Credit Resolution Services (CRS) Extortionist!

[Crafty Kat]

CRS, who needs enemies with friends like that... I hope you guys don't mind my story and maybe giving me a bit of advice.

 

In July 2008 I signed a 12 month contract with a local gym. As most people in this thread, the Direct Debit was taken out by Harlands, which we know is the same company as CRS. However, after just over a month I developed a bad rash on those joints that touched the machines there and the only explanation for me was and still is that I had an allergic reaction to either one of their cleaning products or whatever one of the other members there was using. I had several heated discussions with the gym staff, which would get into too much details and isn't important for the CRS issue, but at the end of all of it, I got told that my membership will be cancelled, but that I can always "come back in half a year or so". Naively I did not insist on something written, cancelled my Direct Debit and forgot about the whole thing.

 

Middle of last year I received a letter from our buddies at CRS, telling me they act on behalf of Harlands and I owe almost £500, which is made up out of membership fees for the remaining 10 months and tracing fees, as I dared to move house without informing a gym I thought I did not have a contract with anymore. I wasted some time by calling CRS and dealing with a very snotty guy there, but me being me (and German!!), he did not get me to panic and do anything stupid. I put the phone down on him after a bit and got in touch with the fitness studio. The financial director there was very apologetic and confirmed that my contract should have been properly cancelled, but his colleague made a mistake and only set it "on hold for 6 months". After that Harlands tried taking money from my account again, but were blocked due to the cancelled direct debit. Anthony, the gym guy, confirmed that he will completely cancel my membership now, with effect from September 2008. He even got in touch with both Harlands and CRS in order to resolve the issue, but no luck. They only told him that I could pay a settlement fee of £147, but there would be no way that I would not have to pay anything. Anthony then wrote me an email, confirming that the membership is cancelled with effect 09/08 and that I don't owe any money...

 

Can you believe that? CRS dares to tell the gym that held the contract in the first place that they cannot release me from anything? How crazy is that?

 

Anyway, I found this forum months ago and went off to send the letter that I am not acknowledging any debts and so on to CRS, including the request for a copy of my contract. I made sure I included some details of the cancellation BY THE GYM and even attached the emails from Anthony. For another month or so I did not hear anything, but then all of a sudden they sent me another letter, with a copy of the agreement, more of their standard threats and a "draft" for the court proceedings... blablabla.

 

I know moved house again and don't even consider giving them my new address... they have not tried calling me since I requested that any contact can only be in written. Is there anything I should do now? I am quite sure they do know that they don't stand a chance in court, as I have proof about the cancellation, but what if they find out that I don't live at my old address anymore and don't get any of their communication? I am not on the electoral roll at the new property yet and probably won't be for a while, as I need to sort issues with Equifax first (they haven't updated my details from the move 1 year ago yet, Experian did though). Will CRS maybe think that if I don't get their letters, I won't get court letters and they get away with a CCJ as I won't defend myself? What do you guys think I should do?

 

Many thanks,

Kat

[sparkles55]

Hi....I'm hoping someone can help me. This is my first post

 

I joined Lifestyle Fitness June 09. I used the gym for a few months then suffered from an accident at work causing me to go on the sick and unable to use the gym. I had very little wage coming in so cancelled my direct debit in November (christmas coming and all that). Anyway, stupidly i ignored the letters from the gym. I now have a new letter from CRS which holds a copy of a very legal looking document (claim form). It is just a draft but they say if i do not contact them by tomorrow then it will be forwarded to the courts. My membership left to pay is £390, then i have £40 administration fees and £127.75 debt recovery charges. I really don't know what to do.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated. I know i have been stupid.

[Chazbang]

Hi everyone!

 

I have just signed up to CAG especially for this thread! I have been paying CRS for nearly 3 years!

After reading this thread today I rang them and asked for a breakdown of the money I originally owed them, it went like this...

 

£418.15 owed:

 

• £270 owed for defaulted gym membership
  
• £40 charge from Harlands for debt recovery
  
• £108 charge from CRS
  

I currently have £86 left to pay and I have told them I will not be paying another penny to them. The man I spoke to was so RUDE! He kept interrupting me and didn't want to let me speak. I told him to button it! I asked to speak to a manager and he said he was the manager!

 

I have now cancelled my direct debit with my bank and will be writing one of your excellent letters tonight to tell them the account is to be closed with immediate effect!

 

[jamesbrown8808]

@Kat: Do you have a prescription for the rash or anything that proves you got a rash? If yes your case is solid and write them a letter saying you do not want them to contact you unless through YOUR LOCAL British Court. They will not take you to court so simply ignore them. It is not your responsibilty to let them know anything as you already have in writing that your debt is settled with the gym.

 

@sparkles55: Firstly.. don't panic they wont take you to court...! Did you write to your gym at all explaining your circumstances? or did you just cancel the DD and not say anything to the gym?

 

@chazbang: 150 in debt collection is more than 50% of the actual debt and would certainly be "disproportionate" if you ever went to court. I can't believe you have actually been paying them for 3 years... right on you to cancel the DD!!

[Crafty Kat]

@Kat: Do you have a prescription for the rash or anything that proves you got a rash? If yes your case is solid and write them a letter saying you do not want them to contact you unless through YOUR LOCAL British Court. They will not take you to court so simply ignore them. It is not your responsibilty to let them know anything as you already have in writing that your debt is settled with the gym.

Thank you very much for your reply, which came just in time with a new letter I received from those monkeys on Saturday. Not a word from taking me to court, just that they had to "trace me" (which they most certainly did by receiving a letter back having someone written "try xxx address" on it) and their usual "you have a default on your credit record, which can be rectified by paying" bulls**t.

 

To answer your question, I do not have a prescription or anything, as the doctor just told me to get an over the counter steroid cream like HC45 and that he cannot tell what exactly I am allergic to, as he would have to test me against every single cleaning product used in the studio, every single detergent, fabric conditioner, cream, deodorant and whatnot used by every single person training there... you name it. What I have though is the email from the fitness studio saying

I can confirm that we agreed to back date your cancelation to September 2008 and that there are no fees owed.

 

I do think too that my case is pretty solid and will take your advice. I will today write a letter to inform them that due to the backdated cancellation I do still not acknowledge any debt, to request halt of all communication as long as it is not through my local court, make sure they know that I take them court myself if they keep on harassing me (and that I see all communication outside court as harassment) and just to make sure they don't even try, will include this from the library:

 

"Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384

. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance."

 

From then on I will start to completely ignore them, as I am sure that they won't take me to court... they know they don't stand a chance, I suppose.

Does that sound ok?

[jamesbrown8808]

Craftycat... the fact that you went to the doctor means they will have a record of it so you are covered from that point. Your plan and case are solid. I did exactly the same and have not heard from them since. Cheers

[Chazbang]

 

I can't believe I've been paying them for 3 years either! They tried to take the DD but luckily I cancelled it in time and they didn't get a penny.

 

Am sending the letter today!

[Danny27404]

I fought my wife's case with them and after 2 weeks i managed to not pay any fees or DD setup fees.

 

Quick break down of the argument.

 

Gym Membership had 5 sections missing it went 1 2 3 4 10 11 12.... section 4 was the payments part and refferd to section 5 for missing payments and exceptional cercumstanses where the contract could be terminated early, which was not on the membership agreement so i pointed that out and the whole agreement was a big farce and would never stand up in court ( Gamble). But the debt was owed regardless so they debt outstanding -fees will be paid at £5 a month. (could have paid more but it took 3 yrs for this to surface on the wife forgetting about it, and the abuse and letters recieved)

 

First response from them was No get lost so i wrote them a letter saying that they were been taken to court and they would recieve details within 14 days of the Date to attend. And that i will be supplying recordings of the telephone converstations and all letters etc.

 

Response Back.... Your £5 offer is accepted and no charges will be made.

 

Common sense is the law and i stood my ground.

[Kokoschka]

I've just had big problems with Xpect Health and Fitness and CRS. I think most of what I went through has already been covered on this forum. My problem was giving and paying for one calender months notice instead of one complete calender month. I couldn't get a definition of the difference btween the two and was being legally advised that they are the same - ie. the date of one month to the same date of the following month.

 

People to get advice from are:

 

Fitness Industry Assoc. FIA - fitness industry code of conduct may be able to help you and many gyms are signed up to this.

Office of Fair Trading - look up unfair terms in the fitmess industry

Consumer Direct - they will help and keep in feed into Trading Standards

Community Legal Services will also give you advice

 

I've had a running battle for 6 months now with CRS, I think I am about to pay up but only because I have a life and a local newspaper has agreed to run a story which will probably cost the gym £1000s in lost revenue.

 

I found CRS a bit 'thick' to deal with. They never answer questions just keep repeating the same old same old.

 

I told them as I didn't beleive the debt was owed, not to contact me again until they could provide me with proof of the debt, and that I wanted the following within 10 working days.

 

A copy of the original credit agreement

Statement of account

The original copy of MY terms and conditions

Executed deed of assignment from the 'gym' to CRS.

 

I did make an offer to settle at far below what they were asking but the sent my cheque back. Their latest offer is almost the same as the offer I made before Christmas, which is a third of their original demand

 

 

If things go to court and you have made an offer to settle or repay at a level you can afford then the courts are more likely to find in your favour, but the idea is to keep in contact. They will extend dates if you contact them by phone.

 

If you make a payment - make it under protest and send it recored delivery - this leaves the gym open to a counter claim from you.

 

I shall never join another gym - I'll get a dog to keep fit! I'm more likely to stick with it!

[Gettingrippedoff]

I told CRS I would pay £5 a month, but I would not be paying any charges at all. I paid £5 a month for 5 months, then decided I wasnt paying any more that was in June 2009. I havent paid any more to them since that date and I havent heard from them since!

 

Good luck everyone

[jamesbrown8808]

They wont take you to court either... don't pay up!

 

Edit: and they can't hold your data for ever so tell them they have a set term to take you to court otherwise they have to remove all personal information they have on you! (data protection act)

[blueball]

I have been playing letter tennis with CRS since last December. I have offered to pay both the gym directly (they will not speak to me) and CRS the original amount from the gym membership but have refused to pay any charges. They have refused this offer and have sent me a letter with another additional £100 charge with a threat of someone coming round to my house. Ha!

 

The amount outstanding from my membership is only £161 and they now are trying to claim over £350! Surely no court will rule in their favour when I have offered to pay £161 in full!

 

Has anyone actually been taken to court? What should my next move be? This forum has been a wealth of information and advice so thanks to all in advance!

[jamesbrown8808]

No one has ever been taken to court. Send them a letter saying as is your right you don't want anyone to visit you and they should stop all communication unless passed through a british court of justice and that if they don't you will report them to the OFT and sue them for harassment. Also point out that their letters and charges go against OFT guidelines on debt collection.

[blueball]

Thanks very much jamesbrown8808. I will do just that!

 

Blueball

[Uzwala]

Hi all,

 

Great posts, really helpful – I’ve got a similar problem with CRS, they just wont leave me alone!

 

In late 2008 I joined Golds Gym on a minimum 6 months contract. When I was due to move abroad in June 2009, I hand-delivered a letter to the gym which they accepted of me cancelling my membership since I was moving abroad with my husband. I had made all payments due for the 6 months up to when I cancelled my direct debit.

 

When I returned to the UK, I was shocked to find these letters from CRS, the latest one sent in January 2010 telling me they were taking me to court for £445 for unpaid fees and charging me their costs for the debt recovery too! I was so angry! I wrote a letter to CRS following advice on this forum that they are in breach of OFT guidance and therefore I was not going to deal with them, and would be writing to GG directly. I wrote to GG explaining the situation and enclosing a copy of my cancellation letter to them – I have not heard back from them.

 

I did receive a reply letter from CRS straightaway stating that “it is written in the contract that you will be liable for cost of recovery if your account is in default for over 30 days” and that the OFT are aware of their charges and have not informed them that they are in breach. They don’t seem to understand that the contract itself is in breach of OFT guidelines as it has been drafted in such a way that contradicts the guidelines and therefore it is unlikely a court would uphold the clause on debt recovery.

 

They concluded the letter with a “generous offer” that I can pay a reduced sum of £280 to settle the matter – or more perversely, that if I agreed to pay the whole £445, I would be entitled to 6 months’ use of the gym – that’s the last thing I’d ever want to do!

 

I would like to know if anyone has actually ever been taken to court by CRS? I’m unsure as to whether to just ignore them (which many of you have suggested), or write back to explain myself further – or will this further exacerbate the issue?

 

Any advice would be much appreciated - thanks!

[alternative-answer]

CRS made the same threats to me, however I sent them a letter asking for proof of claim on various points none which they could answer. As yet and it's been well over a year; NO COURT ACTION and letters have stopped. Something interesting for you to consider:

Authority

Authority

We are familiar with those who consider they are “the Authority”, "in Authority", or work for “the Authorities”, etc. What tends to be forgotten is that, by its nature, and by its very definition, ‘authority’ must be EXTENDED in order for it to have any effect.

It must be GIVEN. It CANNOT be just ‘taken’ or ‘assumed’ because that is not what it is. ('Authority' taken via the barrel of a gun' is a CRIME of TRESPASS against the SOVEREIGNTY of an individual).

For the simple reason that a Human operates by free will. In order to operate in accordance with ‘directives’ from some ‘authority’ (i.e. 'someone else'), then the Human’s free will MUST be accepting the will of that someone else. This can only occur if the Human decides to accept the will of someone else.

Accepting and abiding by the will of someone else is the same as saying that the Human EXTENDS AUTHORITY to that someone else.

But, if a Human has free will, then that Human does not need to extend authority to anyone else.

And, if a Human does not have free will, then that Human is a robot. (And, therefore, is not Human after all).

What has happened is the attitude of “safety in numbers” has become ingrained into the public psyche. As in “If I do what everyone else does, then I won’t be picked upon … they’ll leave me alone”.

Which works fine … up to a point. It works fine until they start picking on you ... even though you’ve only ever “done what everyone else does”.

And they start picking on you … and everyone else … because you have extended them the authority to do so … you gave them an inch and (by their very natures) they took a mile.

And that’s the risk that is ALWAYS run when a Human EXTENDS authority to any other Human.

Taking that mile is done very slowly & very carefully. (David Icke calls it “The Totalitarian Tiptoe”).

 

 

 

Permissions

If 'permission' can be granted for any act, then that act must be, fundamentally, LAWFUL. (Otherwise 'permission' could never be granted).

If an act is fundamentally LAWFUL, then a SOVEREIGN individual (not a child) has no need to ask (i.e. 'beg') for permission.

After all, if all are equal, what right does Person "A" have to grant or refuse 'permission' to Person "B"?

Are certain individuals going to claim that they are "more responsible" than others - in order to give them the right to make such assessments? How do they define "more responsible"? In 1215 it was realised that only a Jury of 12 could make judgments upon others, and that those judgments had to be collective ... because no single individual can lay any single-handed claim to that Right.

If any individual claims this Assessment Right for themselves, then the correct description of that individual is: "arrogant hypocrite". Anyone who makes a claim to grant or refuse 'permission' must have a Personality Disorder. The only exception is in the case of children. A parent must be able to grant or deny requests from their children.

[jamesbrown8808]

Ignore them... no they wont take you to court... they just play on the hopes you will get scared and pay up

[Uzwala]

thanks for your replies, I think I will take your advice and ignore them!

[alternative-answer]

NOBODY has an authority in your affairs unless you grant them the authority. If you enter in agreements and grant authority then you have a contractual obligation. Also where is the debt or loss incurred by said DCA and if they have purchased the debt from anyone then they have a contract with whoever they purchased it from. Your account will have be zero'd with the original creditor so it has been remedied and their books balanced.

[Bear1978]

Has anyone got any updates on this?

 

I'm in a boringly similar position to many who've posted - I cancelled my Gold's membership, they didn't record that I'd done so, a year later I start getting demands from CRS for £700, fake court papers, etc. I've been back and forth with them via letter, now I'm at the point where I'm about to write and say 'contact me only via a court' etc....you all know the gist.

 

Just wondering; have any of you actually been taking to court? Everyone seems to be saying not, but I'd like to hear if anyone has an update?

[1927]

I have been having problems with these people for two years.

 

Theyw ere chasing my partner for money. I paid the outsnding fees, but told them they weren't getting a penny in fees. Numerous letters back and forth, they claimed the debt wasn't covered by CCA. I requested copy of original contract which stated clearly that it was covered by CCA. I asked them to make all future contact with myself rather than my partner, as is a right under the CCA, and to stop harrassing my prtner. They have continued to address all contact to her!!

 

I have told them numerous times of my rights and their obligations under CCA ande xplined why I consider there charges to be unreasonable, they juts ignore these letters sent Registered as if I had never asked the questions. They do not provide any information requested etc. They kept sendinbg those draft court documents and in the end I said fair enough take us to court, then it all stopped.

 

I had heard nothing form them for over 12 months and assumed that it had all gone away then this morning my partner gets a letter saying that they are sending someone round to collect the money!!!!!!

[Bear1978]

Thanks, '27. I'm grateful for your response, and I sympathize. I think I read the earlier part of your story further up the thread.

 

I've been playing letter tennis with them since Christmas. Originally, naively, I replied as if they would actually care about the substance of my argument. It soon became obvious (and the stories in this thread confirm it) that they're aware they're basically trying to steal from people - claiming money with isn't owed in the first place - and they just don't care.

 

Oh, I'm not the best person to ask, but there's advice (here and elsewhere) about how to legally insist they don't come to your house. Please do look into it.

 

Good luck, and keep updating.

[Bear1978]

Just wanted to bump this to see if anyone's got an update about their progress with CRS?

[natasha261]

Hi

(this is my first post ;-)

 

Last year i signed up for ladyzone gym, which my nan paid for (she passed me the money and the DD was set up from my bank). In June last year i had a car accident which prevented me from using the gym an my nan died in Aug last year, which then cut short my funding.

I told the gym what had happened and explained that i could not afford £42 a month as im a student and a single parent. The gym seemed nice to my face.

 

Then came the letter from CRS askin for the rest of the money, on the 26th feb 2010 i recieved a letter and attatched is a court claims form, which scared me a little so i put it in the cupboard hoping nothing would come of it.

Then yesterday i recieved another letter saying in big bold red text "A FIELD COLLECTOR FROM face2face contact WILL BE INSTRUCTED TO VISIT YOUR PROPERTY TO COLLECT PAYMENT FROM YOU"

Then they have stated cost of employing face2face which is £141.44!!!!

 

What is my best first move, i really need to sort this out i cant have people knocking at the door and taking my things, i have majour problems with the post man coming as my son has autism and people scare him!!

 

Thank you xx

[ODC]

Face to Face are a bunch of self employed collectors who have NO LEGAL POWER WHATSOEVER.

 

Should one of these wretches arrive at your door tell the to go away (in words of your own choosing )

 

Should they fail to go away then phone the police and report a breach of the peace.

 

Remember they are just nobodies and have no right to be on your property. There is a letter you could send to CRS but personally I wouldnt waste the stamp.

 

These clowns cannot enter your property nor can they remove any goods. If they did so they would be committing a criminal offence