Credit Resolution Services (CRS) Extortionist!

[stratford1]

i joined hartlands gym in february i feel out of work in april i went straight to the gym and told them i could not afford to pay the 30 pounds a month. they sent me a letter saying that i could pay £130 and the contract would be ended i said i could not afford to pay at once so they said i could pay £5 per month. then 2 weeks later i got a letter from crs saying i now had to pay £350 because i had broken the contract. i phoned hartland but they said that crs was dealing with it now and they would not talk to me. letters have been going backwards and forward for months with no resolution. i am now at university and no longer at home where i took out the gym membership, but they are sending letter to my home address staying they are going to start court action if the money is not paid, my mum is getting quite worried she is the one that keep sending the letter back. what should i do.

[jamesbrown8808]

They will not take you to court.

Just write them a letter stating the debt was settled with heartlands prior to them passing on your details and that they are to halt all communication both written and verbal as is your right under British law.

[loveyoco]

I am in similar situation as "cutoff". my friend signed a contract which is a 3 years contract with easy gym in May 2009, but due to the visa problem he has to back to China in June 2009. before he left, he phoned easy gym to cancel the contract which he has been told he can cancel the contract within three month time. he also send them the copy of the flight ticket. after his leaving, Ｉnever stop receiving the letter from harland group and CRS (he using my address at that time), now the CRS phoned me and leave me lots of messages （Ｉkeeping his mobile contract so that people got my number) that's really bother my life. because my friend has his business here, so he still will back in UK, he worried about this will effect his credit history, but staff in harland group said this is a memebership contract won't be any influnence, now the case is been passed to CRS, is that means will effect him? he send several proof from China, harland people said they will close the file for him, but CRS people are very crazy, keep calling me......

is anyone there can tell me is that will effect him? shall Ｉjust leave CRS alone?

thanks so much!

[DJ_Markstar]

I've just received another letter from CRS stating that they are gonna take me to court etc. I've already paid them the amount I owed, but I haven't paid a penny of the fees.

 

There is a section on my original contract with Playfootball.net that says "If you fail to pay any amount due under this agreement, for a period of more than thirty days, then we may pass the debt to a third company for collection. All costs incurred in employing the third party will be borne by you"

 

For the underlined part: is this their attempt at legalising charges by CRS? Does it make CRS charges legal?

 

I want to write a letter to CRS stating that I've paid them £151.80, and not their fee of £60, and I want to make sure I'm legally in the right before going ahead. Any help would be much appreciated! I can scan and post the contract if needs be...

[Beanbear]

DJ_Markstar, the Office of Fair Trading has published guidance on the collection of debts, the complete guidance is here -> http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

Read through the guidance, they are trying to subvert the guidance by including a contractual provision to pass debt collection to a third party however I am assuming that the contract did not state the amount of fee that might be levied?

 

I would expect that the key points to argue on would therefore be section 2.9 and the examples in section 2.10. Refer specifically to section 2.10(C/D/E).

 

You can probably argue that the fee is disproportionate to the claim amount (sub section e), is unreasonable as they have not specified a breakdown of the charge (sub section d, are thier costs reflective of actual expenses for the recovery) and did the contract inform you of expected charges (sub section c although this only realy applied to credit agreements).

 

Please bear in mind however that this is only OFT guidance and is not a legally binding statute.

 

On another issue everyone on this thread shold check your credit reference files. I have been having the standard 'fun' and games with these jokers (refer to my earlier post) and have just discovered that they 'trace' people by performing unsolicited credit reference searches with Experian. I have contacted the ICO regarding this matter and they have informed me that this may contravene the Data Protection Act. The ICO has advised that I contact Harlands and demand that they remove the search as they did not seek prior consent. If Harlands fails to comply then I can lodge a complaint with the ICO. Everyone should do this as unsolicited credit searches can affect your overall credit rating.

[DJ_Markstar]

Hi Beanbear,

 

firstly, you are right that no specific amount was stated in the original contract. Is this important? I personally feel that

 

Secondly, after reading the OFT guidelines and re-reading the latest letter they have sent me, I believe they are breaching guidelines on psychological harrassment.

 

Here is the letter, I have retyped it to omit any personal information, but other than that it is word for word identical to the letter sent to me...

 

"

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT - COURT ACTION IS DUE TO COMMENCE AGAINST YOU

 

A County Court Claim has been prepared by our legal department. A COPY is enclosed to demonstrate the seriousness of this matter, although this has currently NOT been sent to the Court.

 

 

Unless you contact us by (date) to settle the balance or discuss an alternative solution, this claim will be issued through the courts

 

You have willingly signed a legally binding contract. It is therefore likely the court will order you to repay the balance plus costs and interest. The effect of proceeding further could include:

 

• Substantially increased debt
  
• A Court hearing in front of a judge
  
• A County Court Judgment (CCJ) being publicly logged
  
• Sever impact on both yourself and other family members credit rating
  

The Judgment can then be enforced via various Court Orders to ensure the debt is paid. A few of these are listed below:

 

• Direct monthly payments being deducted from your wages
  
• Seizure and Sale of your Goods and Property
  
• Removal of the balance from your bank account
  
• Balance deducted from the sale proceeds of your home
  

We want to negotiate a settlement of this debt before legal action is needed, but you can only prevent this from happening by calling us immediately on (phone number)

 

"

 

This letter must be breaking part 2.5 of the OFT guidelines too? surely bolded, underlined and red letters using such serious language would be deemed oppressive?

 

So in summary, I am going to write them a letter, stating that I feel they are contravening points 2.5, 2.9 and 2.10. If I post the letter that I am sending them, can someone have a look over it for me? I have no significant legal knowledge unfortunately.

[DJ_Markstar]

Would this letter be OK to send them? Have I missed anything?

 

Any help would be awesome.

 

"

Credit Resolution Services

43 Perrymount Road, Haywards Heath,

West Sussex,

RH16 3BN

Re: CRS Ref No: xxxxxx

Dear Credit Resolution Services,

Further to your letter dated 16th November 2009 I request you to clarify for me, in writing, whether or not you own this debt, as this has not been previously made clear to me.

Furthermore, I reiterate my position that no basis for the amount of charges was laid down in the original credit agreement with Playfootball.net and are therefore not lawful.

 

To clarify matters,

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE REMAINING DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE IT AS REQUIRED BY OBLIGATION, WHETHER YOU ARE THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR OR NOT, UNDER SECTION 189 OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974.

 

I understand that you may commence legal action against me. Any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested and consider this matter to be in dispute. As part of my defence in any court action you will be asked to justify your charges giving a complete breakdown of the costs. If you do indeed choose to take me to court, then it must be at my local court, due to private and family obligations.

 

Furthermore, I will be making a counter claim against CRS for misrepresenting your charges as a debt I am liable for in the absence of any contractual obligation on my part. I draw your attention to the OFT guidelines on debt collection:

 

Charging for debt collection

 

2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly.

 

2.10 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

a. Claiming collection costs from a debtor in the absence of express contractual or other legal provision.

 

b. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay collection charges when this is not the case, for example, when there is no contractual provision

 

d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs

 

e. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments,

or to increase payments when they are unable to do so.

g. making threatening statements or gestures or taking actions which

suggest harm to debtors.

 

I consider your charge of £60 to be disproportionate to the main debt and not based on actual and necessary costs.

 

I look forward to receiving your summons. Your statement that ‘It is therefore likely the court will order you to repaythe balance plus costs and interest’ is purely speculative on your part and therefore was written solely with the purpose of intimidating me into paying this disputed charge.

 

 

Indeed I believe you may be in breach of the:

 

 

Malicious Communications Act 1988. This deals with the sending of letters or articles for the purpose of causing 'distress or anxiety'. A person found guilty can be fined in the magistrate’s court. To prosecute successfully the letter or article sent would have to convey:

 

1. a message which is indecent or grossly offensive;
   
2. a threat; or
   
3. information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender.
   

I believe you cannot know whether or not your claim will be successful until a Judge decides, so you have sent me information which is inherently false and thus constitutes a threat. If you continue to harass me in this manner I will be forced to take action under the Protection from Harassment act 1997.

 

I am considering whether to lodge a formal complaint with the Office of Fair Trading reporting your unfair practices and calling into question your fitness to be licensed as a debt collection agency.

 

"

[jamesbrown8808]

Looks good DJ_Markstar.... but I wouldn't worry too much.. no one has ever reported CRS taking them to court

[EalingStrangler]

I think these CRS guys must go on fishing expeditions. A year or two ago they started to harass me about a Gold's Gym membership they claimed I hadn't canceled and on which I allegedly owed about a grand. In fact, I had canceled the membership - over a year previously - and still had my carbon-copy of the signed, counter-signed and dated cancellation form. I called Gold's Gym head office to double-check if they had screwed something up in their systems... but they hadn't. Their records also showed that my membership was canceled with nothing outstanding. CRS, quite literally, invented this debt. It was totally fictitious. I mailed them copies of everything via registered signed-for, and called them a couple of days afterwards to make sure they understood. At this point, they refused to talk to me unless I gave them information like my date of birth. So I told them to go and do one. I haven't heard from them since.

[DJ_Markstar]

I wonder if you can't send them a fat bill for your time that they've wasted? Either way, have you complained to OFT? I'm sure they'd like to hear about something as sinister as inventing debt. I think it's atrocious.

[blueball]

Hi all

 

I have received a letter from CRS with reference to a gym membership. What will happen if I just completely ignore it and give them no acknowledgement of any communication? Has anyone been taken to court or is it an empty threat?

 

These posts have been really helpful by the way!

[jamesbrown8808]

No one has ever been taken to court.

 

Dont ignore them, write them one letter with the following

-I acknowledge no debt

-Halt all communication unless passed through a british court (cease and desist)

- should you chose to take me to court it must be done at my local court.

- Any action that you chose to undertake outside of a court is at your own expense. (as they will probably try to send someone to your door.. not to worry if it gets to that just post back here and ill point you to the corresponding letter to stop them from sending someone round)

 

That's it... and once you have sent that by registered mail you can ignore everything

[sassy626]

@ JamesBrown8808

 

I've just had the 50% offer from them . Oh dear - looks like my chances for accepting this expire today. Interestingly they state that the gym contract was reviewed and approved by the OFT.... TBH that does concern me a bit

 

They also state that I did not object to the 3 month term at the time - so what? Their knowledge of the law could fit on a postage stamp.

 

Anyway - have you heard anything further from them since you got your 50% offer? Did you respond in any way?

[jamesbrown8808]

HAHAHA "approved by the OFT" that's really a good one! £5 says they will be sending that round to everyone now. What is more interesting is if the OFT did not approve it... you then send it to the OFT... boy oh boy does that sound like carnage for CRS.

 

Na.. I stopped replying to them ages ago... bunch of crazy people. Never heard anything since. I am expecting at some point they will start writing again at which point I will take them to court. Enough is really enough, plus I have nothing to lose.

 

Edit: "The contract was approved" ... does not mean your case!! Plus if the OFT says you cant charge for debt collection I find it hard to believe they would turn around and approve contracts that say we would have to pay for it.

[stratford1]

i have now received a letter from crs with my postal order i sent them for a copy of my credit agreement they have now said as this is a membership agreement they do not have to have the debt assigned to them, until such time that they take legal action. what are they on about now.

[alternative-answer]

i have now received a letter from crs with my postal order i sent them for a copy of my credit agreement they have now said as this is a membership agreement they do not have to have the debt assigned to them, until such time that they take legal action. what are they on about now.

Take the letter, shred it and ignore it, CRS can do absolutely nothing about your debt, they are a bunch of chancers and play on ignorance and fear. Arm yourself with the correct knowledge and you will see that anyone acting as a 3rd party has NO jurisdiction over you unless you enter into an agreement with them.

[cutoff]

Had another letter from these clowns yesterday and to be honest am getting a little bored of their silly games. The letter they sent me was identical to the one i recieved about 6 weeks ago with a county court form attached. Do they not remember sending me this one ???? They must be getting short of templates !! The letter i sent back today has asked them not to contact me anymore unless through a British court, we'll see what happens !!

[dcwinter]

Hi Guys,

 

I could be heading for a first here - CRS have actually bought my alleged debt! Which means I am now waiting for court I think...

 

DC

[cutoff]

How much is your alleged debt ?

[TH3_WiLL]

Hi all,

 

Received 2 letter from our friends at CRS last month, the first stating that as per my membership agreement, point 4 "Irrespective of attendance or change in personal circumstances, this agreement cannot be cancelled." The fact that the gym informed me this was not so at signing and subsequently cancelled it finally in February make that point irrelevant. They said "The Gym agreed the reduced figure with you as purely a goodwill gesture, and can be revoked", now surely such a term constitutes an unfair agreement, on the first and secondly the gym had already agreed to and cancelled the membership so what are these people on about.

 

Today I received the second letter, with another DRAFT county court claim form, where on the front it says the value is £185 TOTAL, but on the back they put an amount that would amount to the full 12 months membership minus the 3 months I paid plus a severely inflated debt collection fee of £171.50 plus tracing fee of £35.

 

Should I bother responding to them as this is surely now classed as harassment and infringing upon my basic human rights, when I previously sent a letter asking them to cease and desist. What amount can I counter claim for as my time and effort invested in proving they are wrong, and undue stress caused, should they really wish to take this to court.

 

As previously stated in this thread this all stems from an alleged debt of £25 I assumed I owed as I have given 30 days notice when I signed up and then followed up on it the month I was leaving 15 days before my next instalment was due of £50 which seems to be from when they are saying I cancelled contrary to me informing them on sign up, but after reading further in my T&C I did not need to give any notice of cancellation.

Edited January 2, 2010 by TH3_WiLL

[jamesbrown8808]

dcwinter, how have they proved the purchase of your debt?

[dcwinter]

dcwinter, how have they proved the purchase of your debt?

 

They sent the official 'deed of assignment' (I think that's what it's called - it's with the solicitor now).

 

Mind yuo, they only bought it after 18 months of chasing me - which means that it was harrassment until they bought it doesn't it?

 

Also, they sent me letters despite my insistance that they contact my solicitor only...

 

Might issue a counter-claim. Any ideas what to do?

[dcwinter]

Just a quick one - can anyone try asking them if they can pay by instalments? I asked once and they said that they charge £5 a month to do so....

 

I offered £5 a month before they said that!

[jamesbrown8808]

Can I just advise you to include the following:

 

You told them to take you to court ages ago... they chose not to do so DESPITE having already filled out the court form (normally they send it out as their second or third letter). This shows that they were prepared to take you to court and they deliberately stalled to increase the interest due. You will therefore argue any interest claimed blabla.

 

Don't sweat it... I am willing to bet they won't take you to court... but please do keep us updated on occurrences.

 

Edit: Yes it proves they did not have the right to contact you regarding the debt, thus they were harassing you. When they take you to court you receive a letter to which you can reply and file a counter claim. So just wait until they take you to court (which will never happen) at which point you will be able to claim more than they will on your debt

Edited January 10, 2010 by jamesbrown8808

[stratford1]

my son as gone off to uni and not payed his fee for a gym he did inform them he was going to uni and they said he had to pay them £130 he said he didn't have that and could he pay monthly they said he could they would set up a payment plan for him then the next thing we knew he had crs on his back for the money wrote to the gym but they now say that its in the hand of crs. this as been going on since last may with letters going back and forth i now have a letter saying Face2Face are going to come round and collect the debt which they now say is £510 i phoned crs informing them my son does not live here anymore and i dont know where he is they said they will put it on hold till 1st feb, what should i do