Do I have to pay a fine if I have a parking permit?

[smj]

I parked in my local station car park this morning, and put my valid, monthly parking permit on the dashboard. When I got back, I had been given a ticket and the permit was on the floor.

The rail Byelaws made under Section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 state that:

"(3) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an Operator or an authorised person at that place."

I will be writing to them tomorrow to find out what they will do, but I have a feeling that they will say that I have to pay the fine. However, as they can verify that I have already paid the appropriate charge, there does not seem to be any provision for them to issue me with a ticket.

As I have paid a charge and the parking provider (APCOA) has a record of it, are they obliged to cancel the ticket? Any help appreciated!

[seething]

It is not a fine it's an invoice! If they want to recover this sum from

you they would have to take you to court. They most probably wont

especially as they would probably lose the case. They do not have the

same powers as the police, local authority or traffic wardens.

Furthermore their tickets should not look like parking fines (it's a CPN

not a PCN right?). If so THEY are breaking the law.

You have your permit so I would suggest you ignore them. If they harrass you for it, then go to the police. If they give the impression that you are breaking a criminal law then THAT is illegal in itself.

 

Paul Adams

 

[/url]

 

see my story here in the local paper

Express and Echo, Exeter.

[pin1onu]

Seething and OP,

 

You need to be very careful when dealing with station car parks. In some cases they are operated under the byelaws which were unified under the Transport Act 2000. As I understand it a summons under the byelaws would be to the magistrates court and not the county court. (For a copy of the byelaws click here)

 

I would contact the rail operator to find out if ACPOA are acting as their agent in this case or whether they have leased the car park. It would alter the way you deal with them.

 

OP,

 

As you have a valid permit it should be sufficient grounds for them to cancel the ticket. Make sure you send them a copy of the permit and not the original in any correspondence.

 

Can you provide further details of the ticket. What title did it use? (e.g. Penalty Charge Notice ) That can often provide clues as to the authority that the PPC (ACPOA) has. Sometimes these companies like to quote laws and byelaws as if they apply to them when in reality they don't. If you can provide a scan of the ticket (with identifying details removed) it would be helpful (failing that type up the relevant bits)

[smj]

Thanks very much for your reply. I read your article and I have to say that not enough people challenge these tickets. Once I had written to the head office I actually got a reply from the local office. They clearly had no idea what was in the first letter and requested evidence of my permit. As I keep them all. I duly sent a copy and heard no more. My further research revealed what you have said - these tickets are covered by contract law. As such, I am amazed that there has not been a rebellion on the same scale as the bank charges becuase the same law applies. The only factor here is that the rail law I quoted gives the railway company the right to something over and above the rights that APCOA have. Aside from that, some of the people they employ are the most appalling and rude morons you could ever meet. I had to apply for a permit by phone every month and frequently got the same lazy, incompetent, rude, arrogant, useless woman in their Chippenham office (you know who you are Cheryl, if you ever read this). She once answered the phone to me at 10 to 5, when the office closed at 5. She told me that everyone in that department had gone home. I said that I recognised her voice and that I bought a ticket from her every month. She hung up. When I phoned back, she had put on the answering machine saying that the office was closed. I would get fired for that sort of behaviour, where I work! I know that's a small thing, but I could reel off a whole list of small things that went to make up an appalling disregard for their customers. Having said that, some of the younger guys in that office were helpful and polite when I rarely got to speak to them. Finally, just to show that I'm not that petty, the station where I parked every day for a year did not have marked bays, only a large graveled space. They once gave a ticket to a woman I used to speak to at the station because she was not parked in a "Designated Parking Bay" - there were non! She was 7 months pregnant at the time and wrote to complain that there were no marked bays and that she could not walk far in any case. The letter they wrote back was so badly written and garbled that it was difficult to make any sense of it, so she paid the fine. I was so annoyed I offered to take the whole thing on and start a campaign but she had already paid it. So, for all that, I hope they go under!

[smj]

Thanks pin1onu! Yes, I realised that there might be some rights granted to them by the rail act, but they were so completely disorganised that once I sent in the permit I never heard any more.

In fact, they never, ever, replied - not a peep. Not even a "thanks, your ticket is cancelled". I would suggest that they boil their heads, but it seems that has been done already...

They must lose a fortune because of their incompetence. Good.

[seething]

OK SMJ, Thanks for that.

 

So let's open it up to the wider population.

 

Has anybody been taken to court when involved with a parking dispute at a station? and was it a CPN (Civil Penalty Notice) ie 'an invoice' or a PCN (the fiendish 'Parking Charge Notice')?

 

Paul Adams

aka 'seething'

 

 

 

see my story here in the local paper

Express and Echo, Exeter.

[materofvirii]

i am in the midst of a PCN argument which may end up in court, keep you posted.