NCP PCN - Wrong reg - Gatwick drop off

[GreenBadge]

Can anyone give me a template or a pointer for referencing legislation/code of practice for a NTK that was outside the 14 days, please.  Or do I simply appeal on the basis it "was issued outside the 14 days" without the need for legal reference. I don't want to make a daft mistake on an open goal.

It was Gatwick airport drop off.

'Incident' was late June and NTK issued early August.  I'm being deliberately vague.

Driver had actually paid but used the wrong reg (2 vehicles available). They have offered a £15 goodwill gesture - but we're not paying twice.  If the appeal was based on the wrong reg being used, I anticipate being told it was driver error and the PCN stands.

 

Thank you

 

[FTMDave]

Gatwick drop off is well known to us.

NCP - because it will be NCP - can issue their invoices after 4 days, 14 days, 24 days, 34 days or 1,444 days like any private company.  That is not a ground of appeal.  It's perfectly lawful.

What they cannot do if they haven't respected the 14 days is use Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act to transfer liability from the driver to the keeper .

Courts consider inputting the wrong registration, when payment has been made, as "de minimis" AKA "the law does not deal with trivialities".

All this puts you in a great position legally.  But don't think for a minute that there is a magic way to make the ticket go away, you'll have to be in it for the long haul.

[GreenBadge]

Thank you for your reply.  Should I just pay the £15 and put it down as a tax on stupidity?

[brassnecked]

That is up to yourself, they can be seen off but as DX says be prepared for a long haul, it depends how you personally feel about HCP and its fleecing ways. Its up to you whether you want to pay.

[Nicky Boy]

Depends on your principles.

As Dave has already hinted, IF the fleecers tried court, you are in a very good position legally to bat them away.

However,  it'll take some time to get there and you'll have half of the amazon forest landing on your front doormat in the form of "scary" letters.

Pay, and it will go away,  or ignore and hope they aren't stupid enough to do court... your choice.

Did you out yourself as the driver when you appealed and got the £15 offer?

[GreenBadge]

Thank you, all.

No, Nicky. I didn't.  I haven't been in touch with them so far.  The NTK arrived yesterday.

I'm going to pay it and then argue the toss about the fiver that I did pay in June.  If they won't agree to refund it, I'll get a chargeback from my bank.  That makes it a net loss of a tenner.  Annoying but it's only a tenner and to save all the aggro, I'll just put it to bed.

I'm down to one vehicle now so there won't be a repeat performance.

Thanks again.

 

[brassnecked]

You likrly will get nowhere with that once you pay they aren't interested and have already moved on top a fresh victim.  But if you feel lucky its up to you.

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

 

[Nicky Boy]

And I  still don't understand where the 15 quid goodwill gesture originated?

[brassnecked]

The questionnaire might enlighten us regarding any appeal. please complete it.

[FTMDave]

On Moaning Crusader's thread they mention "the £15 reduced charge".

Edited August 12, 2023 by FTMDave
Typo

[Nicky Boy]

My point is, depending how the goodwill gesture was worded, it may well be an out and out admission that the original fee was paid.

If so, that's a slamdunk in any action the fleecers might contemplate

And because the OP wants a quick resolution, it may be worth an early snotty letter pointing it out?

[brassnecked]

Yes they might have found the transaction but are too greedy to cancel completely  agree Nicky Boy with a early snotty letter.

[GreenBadge]

Nicky, the goodwill gesture was because "it was the first time I had failed to pay" - or similar. 

They had no idea the fee was paid for another vehicle, so as much as I'd like to think it was an act of greed, there is no connection to me via that vehicle beyond insurance.

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by GreenBadge

[Nicky Boy]

So, have you paid it, or do you want to fight it? You originally asked if we had a template letter, or pointing at rules on the 14 day limit to issue a NTK.

Protection of Freedom 2012 act is the legislation. The fleecers own ATA code of practice also mention it.

However, as already mentioned, appealing is invariably a waste of time and you could inadvertantly also throw away your POFA 2012 protection. (It isn't a simple 14 day "time limit").

If you want help to fight the charge, fill in the sticky that dx pointed to in post number 8.

I will say that if the team are to help, you'll have to be far more engaged with the thread than you have been so far.

There's no magic button to just make it all go away... except just caving and coughing up the cash.

[GreenBadge]

Apologies for my absence.  Tough week.

I have paid the £15.  It boils my blood but I just can't be dragged down by this. I've got too much else going on.  If it was more than £15, I might have made a fight of it.  I do appreciate everybody's help.  Thank you, all.

That said, I have done the questionnaire.

I'm very careful where I park and how I drive to avoid PCNs and MTVs.  I'm annoyed with myself that I used the wrong reg.

I haven't scanned the PCN as it's paid and done. 

The wording for the bit about the 15 quid reads "As this is the first contravention which this vehicle has incurred at Gatwick Airport (which is correct) in the drop off zone ... as a gesture of goodwill Gatwick Airport have discounted the parking charge to £15 if paid within 14 days"

I haven't had a PCN for a long, long time but I do keep on top of the rules and tricks these dogs pull to snare to people.  I thought this would be a simple appeal based on being 'out of time' and wanted to get it right.  Appears to be more complicated and I can't justify the aggro for £15.

Anyway, thanks again everybody.

 

1 Date of the infringement      26.6.23

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 4.8.23
 

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s

 

3 Date received 11th August, I think
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? very close photos of reg no. Nothing that shows the vehicle at the scene.
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
 

7 Who is the parking company? NCP

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Gatwick N terminal drop off.

[Nicky Boy]

Totally understandable.

Good luck for the future and don't forget to refer others here if they have similar problems.

[Nicky Boy]

BTW,

hope you did a chargeback on your card. After all, the vehicle you paid for didn't actually use the car park...