Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Lowell/Overdales - PAPLOC Now claimform - old Landlords utils debt


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 164 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

well lowells are going to have to produce them if it ever goes to court so i suppose the next move is not yours.

its only £240 and its disputed so they might well drop it.

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Hi all

Lowell's have sent my Dad a court claim they obviously think its worth a pop.

These people are either incompetent or just sending so many letters out, that they have no idea what's happening.

They had meter readings when the previous tenant left and when the new one came in, no energy was used as it was all turned off for safety like he does at every house he rents. only charges can be standing charge if any to be added.

Just to remind you:

this is an estimated bill - surely you cant take someone to court for an estimated bill?

@BankFodder can you please tell me what the official name is for those guidelines that you posted to this previously please, ill need to refer to it in defence. I can see it says steering group, is this something that big suppliers agree to abide by?

@dx100uk i have checked his credit file and nothing on there regarding judgements etc
 

in the defence ill list:

1) its an estimated bill

2) no t&c ever sent with letter dated 7/8/19, no details about costs compared to other contracts etc

a) details of the principal terms of that deemed contract

b) written notice that contracts on terms other than deemed contract terms may be available and as to how information can be obtained as to any such terms, and

c) if the customer is a domestic customer, an accurate summary of the principal terms of domestic supply contracts available to them.

3) Overdales say that on 22/9/18 an account was entered into (see prev PDF), yet a letter from Npower on 7/8/19 states that if they don't hear from him within 30 days they will put him on an assumed contract which clearly disputes the Overdales letter.

4) Npower have NO record of any information regarding this customer!

questions:

can i get this moved to a local court?

i see that i can file the defence online but id like to go to court and show these scumbags up

can we counterclaim for my reasonable time in court?

anything else i need to add in the defence?

thank you all

2023-10-24 claimform.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

Does this work?

Quote

I do not owe the claimant any money as they alleged or at all.
I deny that I had an agreement in with the claimant. The claimant appears to have bought an alleged debt from a utility supplier and despite my statutory request for information both from the claimant and also the supposed energy supplier, they have not provided me with personal data relating to any of the claim, the alleged agreement, the basis of the agreement or how the sum claimed has been calculated.
The defendant puts the claimant to proof of the agreement, its terms, and the basis upon which they now say that the alleged agreement has not been honoured by the claimant if such an agreement exists at all.
Additionally, although there is a statutory provision for interest on claims, 8% is not a statutory sum and it is in the discretion of the court and given the current low rate of interest, 8% is completely disproportionate – in the event that the court finds against the defendant.
 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • dx100uk changed the title to Lowell/Overdales - PAPLOC Now claimform - old utils debt

please dont rush into this

lets do it properly by the book as we do all these lowell util debts and blow them out the water by our tried and tested methods.

there are lots of lowell claimform util threads for you to read.

your defence will be as bland and non informative as their poc but thats not due till day 33

please complete this:

and we will advice you properly

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil national business centre Northhampton

Name of the Claimant ? Lowell portfolio

How many defendant's  joint or self ? 1

Date of issue –  24th Oct 23

date to file defence - 24th Nov 23

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for –

1. The claim is for the sum of £239 due by the Defendant under an npower account with an account reference of xxxxxxxx

2. The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement.

3. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 04-06-21, notice of which has been given to the defendant.

The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue of these proceedings in the sum of £19

What is the total value of the claim? £260
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ?yes
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? no
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? NA

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? energy debt rented property
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no agreement entered but assumed (deemed contract) to have entered 2019
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? see above
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? no
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. debt purchaser
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? yes
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? yes
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? i believe so
 

Why did you cease payments? NA
 

What was the date of your last payment? NA
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? no financial difficulties

I dont suppose it matters , but i just noticed on reading the letter from overdales a while ago, they say this current bill is related to a bill of £180 from Aug 19, that bill was never sent.

I have here approx 120 different bills or letters from Npower, and the debt collectors and that bill has never been sent

Link to post
Share on other sites

Without wanting to side with them too much, if they are suggesting that the bill was sent and if you think that the action refers to that in some way then you should be aware that the court may well accept that the bill was indeed sent

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

please note your corrected date of defence filing.

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.
Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...
You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
.
get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

 type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.do not ever use or give an email
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............


 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

thank you guys, always welcome your responses

Can i ask, is it a common thing to send court papers based on estimated bills? how is that legal?

i have just emailed npower again to inform them that i will be taking legal action if they do not find my data.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do be aware that they are not under any statutory obligation to store your data. In fact if they story and they have no further need of it then they could be breaching the Data Protection Act by "over processing".

The correct approach would be to require them to disclose the data or else confirm that it has been deleted.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, gwebstech said:

@dx100uk i have checked his credit file and nothing on there regarding judgements etc

i never asked for that i asked if this debt from npower/eon now Lowell showed.

3 hours ago, gwebstech said:

Can i ask, is it a common thing to send court papers based on estimated bills? how is that legal?

if you read a few claimform util threads, yes quite legal, you forget these people are a debt buyer and they don't care, nor should they. its a debt, they bought it, your dad is one line on a debt portfolio from eon. 85% blindly cough up because they wet themselves as its a court claim. hence their speculative claim.

im not being funny but i cant see the point of chasing eon or npower or whomever for whatever you think is missing ...this for 'lost data'. its not a missing olden egg that will provide anything that win the case for your dad.

he would of had a deemed contract with npower between his tenants, like he always would have had in all years previous with 'whomever' if there was a gap between his tenants. you cant escape that, it's how utility companies deal with landlords and their rental accommodation and have done for +40yrs. you go down the route of he was never a customer of npower and on that point you will lose hands down.

and indeed the attached below proves that very point in the npower letter overdales sent earlier and the very fact they have not inc the 2015 debt as its statute barred now.

you also, as @BankFodder points out will be sunk if lowells gain proof a bill was sent to him within 12ths from the period of usage in their POC, and i dont think the back billing rules apply to a landlords either, you might be best to move toward finding that out. have a read of the industry back billing rules and comeback here.

 

npower letter for deemed contract for periods 28-09-14 to 2-1-15 + 22-09-18 - 27-05-19.pdf

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks dx and BF - Reading that it sounds like theres no point going to court?

the bill was sent within 12 months (22/9/18- 9/9/19).

I realise you know way more about this than i do but i can only say that if they are going to put someone on a deemed contract, then they need to do it properly - they havent from what i can see. They never told him about his chance to go onto as different contract at different rates, or the terms etc

Im not going to stand by and let them throw their weight around, they dont scare me, we've got nothing to lose if they've already got that bill.

They billed him first and then put him on a deemed contract, that cant be right.

They claim he entered into a contract in 2018 and yet in 2019 they admit they have had to ask who was responsible for the bill.

they ll be lucky to get a penny out of my Dad even if they win

Im not understanding the back billing rules make any difference if they've billed within 12 months like i mentioned above?

ive looked at the rules and Ofgem say the rules apply to micro businesses but i cant see anything specifically about landlords

Link to post
Share on other sites

Acknowleged service today, sent CPR yesterday recorded

my friend who has a fairly senior role at Eon, and works in commercial debt says that i should dispute the bill with Lowells, and add that to the defence when submitted as a court wont proceed with a disputed bill he says.

Have you tried that before on here?

He says Lowell are then likely to pass that back to Npower for clarification which might mean i get to complain to the ombudsman and get the bill re assessed?

Link to post
Share on other sites

lowell have purchased the debt it is nothing to do with eon anymore and they cant pass it back.

yes if you look at our previous defence you'll see a dispute is mentioned in it.

but you dont want to go into details thats for your ws if they ae brave enough to take it that far, they usually discontinue a few days before they have to pay the hearing fee.

it only a couple of £100's it wont be worth them spend lots on it they might never get back.

if you look just below your thread in this very same forum

theres one @Andyorch did yesterday

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

The defence needs to be filed soon, ive got this so far - can you let me know what you think please @Andyorch

1) I do not owe the claimant any money as they alleged or at all. I deny that I had an agreement in with the claimant. The claimant appears to have bought an alleged debt from a utility supplier and despite my statutory request for information both from the claimant and also the supposed energy supplier, they have not provided me with personal data relating to any of the claim, the alleged agreement, the basis of the agreement or how the sum claimed has been calculated. I personally turned the gas and electricity off whilst the house was empty for safety, so i cannot be responsible for any energy used.


Additionally, although there is a statutory provision for interest on claims, 8% is not a statutory sum and it is in the discretion of the court and given the current low rate of interest, 8% is completely disproportionate – in the event that the court finds against the defendant.

2) The claimant claims that contractual payments were not met. The Claimant is put to strict proof of the agreement, its terms, and the basis upon which they now say that the alleged agreement has not been honoured by the claimant if such an agreement exists at all.

3) The bill is currently in dispute with Lowells due to it being estimated

4) It is an estimated bill. Energy readings were provided at both the end of one tenancy and we have copies of the readings at the start of the next, so no need for an estimated bill, an agent even visited the current tenant within 14 days of her becoming a tenant, so there must be accurate meter readings.

5) The steering group guidelines section 2.4 SLC 28(8) clearly state what the procedures are that should be followed regarding deemed contracts. Despite numerous requests, the claimant has failed to provide requested information:

a) details of the principal terms of that deemed contract

b) written notice that contracts on terms other than deemed contract terms may be available and as to how information can be obtained as to any such terms

the claimant is put to strict proof that a) and b) were ever provided when the alleged assumed contract was started.

6) The claimants solicitors state that on 22/9/18 an account was entered into, yet a letter from Npower on 7/8/19 states that they are still requesting information as on who to bill, it goes on to say that if they dont hear back within 30 days they will put him on an assumed contract which clearly disputes the claimants solicitors letter.

7) Npower have confirmed they have NO record of any information regarding this customer nor this account. SAR has not been fulfilled to prove any account was ever created as stated by the claimant

😎 We have no way of knowing how this bill is made up as it is partly due from another bill which has not been provided.

9) Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a MoneyClaim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

 10) The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for the Defendant to fully plead his case else the Claim should stand struck out.

 

We have found photos of the meter readings 3 days after the tenant actually moved in, and npower have overestimated by approx £70. The tenant cant possibly have used that much as she'd moved in those couple days, not living there yet.

I have told lowell the bill is disputed but ive not gone into any detail other than its estimated. Npower sent someone round just after the tenant moved in, and took meter readings.

This needs to be in by the 24th i believe. Do i need to add or edit anything?

Link to post
Share on other sites

thats a witness statement not a defence

go back to my last post and see the thread link and the example there that was used.

date to file defence - by 4pm fri 24th Nov 23

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, ive looked at what Andy put there. Bankfodder wrote 1 and  most of 2 that i have put above, so should i use that or Andys  way of describing it?

Hows this? can you check it please @Andyorch and thank you dx

ive tried to combine what BF said with what Andy put in that other def statement

1. The Defendant sets out its case below and relies on CPR 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. The claimants claim is denied. I have never entered into an account with NPower. The POC refers to a failure to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence that any such agreement was in place.

The claimant appears to have bought an alleged debt from a utility supplier and despite my statutory request for information both from the claimant and also the supposed energy supplier, they have not provided me with personal data relating to any of the claim, the alleged agreement, the basis of the agreement or how the sum claimed has been calculated.


Additionally, although there is a statutory provision for interest on claims, 8% is not a statutory sum and it is in the discretion of the court and given the current low rate of interest, 8% is completely disproportionate – in the event that the court finds against the defendant.

2. There still remains an unresolved dispute with Lowells

3.  Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a written agreement.

  1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be available at the hearing.

With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to: -
   a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement.  
   c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

The Claimant has stated they may request the court accept a contract existed based on other evidence available, in the absence of any signed contract, but has failed to disclose to the debtor, any evidence that a contract was ever entered into.

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 needs splitting up and moved further down 

and you need to use 1,2 3 from the andyorch defence post 17.. those pre amble paras at the start are important.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, noted and amended. Thank you

 

1. I the Defendant contend, that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

2. The claimants claim is denied. I have never entered into an account with NPower. I never lived in nor used any energy at that property. Therefore the bill in question relates to a period I was not the occupier of the property.

3. The POC refers to a failure to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence that any such agreement was in place, again it is denied as I have never held an account with NPower.The claimant has failed to provide any evidence that any such agreement was in place.

4. The claimant appears to have bought an alleged debt from a utility supplier and despite my statutory request for information both from the claimant and also the supposed energy supplier, they have not provided me with personal data relating to any of the claim, the alleged agreement, the basis of the agreement or how the sum claimed has been calculated.


5. Additionally, although there is a statutory provision for interest on claims, 8% is not a statutory sum and it is in the discretion of the court and given the current low rate of interest, 8% is completely disproportionate – in the event that the court finds against the defendant.

6. There still remains an unresolved dispute with Lowells

7.  Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a written agreement.

  1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be available at the hearing.

With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to: -
   a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement.  
   c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

The Claimant has stated they may request the court accept a contract existed based on other evidence available, in the absence of any signed contract, but has failed to disclose to the debtor, any evidence that a contract was ever entered into.

8. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

9. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem you face is that under landlord /tenant energy supplies any given vacant period will fall on the responsibility of the landlord hence the " deemed contract " whoever the utility supplier. He is liable for the standing charges during that period.

I think you need to be upfront in the defence and start your opening with that admittance you farther is a landlord and rents out numerous properties. The alleged debt in this instance relates to a period of when the property became vacant and meter reading were supplied to the supplier on termination of the previous tenant and the start of the new tenant. (you need to establish an exact time frame the property was vacant and that an estimated bill can not be appropriate and that any charges if such can only be a standing charge for that period and that the property was vacant.)

You should be able to easily calculate the standing charge for the period in question and I would advise that an admittance is made for just that amount...but the rest of the estimated amounts etc etc be denied.

 

Andy

 

 

.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Andy.

I understand what you're saying and I was going to add that to the defence but i thought it would go on the WS.

Id have thought that the whole point of this is that they haven't followed correct procedures for a deemed contract.

They've billed him and then told him they will put him on a deemed contract afterwards, many months after the bill, not to mention that they haven't followed procedures for such contracts which is surely worth a debate to a judge?

which do you think is the best avenue to go down?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Undecided to be honest is it possible to work a standing charge figure out for the period that it was vacant ? The elephant in the room is this ludicrous invented standing charge that all utility companies charge irrespective of whether any energy has actually been used or not. It really needs abolishing.

It happens all the time even on normal house sales = the legal owner pays it until the new owner takes ownership like wise the previous tenant pays it until it gives notice (final readings) and the new tenant informs them they are now in residence but in the case of rented properties during the time its vacant the landlord becomes liable (man in the middle) and picks up the tab. 

If you could get a figure then we can review which is the best way forward, for argument sake if the Standing Charge equates to say £70 for the period it was empty it would be far easy to plead that than to get into arguments of deemed contracts.

Estimated charges are off the table either way in any defence given the property was vacant....also Lowell will not have a clue on how to defend as they have no knowledge of the history or the fact its a rented property and will be impossible for them to put any plausible argument forward to their claim.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

The property was empty approx 7 months which i estimate to around £135 according to their bill and as stated, we have no way of knowing what the prev bill this bill is based on, is made up of

i think if they had looked into who owned the house earlier ( they didn't until 7/8/19 and they then gave him 30 days before a deemed contract would be put in place) and then put Dad on that contract then he's responsible for any money owed after that.

I personally think its worth arguing that they didn't follow the rules for such contracts but i await your advice.

Ive told Dad to screw them and go to court and have his say

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...