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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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Highview/DCB(L) ANPR PCN Claimform - Catford Island Retail Park London SE6


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opps 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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My fault I'm afraid, it was me who suggested the SAR and I forgot to add to include I.D.

So you need to write back to the fleecers and restart the process with something like -

Dear Highview Parking,

Re: PCN no.XXXXX, vehicle registration no.XXXXX

thank you for your letter of XXXXX.

I note there was none of this great concern about proof of identification when you were sending out your demands for money.

However, I enclose a Council Tax bill as proof of identity.

I await your SAR response within one calendar month.

Yours, XXXXX

I say CT bill, but include what you want.  Usual free Certificate of Posting from the post office.  Do not fill in their carpy form which is designed to trap you into outing the driver and do not send the ten million forms of I.D. they demand.

They seem to be shirty about replying to a SAR so expect a battle.  It was an extremely bad idea to lose the original PCN.

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi Dave,

I get you, is CT bill alone enough or driver's licence too? (confirmation I was the registered keeper will not be happening cos they issued a PCN based on that)

I have the original PCN which I posted at the start of the thread, does that make a difference?

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ctax bill.. how do they know your sig or what you look like, they could be fake even.

none of their business your sig nor photo.

dx

 

 

  • I agree 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

The best thing is to send the letter drafted on Thursday, if you haven't already done so, and if the fleecers are obstructive we can cross that bridge later.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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Hello All,

I spoke to the Mrs during the week and the scammers sent me a response to the CPR - I can post it when I am settled. 

But in summary they sent me 

  • copies of the PCN (only the ones to my former address, no recent ones) - and maybe they ran out of ink as a major section of it is blank :),
  • pictures of the car park (All pictures are from 2021 except for one google image showing captured 2019.)
  • wordings on their signage

so 3 things were meant to be addressed 

 1. The contract between Highview Parking Limited and the landowner of Catford Island Retail that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name.

 2. Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

 3. Copies of the notice to driver, notice to keeper and any other correspondence from Highview Parking Limited & DCB Legal Ltd to the defendant that they intend to rely upon in court.

They probably addressed the point 3 at best.

 

 

Edited by fro
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CPR is NOT compulsory so they've sent you what they want to for now.

they WILL have to exhibit copies of everything they intend to rely upon as exhibits in their Witness statement. if they dont bottle it before then and discontinue the claim.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

So as you have the CPR you can forget about the SAR as it's not important now.

They never send proof of planning permission - because they haven't applied for planning permission.  So you can embarrass them in your WS.

They never send the contract - but as dx says they will have to in their WS.

Can you please upload the PCN and the pix?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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The point of the SAR was to get hold of the missing paperwork, but that has now turned up via CPR.

Unless you particularly want to have a row with them about all the unnecessary and laughable obstacles they put in front of you when requesting a SAR, the SAR can be forgotten about.

They really are absolute morons.  They've actually volunteered photos of their rubbish signage.  Signs in tiny writing in the stratosphere above two much more prominent signs.  I particularly love "Image Capture - June 2019".  You were there in October 2018!!!  So good of them to admit they have no proof of any signs at all being present when you were there!

I know it's five years ago, and a real long shot, but can you remember why you were there?  Were you in any particular shop, or at the McDonald's?

We could do with some help from you.

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yeah I know 🙂 some part of me wants to wind them up some more - but I will leave it.

I cannot remember why I would be there for that long and also being a Monday. I would go through Bank statements see if a find a clue

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With a well thought out WS they are mknackered image capture June 2019 as Dave says, it undermines their case as its definitely not proof that was in place previous year.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Could you please post up the whole original PCN front and back as a small part of it looks as if it does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which governs the private parking sector.

If it does not comply then only the driver is responsible for the charge and the keeper is not liable to pay the charge at all. Even if you were the driver they still have to provide some sort  of evidence  that you were driving since the Courts do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person. And of course any one of thousands of motorists are able to drive your car providing they have a valid motor insurance policy.

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Early "copy" DQ's are getting to be a regular intimidation tactic.

Imagine some poor, ignorant, John Doe getting this one... "My god!... I have to attend Court in Runcorn?!"

  • Haha 1

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello Caggers,

Does it take this long to hear back from the courts? I'm worried I may have missed something - I don't want these fleecers to win on technicalities.

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Might be a backlog you could always give thenm a call .

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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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why do you need to write/call?

just look at the claim history on mcol

have dq n180's even been sent out by the court?

copy and paste claim history here please

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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A claim was issued against you on 04/08/2023

Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 13/08/2023 at 16:39:28

Your acknowledgment of service was received on 14/08/2023 at 08:05:17

Your defence was submitted on 01/09/2023 at 10:16:14

Your defence was received on 01/09/2023 at 12:05:16

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Good news.

So the court has done nothing since defence stage.

As Nick said -

On 06/10/2023 at 13:10, Nicky Boy said:

Early "copy" DQ's are getting to be a regular intimidation tactic.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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