Airline Conspiracy against fatties?

[simonmcl]

I am a rather rotund, ok fat, guy who travels alot on planes and because of arthritis problems in my knees I always book a seat with extra legroom. Not a problem when checking in etc. The problem lies when I board the plane. I am always asked to move away from the emergency exits as they need someone sitting there who 'can help in case of an emergency' I have frequently asked staff to provide the confirmation that this is a clause of sitting in a largerleg room seat and they say its CAA regulations. The CAA cannot provide me with the text which shows that at all, despite numerous requests.

 

I have queried with cabin crew about the fact that they cite these rules but have frequently put old and frail people and even people in wheelchairs in these seats. When asked how these people can help 'in case of emergency' I get a blank expression and they walk away. Does anyone have a copy of these 'rules' issued by the CAA cos I would love to see them. I am sorry to say but I am a bit of a coward and if the plane did ditch I would be the first out of the damn thing so I see that the only thing preventing me from sitting in these seats is my weight. Why?

 

No such rulings in the States where there are alot more larger people..

[Guest Lueeze]

I dont know about particular rules but the CAA website has a list of published articles and guidelines.

 

You may have seen this already...

 

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=114&pagetype=65&applicationid=5

[Bookworm]

If the airlines let frail or disabled sit on those seats, I would cause major grief! There is a very valid (albeit subjective, I grant you) reason for putting reasonably fit/younger people, and it's that in case of emergency, they can turn and reach and remove the emergency door fast, and get out of the way fast so as not to block the exit for others.

 

One of my many hats was (hi, Loula, this is where our paths cross!) organising medical repatriations on behalf of the travel insurance companies, amongst other things (I could tell you some stories, let me tell you...), and we used to have major problems bringing back broken legs, as they need 3 seats (elevation/swelling), and if those were by emergency exits, the airlines would not allow them on... As for recovering heart attacks, well...nuff said.

 

Anyway, you wanted the CAA guidleines, here they are:

Seating – allocation

 

The CAA requires that UK airlines have procedures to ensure that passengers are seated where, in the event that an emergency evacuation is required, they may best assist and not hinder evacuation from the aeroplane.

Only those passengers who appear reasonably fit, strong and able to assist the rapid evacuation of the aeroplane in an emergency should be allocated seats which permit direct access to emergency exits. Persons of reduced mobility should not be allocated seats where their presence could impede the crew in their duties, obstruct access to emergency equipment or impede the emergency evacuation of the aeroplane.

The following categories of passengers are among those who should not be allocated to, or directed to, seats which permit direct access to emergency exits :

• Passengers suffering from obvious physical, or mental handicap to the extent that they would have difficulty in moving quickly if asked to do so.
  
• Passengers who are either substantially blind or substantially deaf to the extent that they might not readily assimilate printed or verbal instructions given.
  
• Passengers who because of age or sickness are so frail that they have difficult in moving quickly.
  
• Passengers who are so obese that they would have difficulty in moving quickly or reaching and passing through the adjacent emergency exit.
  
• Children (whether accompanied or not) and infants.
  
• Deportees or prisoners in custody.
  
• Passengers with animals.

Further information on the subject of the seating restrictions for persons of reduced mobility can be obtained from the UK Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee on:

http://www.dptac.gov.uk/pubs/seatrestrict

[Don Quioxte]

Now I'm no expert here (tho I here a user by the name of Overdrawn has some very relevant industry experience should you wish to PM)...

 

Based on many a lonely night (prior to discovering the Bank Action Group) watching Air Crash Investigation on Discovery Channel (repeated on National Geographic Channel on a morosely frequent basis) that the chances of a person surviving an airline impact with ground or sea is fairly unlikely, and certainly not down to an overweight guy sitting in over-wing window seat 17A....

 

...I am more than happy Simon for you to occupy that seat.. assuming you do not scream or gesticulate wildly during the ensuing chaos.

Please PM me and let me know who you are a frequent flyer with. Perhaps we can sit together and spend our last, dying moments, celebrating the wealth of knowledge that is the Consumer Action Group.

 

Best.

[Overdrawn]

I have queried with cabin crew about the fact that they cite these rules but have frequently put old and frail people and even people in wheelchairs in these seats. When asked how these people can help 'in case of emergency' I get a blank expression and they walk away.

 

You have had replies as to why you the crew will not allow you to occupy the exit row seats and I trust that the info that has been provided in the previous posts has answered your questions.

If you witness the crew seating "old and frail people and even people in wheelchairs in these seats" this needs to be brought to the attention of the cabin crew manager at base so that the matter can be looked into and the appropraite action/re-training procedures can be implemented with the crew members concerned. Speaking as a member of cabin crew myself, all I can say is that if you receive "blank expressions" and they "walk away" I suggest that you ask to speak to the purser/number one and raise your concerns with him/her. Always follow up with a letter to head office on both saftey and customer service issues.

Happy flying

[Don Quioxte]

Speaking as a member of cabin crew myself, all I can say is that if you receive "blank expressions" and they "walk away" I suggest that you ask to speak to the purser/number one and raise your concerns with him/her. Always follow up with a letter to head office on both saftey and customer service issues.

Happy flying

 

See Simon!!, what did I tell you...

 

Suggest we both PM Overdrawn and ensure we transfer our Air Miles to her airline..

[Overdrawn]

I have frequently asked staff to provide the confirmation that this is a clause of sitting in a largerleg room seat and they say its CAA regulations.

 

There are a lot of rules and regulations which cabin crew must adhere to and these can be found in the ever so huge cabin crew SEP (safety and emergency procedures) handbook. There will be one on the aircraft or a member of crew will have one. The crew member could very easily show you this section (time permitting )

[Don Quioxte]

Suggest we both PM Overdrawn and ensure we transfer our Air Miles to her airline..

 

Crikey simon... I'm not so sure..

 

God forbid we don't pay full attention to Overdrawn's pre-flight emergency briefing...

 

Your seat would be the least of our concerns...

[Overdrawn]

God forbid we don't pay full attention to Overdrawn's pre-flight emergency briefing...

 

Your seat would be the least of our concerns...

 

You better believe it baby

[StudentInDebt]

Based on many a lonely night (prior to discovering the Bank Action Group) watching Air Crash Investigation on Discovery Channel (repeated on National Geographic Channel on a morosely frequent basis) that the chances of a person surviving an airline impact with ground or sea is fairly unlikely, and certainly not down to an overweight guy sitting in over-wing window seat 17A....

 

In that case why don't we lobby the CAA to allow airlines to do away with emergency exits, escape slides, life-jackets, seatbelts, emergency equipment and remove the costly safety aspect of training for Cabin Crew? Afterall, by this reckoning, all this equipment is useless and costing us consumers as the airlines have to pass on the cost of carrying the equipment (in fuel burn) and the cost of maintaining it (£50 to service a lifejacket every year or so).

 

The reason for insisting that so called "able-bodied" persons sit at these overwing exits has nothing to do with emergencies that occur whilst airborne (or discrimination against sectors of the public) and everything do to with unplanned situations that may occur during the take-off or landing phases. In such situations an evacuation may be ordered with effectively no warning and those sitting in the exit rows then assume the reponsibility of opening that exit and then getting out of the aircraft quickly. The reason that you don't see the incidents that have resulted in an full evacuation with no injury on such "documentaries" as Air Crash Investigation is that with no deaths, the producers can't spend 40 minutes of a 50 minute programme describing how each passenger died horribly whilst screaming/writing letters to their loved one/holding hands across the aisle with their wife of 50 years.

 

I have witnessed less than able-bodied persons being sat at exit rows, usually through the wonders on on-line check-in, and on every occasion they were moved by the cabin crew (despite vociferous protests).

 

Safety is no accident.

[pieterclassens]

Couldnt have said it better myself SID.

 

At the end of the day although it may sound like a bunch of you know what, the regulations regarding SEP are there for everyones benefit. They are not there to pick on certain minorities.

 

The emergency exit story goes further though. There are exclusions to those people who are allowed to sit near an emergency exit and as far as I am aware all follow the basic acronym of CODPIE. That is Children, Obese, Disabled, Prisoners/Deportees, Infirm, Elderly/Frail, and others who may cause an obstruction themselves or anything they might need to function (walking canes, bags, extension seat bealts etc).

 

These restrictions might sound harsh but as I said above they are there for safety reasons and have the interests of all passengers in mind. As said by someone else, if the crew are not adhering to this policy then bring it up with the crew. If nothing is done make a note of their name and address it with the airline. Perhaps the crew in question need to revisit their training centre. It is not acceptable for them to be apathetic about safety.

 

Hope this answers your queries. Any further questions about safety relates matters or airline matters in general please let me know.

[Rich44]

I think its more of a conspiracy against people in general who need more than 6" of leg room

[mailmannz]

The thing that really gets me is that 99% of the women hired as cabin crew look like they would have trouble opening a can of coke! Most cabin crews seem so small and petite (ie no muscle tone what so ever) that Id just love to see them trying to move someone of even average weight!).

 

Mailman

[Rich44]

They are really secret Domin a trix (had to split it up to get past stupid filter) and they have secret ways to make you move verrrrrrrrrry quickly

[pieterclassens]

Unfortunately I have to agree wholeheartedly and is a subject that has been debated ad nauseam.

 

All cabin crew have to pass a medical/fitness check when they start ..... and then ...... thats it!

 

I believe as do some others that, just like pilots, cabin crew should face an annual check to ensure their continuing fitness to do the job!

 

Anyways all IMHO of course!

[mailmannz]

One suspects that based on the size of cabin crew that they are hired more for their looks than their ability to move fatties should something happen!

 

Mailman

[StudentInDebt]

If you'd ever had to open an airliner door or remove a plug type overwing exit you'd be surprised what those small, petite, untoned people can move given the right motivation.

[mailmannz]

There are various laws of physics that are against short people with no muscle tone who have been hired for their looks, namely "Mailmans law of shorties" which states that all things being equal, a short person cannot lift an object of any particular weight higher than a taller person.

 

Sorry...Mailmans Law is absolute!

 

Mailman

[simonmcl]

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