Can O/H charge contractual interest on this..??

[millymollymoo]

Hi this may sound a little confusing...

 

My O/H has a Nat West account. 3 years ago it was £50 short of overdraft amount of £250.

 

NW then put through penalty charges which made it go over the £250 authorised ODraft.

 

Since then it has consisted of pure charges and unauth. interest. The figure to date is amazing:o !

 

O/H and Natwest disagreed on settlement figure (before all this OFT statement)...so the debt is just increasing.

 

Right, as the debt is not paid at all and therefor still Nat Wests money increasing... can my O/H claim contractual interest on all this in aclaim or just the charges and interest they have applied to be refunded (with NO Contractual!)

 

As I understand it, if the debt was paid back today they WOULD demand the whole lot outstanding anyway and then if paid the amount to claim would be his and not their money.. (I hope that makes sense!!!)

 

So the basics are debt not paid. Can he claim Contractual interest and then have the debt paid off??????

 

Milly:)

[millymollymoo]

P.S and then keep the extra CI for himself:D or:(

 

Milly X

[Sexyeyes83]

Im watching this thread with interest (no pun intended!) as im in the same situation.

 

It isnt the easiest thing to explain, but this is how I worded it in another post:

 

Money Withdrawn since 2001 - £170.

This left me overdrawn by £42.79

 

Money Paid in since being overdrawn - £494.69

 

Total Charges £555

Total Interest Charged £95.01

 

Currently left overdrawn due to charges and interest - £312.92

 

If I was claiming back normally, I would ask for £650.01 (charges and interest) and then Nationwide would take their £312.92 out of that once its all gone through.

 

I want to claim contractual interest, but what part do I claim it on as im overdrawn by £312.02 (made up of charges and interest). Am I right in thinking I cant claim contractual interest on this as it isnt my money?

 

Fingers crossed someone can point us in the right direction!

[thereshope!]

Hi guys:)

 

I am also in the same position as you.

 

I am looking into something at the moment and I will get back to you when I have a clearer picture of what our options might be.

 

 

 

 

 

Hope

x

[Glenn UK]

And im still none the wiser as i said in sexyeyes post, ill pm one of the mods and see if they know/have a view.

 

Glenn

[lucid]

Teachnically I'd imagine you can't claim contractual interest on the part that they owe themselves. But we actually added contractual to the lot and we also had unauthorised overdrafts due entirely to their own charges. Hopefully our claims will be drawing to a close soon so we will see how that goes, but I imagine eventually (probably after a lot of bargaining) they will pay up. However, if it did go to court then, in my opinion, the court probably wouldn't award the contractual interest on the sum that was never your money.

 

Lucid

[thereshope!]

Hey Glen:)

 

 

That would be great if you could have a word.

 

I imagine there are a lot of us out there in a similar position. Any guidance would be fantastic !

 

I have discussed my situation at length with a well trusted CAG member and I am going to mull over it tonight.

 

They have been in a similar situation and did get a pay out,but that's not to say the rest of us will have a similar outcome .

 

I think i'm swaying to the "what have I got to lose" side at the moment and thinking I may as well just get the pre lim and charges sent off.

 

Even if the amount claimed is deducted from the debt that's still a big bonus in my book.

 

Might not be actually 'there' in a large paper wad but its all good !

 

 

Thanks

 

Hope

[millymollymoo]

Teachnically I'd imagine you can't claim contractual interest on the part that they owe themselves. But we actually added contractual to the lot and we also had unauthorised overdrafts due entirely to their own charges. Hopefully our claims will be drawing to a close soon so we will see how that goes, but I imagine eventually(probably after a lot of bargaining) they will pay up. However, if it did go to court then, in my opinion, the court probably wouldn't award the contractual interest on the sum that was never your money.

 

Lucid

 

 

Hi there thats the reason I asked because at the mo it is technicaly theirs. However ,they want the debt repaid and if O/H did,then it would become O/H's right to claim Contractual. (If that makes sense!)

 

Thanks for all your replies. We will get to the bottom of this. me thinks;)

[bill-k]

Hi Ladies, and thanks for the invite Molly. I can't resist a good hen-party, but I see Glenn got his slippers under the bed, already, bless 'im !! He's fast, that guy !!

 

Cards on the table, here - I have been PM-ing with Hope in this vein, as I have had a (slightly) similar kerfuffle with MBNA recently. Thanks for respect for anonymity, Hope - but I guess we all have to check each other's laundry out here, in order to help each other.

 

Glenn's contacts will be well worth the wait, I suspect, but FWIW I'll detail my stuff so it can be thrown in the mix. This is the PM I recently sent Hope:-

 

Hi Hope - Yes, I believe doubting what we're doing is part of making an intelligent effort, as opposed to going in with all guns blazing. Glenn can seem a bit abrupt sometimes, but he's a straight talker, and that's what we need sometimes !! His first words to me when I stumbled in here last year (all guns blazing) were something like "Are you really as gung-ho as your post suggests ?" !!!

 

I see what you mean about the NW charges. In a similar (but not identical) way, I have recently had a success with MBNA. I took out an IVA in 2005, which effectively meant I went bankrupt. My MBNA credit card was amongst the creditors, so they didn't get paid the balance on the card, and will simply get a small percentage of that when the IVA has completed. However, I claimed back penalty charges from them, which they kindly "refunded" by crediting my closed account with them. This INCLUDED the contractual interest I was claiming. Now, this appears to be all that you want NW to do in your case, so I believe you have every chance of being able to get your NW account entirely paid off, by getting BOTH the charges AND the contractual interest paid into the account.

 

Please take this as no more than an uneducated suggestion, though. It worked for me, but I can't offer any guarantees. I see no reason why you shouldn't at least give it a try, though. If you do, then I believe that the key to getting success is to give them the impression that you want them to pay you the money directly (don't state that outright - just give the impression). Let them think they are being really clever by "thwarting" your claim to the money by paying it all into your NW account. Once they've done that, get them to confirm that the account is now in credit, and you no longer owe themm anything. And withdraw any actual credit that there might be in there, too !!! That'll be your bonus. :grin:

 

As an apochryphal sequel to my MBNA tale - I wrote to them explaining that my IVA - and their agreement to it - were lawfully obtained, whereas their penalty charges were not. I insisted on repayment by cheque, suggesting that their misappropriation of my refund into a closed account would not look very good in court. I received full payment by cheque just before Christmas !! Of course, it didn't clear until afterwards, but it was nice to know it was there !!

 

Hope that helps, and gives you some hope, Hope !!!

 

Bill.

 

(Message ends)

 

I decided not to edit it, as I think it's ALL relevant - including the plug for dear old Glenn !! Of course, there's a bit more detail, but that's the gist of it. Bear in mind this was only a few hundred quid, and a bigger figger might elicit a different response. But it's a pointer, at least, I reckon.

 

HTH,

 

Bill.

[Sexyeyes83]

Well, I can only say that yes the OP and sexy eyes are correct.

 

You can only claim contractual interest on charges you have actually PAID and you can only charge the contractual interest from the date you PAID the charge.

 

Thank you

 

Understand what your saying, but left me confused on what I can claim back in regards to contractual interest.

 

Ive never cleared my overdraft which now stands at -£312 even though ive paid in over £400. This was due to me going £42 overdrawn.

 

Is there a simple way, (or any way) of working out what I can claim on.

[millymollymoo]

Hi I did think that this was a bit strange as the money is theirs, until repaid. LIKE NEVER;) I have not a clue which spready to use then as O/H would like this debt repaid as it is GROWING monthly (the bank were supposed to freeze it 18 months ago and he has a letter saying that, however they did'nt do it!) Maybe the one before court interest with no interest for O/H .

 

Milly X:)

[millymollymoo]

Oh just to put another spanner in the works!!!

 

Can he do two claims against Nat West at the same time.?

 

The reason:

1. one part of the claim up until sept 2003 is charges taken out of his money that was paid in regularly which also would clear any charges and he went back in credit then .........

2. the rest is unpaid growing charges since the he exceeded his OD again in October 2003 making it go over the £250.(this on aseperate claim with NO interest added?

 

Can you claim two seperate claims at the same time on seperate spreadys and prelims to the same bank?????

 

Milly X

[Mindzai]

Well, I can only say that yes the OP and sexy eyes are correct.

 

You can only claim contractual interest on charges you have actually PAID and you can only charge the contractual interest from the date you PAID the charge.

 

 

If the charge has been debited from your account then you HAVE paid it. Just because the money isn't in the account to cover the charge is irrelevant. The amount has been debited from you account and has therefore effectively been paid by you as you will have to settle the account at some point.

 

The bank have chosen to lend you the money to pay their charges, they have not paid it out of their own money as such.

[Glenn UK]

Mindzai

 

Thats an interesting view and part of the reason i wasnt sure whether they could clam interest on charges not yet paid.

 

My feeling was not, but i do agree with your logic, but the counter argument is that if the bank chooses to withdraw the charges then there is no debt to pay.

 

However, if for some reason they decide to pay the claim and not remove the debt to your account then i agree with you.

 

 

i suppose the best logic to use is that until they withdraw the charges from the overdraft then claim contractual interest since theres no guarantee they will. It would seem daft for them not to, but then again we are talking about banks here.

 

If ive misunderstood then be happy to have it clarified.

 

GLenn

[Mindzai]

...the counter argument is that if the bank chooses to withdraw the charges then there is no debt to pay...

 

Yes that would be my reasoning, but they are not withdrawing charges, they are repaying them. I guess they may at some point try claiming that the charges are being withdrawn, but I can't see how they would get away with this. In my mind the balance of your current account is effectively your money as at some point you will have to pay it.

[Glenn UK]

Yes that would be my reasoning, but they are not withdrawing charges, they are repaying them. I guess they may at some point try claiming that the charges are being withdrawn, but I can't see how they would get away with this. In my mind the balance of your current account is effectively your money as at some point you will have to pay it.

 

 

I seem to recall this issue came up in one of the mercantile claims but in respect of interest being paid.

 

The bank argued that since the debt was in fact only on paper, then the defendant hadn't paid any interest (bear in mind this was specific to a claim so i don't know all the circumstances) until the bank forced them to pay money into the account to give a zero or positive balance.

 

Its difficult to be precise since some accounts will be in debit but the charges and interest arising from that debit balance may have been divorced in time from the claim.

 

this makes the issue unclear in my mind, and unless we had a forensic accountant on board (hello, anyone there?) it would be pretty difficult to work out for the lay person exactly what amount of the balance could be attributed to charges which the claimant had not in fact paid.

 

Unlike credit cards where the T&Cs set out the method by which payments are allocated the balances/charges.

 

I could of course be wrong i respect Karne's view and that was mine initially but the more i think about it the more difficult the issue becomes.

 

Where there is a simple case with only charges arising from a single default with subsequent payments into the account its easy to work out what is down to charges.

 

With other claims it becomes much more difficult to resolve.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[Mindzai]

I agree it's certainly not a straightforward issue. In my mind we are justified and entitled to claim it, and as with many aspects of our claims, in order to defend the issue the bank would have to go to court.

[Glenn UK]

I agree it's certainly not a straightforward issue. In my mind we are justified and entitled to claim it, and as with many aspects of our claims, in order to defend the issue the bank would have to go to court.

 

indeed, i have an AQ hearing with abbey on the 7th Feb, so ill find out then what the court thinks about the situation with contractual interest.

 

Even if abbey don't turn up it'll will get discussed no doubt

[millymollymoo]

Hi mindzai and GlennUk:)

 

I am very confused now. :confused:Should he or shouldnt claim on the lot or two seperate claims to be safe(if allowed!)

 

Has anybody claimed on charges remaining unpaid in their bank account and successfully claimed contractual or stat or even no interest?

 

Thanks

 

Milly X

[Mindzai]

Hi mindzai and GlennUk:)

 

I am very confused now. :confused:Should he or shouldnt claim on the lot or two seperate claims to be safe(if allowed!)

 

Has anybody claimed on charges remaining unpaid in their bank account and successfully claimed contractual or stat or even no interest?

 

Thanks

 

Milly X

 

I have claimed on charges that have been debited from my account (and remain 'unpaid'). The court date is Feb 7th so we will see if they pay up before or not, but to be honest I expect them to. To get the chance to argue about the interest they would have to go to court.

 

It isnt something I'm qualified to advise upon though. My own feeling is that you are entitled to claim it, but its essentially down to you to decide unless someone can come up with an absolute and definitive answer.

[millymollymoo]

Thanks Mindzai, I guess you are right each individual has to decide for themselves.

Good luck with your claim.. I am rooting for you:D

 

I

[Mindzai]

This is an interesting post that may clear up the issue to some extent:

 

Clickety-click

 

Section 15 A(2) of the Theft (Amendment) Act 1996 defines a 'money transfer' as follows:

 

(2) A money transfer occurs when-

 

(a) a debit is made to one account,

(b) a credit is made to another, and

© the credit results from the debit or the debit results from the credit.

 

Thus, because the bank put a debit on your account and they will have put a corrresponding credit somewhere else (double entry accounting is a wonderful thing), under this definition they have transferred money from your account whether you have 'paid' it or not.

[tamadus]

Just to really cloud the waters my view is that if the bank apply a charge to your account then in theory they expect it to be paid at some point in time. They will certainly apply contractual interest to it if they can. Therefore we should be able to claim the charge plus any interest applied to it.

 

If you exceed the agreed overdraft level purely because of charges and interest on them then they are both reclaimable.

 

The viewpoint that it is only a paper exercise as the money hasn't actually be paid reflects into the claim, the claim itself will also be a paper exercise as no money (unless there is a surplus) will actually change hands.

 

The same thing happens when a claim is made against a credit card account where a repayment is credited back to the account rather than a cheque being raised. Its reduces the outstanding balance on paper only.

[millymollymoo]

Thankyou both:D I think that is sufficient enough evidence for me.I have now decided to claim for my O/H the whole lot WITH contactual interest .

 

Another thread I read last night 2nd claim with Natwest or something like that! The person successfully got Contractual Interest paid in the same sort of situation as my O/H.

As we both each have a relevant claim with credit cards we will concentrate on them at the mo and then do NatWest when they are nearly concluded.

 

Will be preparing the spreadsheet now and amend the date for when the claim is ready to be submitted.

 

Milly x:)

[millymollymoo]

Here is the thread, however I do not know how to do the link!!!

 

2nd claim with NatWest (contract interest)

 

Milly X