Some clarification please

[diskmandave]

conniff, i'ld strongly reccommend getting in touch with your local Trading Standards now:

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

Link ^^

 

You can do a post code search for your nearest office.

 

Especsially since what you say about the copy of the agreement, i'ld also consider writing back to them asking if they now consider the matter closed given the payments that you've made. Recorded Delivery!

 

Can you scan/post the agreement? Don't worry, if not, if it's not signed by you, or them, or even dated (rubber stamped even?!).. Have they supplied a copy of the original Terms and Conditions? Have they supplied information as to, original amount of debt, amount paid, amount still outstanding...?

 

Regardless, get in touch with Trading Standards. (Recorded Delivery!)

 

From what you say of the copy of the original agreement, it's unenforceable.

 

Best regards, Dave.

[diskmandave]

Just for clarification, and of course your peace of mind...

 

Trading Standards sent just ONE letter to Lowell Financial on my behalf and they caved in straight away!

 

See my own thread with regard to this!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/59620-diskmandave-lowell-finacial-capone.html

 

Regards, Dave.

[Conniff]

Please excuse the long delay, I had to get a scanner and learn how to use it. It's not as good as others I have seen on here but I hope it's good enough to get the required info from.

 

There is another sheet but that only has the 'Conditions' on it.

 

I have heard nothing from anyone concerning this since I received the original bank statements from NatWest.

 

 

 

 

[diskmandave]

Sorry, this will have to be short & sweet (past my bedtime!), it's not dated, it's not executed, it's clearly the customer copy...

 

Anyone else care to comment?

 

Sorry again for it being short & sweet, bank holiday weeks are bad news for multidrop drivers!

 

I'll have a proper look tommorow Conniff.

 

Regards, Dave.

[Conniff]

Thanks Dave. I don't expect instant replies so you get your deserved sleep.

[diskmandave]

I don't know what to say now Conniff, i'm not sure anyone's seen a bank comply with a CCA request by providing a copy of the customers copy that isn't in anyway executed??

 

Have they sent you a breakdown of all credits and debits to the account?

(They're supposed to)

 

I'm going to ask for some assistance, see what we can find out about that copy agreement!

 

Regards, Dave.

[Conniff]

Hi Dave

 

They sent me a full copy set of statements from the day the account was opened until it was closed.

They have only sent me a few years of payment details (which I can't lay my hands on at this very moment, I have put them somewhere safe).

[gizmo111]

Did this come from Telford? Credit management services?

[diskmandave]

What you're looking for is opening balance (£3698.32), all payments and debits made on that agreement (dated) and the current outstanding balance, they should have provided that as part of your CCA request.

 

Regards, Dave.

[PriorityOne]

Although the document that they have sent you may comply with the CCA request.... it's unexecuted, which means that it cannot be re-enforced in court. There are no signatures.

 

I assume that the overdraft that you spoke of in the beginning was a loan ? The original term was for 36 months - 3 years and the amount to be repaid was £3698.32... and this was the arrangement 14 years ago ?

 

Did the DCA send the Agreement to you ? If so, I would be inclined to send a SAR to the DCA in order to find out exactly how much has been paid on this account.... and re-claim all unlawful charges. No-one should pursue you for payment whilst an account is in dispute.... either by CCA, or by SAR.

 

[Conniff]

Hi guys. A complete summary of everything I have at present.

 

On the 6th Mar I sent an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Moorcroft and asked for a copy of

Quote With reference to the above, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this agreement.

I require a full statement of payments & balances, and a deed of assignment Unquote Anything not shown is from your standard letter template.

 

On the 16th Mar I received a reply from Moorcroft saying

Quote Thank you for your request for a signed copy of the relevant agreement under the consumer credit act.

We have forwarded your postal order to our client (National Westminster Bank Plc) who confirmed that the relevant information will be provided as quick as possible. I have therefore placed your account on hold until we receive further instruction from our client. Unquote

 

On 20th Apr I received a large brown envelope from NatWest Telford with the following letter.

Quote Please find attached a copy of your loan agreement and a schedule of arrears which is compliant under section 77 of the consumer credit act 1974.

We have attached copy statements and bank ledgers for your current account and can advise interest has been suspended on this account. However, details of interest and charges prior to the date your account were transferred to the above department are enclosed in the copy statements.

Please note the bank has a contract with Moorcroft to recovery funds on our behalf, however, we hold no deed of assignment as your accounts have not be sold to Moorcroft. Unquote

 

The statements are complete from the day the account was opened until the day the account was closed.

 

The only details of payments made are on original bank statement paper (like you receive every month) but start with the first payment on 7th Jan 2003 and end with my last payment 2nd Mar 2007.

 

There are no details of any payments made before Jan 2003 but the opening sum brought forward is 4th Oct 2002 £2,752 od.

Now that says 'overdrawn' but my statement says "13Oct 1995 balance to sheet No 116 £0.00" and sheet 116 says "balance from sheet 115 £0.00, CLOSED thank you for banking with us". So how can it be marked as od?

 

I have been looking at old stubs and the earliest I can find at the moment is a payment to Moorcroft of £25 on 1st Mar 2002 with a payment every month through to 1st Jan 03, (end of that cheque book).

I also have a statement which shows a payment to Moorcroft on 5th Dec 01.

 

I also have a payment card from Moorcroft which starts "Brought forward £5,304", (a couple of thousand more than the original debt), but this is a continuation card. There is no year stated on this card and the card is not up to date, but that hasn't worried us as I have always paid by cheque so any payments are traceable. We are looking for the card before this one and my wife has volunteered to go into the attic tomorrow.

 

Gosh, I think this is getting complicated, or is that me making it look so with poor explanations?

 

.

[PriorityOne]

Reading the above points..... my thoughts would be to write to NW (with a copy to Moorcroft), saying that no further payments will be made until they have complied with a properly executed CCA. As NW have sent you the CCA.... I am assuming that you are now dealing with them.....

 

Although they have complied with your request, there are no sigs. on the Agreement so if this is the doc. they would be relying on in court to have the debt re-enforced, it won't be good enough.

 

If you are able to work out how much has been added by NW in unlawful charges since before the account was passed over to Moorcroft, then you need to re-claim these from the balance.... in order to get a true figure for any amount still outstanding. I am concerned about the additional £2k that you say has been added somewhere along the line....

 

Hope this helps...

 

[Conniff]

Good morning all.

 

Yes Gizmo it came from Telford.

Dave - I can't find that sum anywhere.

P1 - I might have a faultering memory but I can (will) say 'That agreement was NOT made out in my presence and I have NEVER seen it before.

 

I will write to NW and Mc asking for a 'complete' set of payments made.

 

Looking at the sums in front of me. If Moorcroft say my balance was £5,304 and NW says it is now £1,527, taking one away from the other means I have paid a minimum £3,777 which, even to my addled brain is £79 more than the alleged agreement says is payable.

[PriorityOne]

In order to cover yourself further, it might be best to send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to NW.... because it will throw the account into dispute due to unlawful charges on the account and therefore, will prevent any legal action being taken against you by Moorcroft, NW or anyone else who may be acting for them.

 

See what the others say, if/when they log on later.....

 

[Conniff]

Will this SAR be a new request, do I send another £1 with it ?

[PriorityOne]

Will this S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) be a new request, do I send another £1 with it ?

 

It costs £10 for a SAR.... but it will give you all transactional data that NW holds in relation to yourself. If you are able to tot up all the charges over the years without it, then it may not be necessary... so don't do it yet .... wait until the others have looked over these last few posts.

 

By your own reckoning and from what I've read.... you should have paid it off by now....

[Conniff]

Oops sorry, yes £10.

 

The statements are complete and I can tot it all up, but that would be going back further than the six years ??

[diskmandave]

Conniff, the Subject Access Request is made under the Data Protection Act, you can can sue them for not complying properly so they generally comply, but the fee for it is £10.00.

 

It means that they have to send you absolutely everything that they hold on any type of file about you.

 

If someone could suggest the wording given the circumstances being a little different than bank/cc charges, would be grateful.

 

You've got some great help on this thread now!

 

Regards, Dave.

[PriorityOne]

If you are able to tot up all the charges yourself, then you could save yourself £10 and not bother with the SAR. The fact that charges have been added to the loan prior to six years ago should be irrelevant.

 

As I have not had to go down the route of re-claiming charges.... you need some input from someone who's more familiar with the procedure though. I am assuming that the spreadsheet would still be required ? Any thoughts out there ?

 

[Bigmac versus]

Hi there may i ask a few questions so to understand what is happened and at what stage we are at here.

The statements you have are from who?

The statements you have i assume are not from the bank account but from the DCA and as you had said you had paid them every month i wouldnt imagine there would be any charges on there for the last few years, only what may have been added when it was passed to the DCA.

 

Need to know statements are for what before you proceed?

[Conniff]

Hi Bigmac

 

The statements are from the Natwest and cover the whole of the period that the account was open.

Statement 001 **Thank you for opening this account** dated 13th Apr 1993.

Statement 115 **Thank you for banking with us** dated 18th Oct 1995

 

Both statements show a balance of zero.

[Bigmac versus]

Ok what part of uk are you from?

How much were your charges?

Did you have these statements from years ago or did you get them sent to you recently?

[Conniff]

I am English, I haven't worked out the charges yet and the statements were sent to me just recently by request.

[Bigmac versus]

Ok if you can manage to count the charges up and we will discuss this further tom evening and consider your options.

[Conniff]

I've counted up all the charges but am off to bed now as I am working tonight. If I get a long enough break and come home I will post it.