do not agree with your choice of action or comments above.

[tiaposy]

Yes we are a Limited Company.

I do not want to go bankrupt, and as I said before, we did not sign a new indemnity, as Directors, when they set up the new overdraft, so I am not sure they can make us bankrupt anyway.

Thanks everyone for your comments & help

I am away till Tuesday, so have a good bank holiday everyone!

[andrew1]

tiaposy, what are your greatest concerns with all this, forget the bankruptcy trait. Pm me if you prefer. you are talking about what £2.5k in all ? - that's not worth going either bankrupt or into liquidation for.

[tiaposy]

Andrew1.

My main concern is:

The bank have now removed said overdraft so it shows on the account we are £2500.00 in the red. I have sent a letter to the bank manager, placing the account in dispute and informing him I am reclaiming the charges on the account, which add up to the same amount strangely enough!

We did not sign a new indemnity form, so I don't think they can pursue us as directors.

 

I am just not sure what tricks they will try to get us to repay the amount. I have no intention of going bankrupt, just no they are sneaky and wanted assurance I had some legal standing by putting the account into dispute

 

Thanks

[andrew1]

I favour talking to banks especially on business accounts. Do you still wish to trade through this account or are you saying you have another account which you can use -with the same bank? or another?

 

The business manager must be well aware of the charges situation. I would open a dialogue with them and say it is not in the interest of the business to have uncertainty and would he /she like to discuss the situation in the interest of your continued working relationship. The Ombudsman would not be happy if they closed the account or gave you grief over such a relatively small amount of money. I take it your business is still trading ? HAve you spoken to them at all about this with the suggestion of holding fire until this charges issue has been sorted? AS mentioned there are some strong arguments going on here for businesses on these claims because the OFT test case is about Unfair Terms in CONSUMER Contracts, and whilst it is not totally straight forward there are people getting their claims heard in courts for businesses and the bank will be well aware of this. If your charges represent the same as your overdraft what that is doing is just creating a situation where you have no o/D and you work to a nil balance. I guess cash flow's then the problem? Have you many debtors you could get to pay a little bit quicker to help out that way?

 

In my honest opinion, for the monies involved I'd just go have a chat with them and then come back here to discuss your options.

[tiaposy]

We are still trading. We have a new business account - no overdraft though!

We will not be using them again for any of our business. We have a business loan and I have sent the manager our new account details to he can arrange for the payment to come out of there.

Cash flow is a major problem, which is why we have so many charges on the account in a relatively short period of time (3 years)

I haven't spoken to him, as I don't like his attitude, plus our branch is actually over 80miles away from where we live and they wouldn't let us move to one nearer. Our old manager was fine and I could have talked to him! I will try and gain the courage to speak to him next week (we are away for a few days tomorrow), but I am sure I will have some interesting post to come back to!!

[tifo]

Limited company claims can continue and there are strong arguments for objecting to any stays the banks might try to get on court action. There are some very good , well thought through points available on this forum to include in legal action.

 

The FSA say Limited companies DO come under the waiver, in reply to my question about business accounts (mine were as a Sole Trader), if their turnover is below £1 million.

 

Business account holders

 

The waiver applies to all consumers that are eligible to ask the Financial Ombudsman Service (the Ombudsman) to look at a complaint for them. This includes:

 

* a private individual;

* a business, whose group annual turnover is less than £1 million;

*a charity, whose annual income is less than £1 million; and

*trustees of a trust, whose net asset value is less than £1 million;

 

Therefore if a business falls into the above categories, then any complaint it makes about bank charges may be affected by the waiver.

[andrew1]

.. thanks, is that so? Hmmm? I'll look deeper, but thanks.

[tifo]

if business accounts come in, next they'll be saying credit cards claims also need stays.

[andrew1]

May I take a sample of Photomans post on the business Account lets join forces thread:http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/68191-claiming-business-account-lets-36.html to clear the air with regard to Business accounts and the OFT Test case: ( Thank you PM)

 

"PHOTOMANS NOTES:

 

Note the OFT's own determination within the POC to clearly define the term "consumer" as is defined under section 3 of UTCCR.

I have highlighted it in red in the above POC, and here is the actual section from the UTCCR.

 

3. - (1) {t2} In these Regulations-

 

"consumer" means any natural person who, in contracts covered by these Regulations, is acting for purposes which are outside his trade, business or profession;

 

Note also, that this case is only concerned with the fairness of the terms as covered by the UTCCR regulations, there is NO reference to ANY common law or other precedents regards the lawfulness of the charges per se.

 

 

Thus as Business claimants ;

 

1/ As clearly defined by section 3 of the UTCCR, if the account was a Business account, set up and used for purposes of a trade, business or profession, then its' terms and conditions were not covered by the UTCCR.

 

2/ In no part of your claims is any reliance, reference or acknowledgment made to the UTCCR as a basis of claim.

 

3/ Therefore, as Business claimants, there should be no just reason to delay or stay your cases if being done so upon the grounds of awaiting the outcome of the OFT case; as the case is obviously purely concerned with the applicability of a statute that consists no part of our claims; and so the outcome ultimately will have no bearing or influence upon your case.

 

I would suggest that any Business claimants recieving a notice of a stay, and considering appealing, should perhaps include the OFT's POC as part of their appeal, or at least cite the relevant definitions from the UTCCR.

 

PM "

 

So there you have it.

[photoman]

Thanks Andrew

 

For anyone who wants to look at the actual OFT Particulars of Claim, and see for themselves the fact that it is an action they are taking PURELY with regards to "consumers" and also PURELY with regards to UTCCR99 (Which does NOT affect affect or comprise any part of a Business claimants POC) then here it is.

Note how explicit and clear it is in determining and defining its relevance to "consumer" accounts ONLY.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/PCA-particulars-of-claim.pdf

 

 

 

PM

[linz2011]

Hi

 

Sorry does this mean that Limited Business Accounts are being stayed - is it worth starting a new claim?

[andrew1]

On the contrary, Business claims are full steam ahead. The OFT have stated just that.

 

Quote"

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (UTCCRs)

 

Thank you for your email of xxxxx regarding your query. I am sorry for the delayed response.

 

I can confirm that the UTCCRs only apply to consumer bank accounts and not to business accounts. The regulations implement an EC Directive on unfair contract terms and apply to standard terms in contracts between businesses and consumers. Under the Regulations unfair terms are not binding on the consumer. They provide that a contractual term, which has not been individually negotiated, shall be regarded as unfair if contrary to the requirement of good faith it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract to the detriment of the consumer.

 

Yours sincerely"

unquote"

[jackster77]

hi was wondering if someone could give me a few pointers

 

my parents had a limited company which they have just sold - well actually what they sold was the premesis and the company name as there was no value in the actual business itself

doing a quick scan of their charges the are in the region of £25,000 and the claim is in northern ireland

I read on a previous post that if the company was dissolved then any successful claim would be paid to Gordan Brown but the company is not dissolved so if they made a sucessful claim would they get they money they were both directors in the company

the company turnover was close to £2,000,000 per year it suffered substantial losses

 

 

any tips or advise would be greatly appreiciated

[andrew1]

Hi Jackster, welcome. Bit tricky without further details. The company would be applying for the refund. The directors can stake their claim if it was shown that they had taken out a personal loan to cover the overdraft I believe. This really depends upon a number of things relating to how the business was sold and whether the bank account was closed or being continued by the new incumbants. Can you expand a bit. I take it that the company didn't get liquidated as such so how was the £25k covered in the end or during the business's life?

[jackster77]

hi there and thanks for the reply

 

the property sale has just gone through so my folks still have the business bank accounts opened in their names

 

no the company wasn't worth anything when it was sold

they raided their savings took out loans, refinanced the property and their house to keep the company going but this was to keep cash flow going not just to pay bank charges but the charges sure didn't help matters