Parking Eye ANPR PCN Claimform - Barnet hospital EN5 3DJ

[ajjm]

It has been filed. Huge thanks! Just sorting another donation to this site too!

[FTMDave]

The legal position is, that if someone files a defence late, but before the claimant has entered judgement, that the defence is allowed.

Therefore you ought to be alright.

[ajjm]

Just received this from the hospital trust parking team:

Dear 

Many thanks for your email and for explaining the circumstances at the time and please accept our sincere apologies for the delay in responding.

 It does appear that the parking charge dates back to the 26 July, so I have needed to contact Parkingeye as I am not sure at what stage the charge is now at.  If the case has escalated to legal proceedings, I would be unable to cancel the charge at this stage.

The charge was issued as it does appear to have been issued for insufficient payment.  As the car parks at the Barnet hospital site are controlled by ANPR cameras, payment for parking is upon exit only as the machines calculate the payment required to cover the parking.

Once I have received Parkingeyes response, I will contact you as to whether it was possible to cancel or reduce.

I have responded:

Dear Dee,

Thank you so much for your response.

 

The payment was not on exit (had it been so, it would have been possible to pay the correct amount rather than guess). The payment machine was used for the time believed to be appropriate. 

 

I am very grateful that you will try to cancel this charge, if you possibly can. I do hope that Parking Eye will take your request for that seriously and the attempt to pay the correct amount in good faith. 

 

I do hope it can be arranged for payment on exit from this carpark in future, as this situation is very stressful. 

 

Many thanks for your help

 

Definitely worth knowing for future reference that appealing to the relevant hospital trust department is worthwhile (even if they don't know how each car park operates in their trust).

Clearly, as already advised on here in post #21, PE won't cancel as at court stage but hopefully good for the defence that the hospital would consider cancelling or reducing the charge. 

Hmm had a response from the parking dept - below with my response. The plot thickens....

Dear

I can confirm that parking at all our sites is set up as pay on exit as the machines calculate the amount owed as with all ANPR camera car parks. 

When drivers approach the machines, the machine will try and calculate the parking time up until that point as it will work on the basis that payment is being made. 

For example, if drivers approach the machines when they arrive, the machine may correctly inform them there that’s nothing owing, as they have not parked long enough for charging to commence.  

It’s just a machine and its only programmed to calculate parking.  

There are signs that do advise drivers that parking is on exit.

 As soon as I hear back from Parkingeye, I will contact you again with their response.

My reply:

 Hi Dee

I must say that is very confusing! I am not sure how one would pay the wrong amount if payment was on exit.

 

The driver remembers paying at a machine by credit card - hence the proof of payment on the cc statement.

Is it possible that the payment system has recently been changed at Barnet?

 

If the driver is incorrect then are you suggesting that the machine may be incorrectly programmed and the source of the problem?

 

Thanks again for responding. 

[ajjm]

Update:

1. Received an acknowledgement of our defence from the HM Courts and Tribunal service dated 13/12/23 and saying PE have been served with a copy and have 28 days to deceide whether to proceed.

2. Received a follow up from hospital parking team with cheeky response from PE:

Parkingeye have now feed back to me and have confirmed that payment was made on arrival and the driver only paid for 1 hour, but stayed longer.  For this reason, the parking charge notice was generated by the ANPR camera system for insufficient payment.

Parkingeye have also advised that the “PCN has gone to default so at this stage there is nothing we can do as the court have ruled in our favour”.  Unfortunately, if this matter has gone to court, we would be unable to take any further action.

3. Have responded to the hospital parking team:

Thank you for following this up. 

The court have not ruled in favour of PE - this is a misleading account of the situation from them to you. PE have made a county court claim which I plan to defend. PE will know this as they will have received my defence and have the option of not proceeding with the claim. I hope that your potential wish to cancel this charge will assist them in coming to such a resolution. 

Your latest email does confirm to me that that payment at this car park had to be made on arrival and there was no option to pay on exit, as is recommended by the government guidance. I would be grateful for your continued support with this. 

Best wishes,

Edited December 21, 2023 by ajjm

[FTMDave]

Quick - check the status of the claim on MCOL.

[ajjm]

Last entry on Claim History says 'defence received'. Anywhere else to look?

[FTMDave]

Relief time!  I was worried for a moment that PE weren't lying and that the court really had ruled in default before your late defence arrived.

I bet their bod saw "no defence" a few days ago and and just jumped to conclusions.  Well done for keeping on with the hospital.

[dx100uk]

date? 12th dec?

nowhere else thats ok.

did you get an ack email or letter from the court?

the claimant should get 28 days (+5 service) to respond IF they want...else it gets autostayed.

but realistically thats 2mths before you start cheering it is..

dx

 

 

[ajjm]

Yes we got a physical letter dated 13 Dec. I hope all the bank holidays count in the 28 days!

[dx100uk]

nope only 1 extra day over xmas.

but thats immaterial

northants bulk were only a week or 2 ago just processing mail from october!

i would not start cheering until atleast 2 mths from defence filing date that it might be autostayed

[ajjm]

Happy New Year all.

Today we received the PE notice to proceed with their reply to the defence, dated 21/12/23

Attached are the 43 pages enclosed with this notice. I will try to get some photos of how the parking signage looks at the hospital in the dark over the next week. I know that it is very poorly lit there at night.

Your continued help is much appreciated.

 

2023-12-21 PE reply to defence.pdf

[dx100uk]

yours is not the next move

but that exactly like the WS twaddle they send out...mostly meaningless twaddle.

as advised 

watch MCOL to see if it states DQ N180's have been sent out.

if it passes 2mts...start cheering.

dx

 

[FTMDave]

22 hours ago, ajjm said:

 I will try to get some photos of how the parking signage looks at the hospital in the dark over the next week. I know that it is very poorly lit there at night.

That would be superb.

[ajjm]

The N180 from PE arrived today. They are clearly keen to press ahead. Copy attached

PE N180 Jan 24.pdf

[dx100uk]

sent to intimidate and harass cause i bet mcol doesnt even say the court has sent them out yet...

std practice for PE and many PPC's to do this. doesnt mean anything. regarding the claim and if they are going to progress it.

dx

[ajjm]

Thank you. Yes I did check MCOL, as advised, and nothing on there as yet.

[ajjm]

Just received the attached settlement offer from PE.

Also took a trip to the car park.

Took photos of all the signs I could see.

Looking at the paperwork from PE I didn’t see any of Sign type 4a (PE docs in post #61)  I doubt they are actually there.

That one states additional car parking time can be purchased at any time.

I did see on the pay by phone the option to pay on exit but the driver saw the pay by phone sign and, in haste to see their mother in A&E and the doctor, did not notice that - which is in much smaller type.

Bearing in mind it was very late at night and dark and signs are quite high up.

Will post photos in following post to show contrast, although even PEs pictures show this discrepancy on their print outs.

Of course, in real life the sign are much less clear. 

PE settlement offer Jan 24.pdf

 

Photos attached, as referenced in previous post.

 

hospital car park pix.pdf

[honeybee13]

That sounds a bit desperate on their part.

Thank you for the extra information, please wait to see what the guys think.

HB

[dx100uk]

the PE letter is not their std one they send begging for settlement like before

they are offering to drop all fees and simple pay the £70@ PCN.

something very wrong then.

they'll discontinue this before the hearing fee date i bet!!

[FTMDave]

We've seen this before with PE hospital cases when the hospital put pressure on PE to settle.

I can't think of any reason why PE would suddenly accept £70 instead of £205 save for the hospital pushing them.

It's decision time by your partner: pay £70 and the matter goes away; or continue to fight them.  If the latter we will of course help all the way.

[ajjm]

We think we should continue to fight this.

It seems unreasonable to pay £70 for this slight overstay and I’m as sure as I can be that in their pack of documents is a sign that either isn’t there or is well hidden.

I took pics of all the signs I could see, from entering the carpark and wandering around it.

I realise there’s no guarantee, but I would like opinions on whether fighting it is worth a shout. 

[Nicky Boy]

CAG have an 85% success rate helping users who actually get to the court process. The15% is mainly down to user's mistakes or failing to engage with the forum. There's very occasional judge lottery... making bad decisions.

Take a look through our success sub forum.

[ajjm]

Hi all,

 We have now received the N180 dated 18/1/24 along with info re mediation - all attached. It needs a response by 5 Feb but we are away 28/1/- 4/2. All advice gratefully received, as ever.

 

court N180 to claimant.pdf

[dx100uk]

thats from the court advising what they have sent to the claimant.

if mcol doesnt say yours has been sent out......nothing for you to do

 

[ajjm]

 Checked MCOL and it just says ‘DQ sent to you 18/1/24’.

these are for the claimant to answer.

Interesting that this is so unclear! 

Huge thanks as always 

I think I may now be a bit confused as, rereading the letter, it does appear that this form does need to be filled in by both parties.

I had an email that dx100uk suggested it is completed but I can’t see this post actually on this forum now.

It suggested a link to get help to complete it.

I’ll check again tomorrow