UPS/Packlink Parcel Lost - Claimed Raised on MCOL

[jbradbu1]

Okay, I'm happy to apply for the transcript if you can send me the details please? 

Thanks for sharing. I have found the document before, it appears to be the blanket terms that Packlink uses for all transport agencies, so would also apply to UPS. I'll add a non-highlighted copy to my bundle as advised. 

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

Thanks. I have just sent you an email with a partially completed EX 107 form and with a message.

We can reimburse you before you pay as soon as you get the estimate from The Transcription Agency – or else it would be faster if you would simply send it off and pay and we will reimburse you as soon as you let us know.

PayPal would be easiest if you have a PayPal account.

[jbradbu1]

Hello,

 

I'm due to send off my court bundle tomorrow and just wanted to confirm that you would advise including the full length "eBay Delivery Powered by Packlink Terms and Conditions" as opposed to extracts, I'm conscious that it's a 20+ page document and didn't know whether it would be seen as excessive including it all.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

you dont need to inc the full anything as long as its accessible online just refer to where it is

dx

[jbradbu1]

Thanks DX.

 

Thought I'd share a bit of an update on my transcript request from the Farooq case. The request was referred to a judge who refused the application, no further details as to why it was refused have been provided. It seems a little odd to me as I don't understand why it would be refused given that I clearly stated it's relevance to my case. 

[BankFodder]

Yes very strange.
Tell you what, why don't you send them a Freedom Of Information Act request.

 

Quote

To Brentford County Court

Dear Sir/Mdm

Freedom of information act request – case reference XXX

Please will you let me have the transcript of the judgement in the above case.

I'm making this request as a Freedom of information act request and so normally I don't have to justify the reason for my request. However, I am the claimant in a related case – (name of the case)(, case number), heard on XXX date at Brentford County Court by Judge XXX.

Although the judgement does not form binding precedent, it is relevant, persuasive, and a matter of interest and also it forms part of a public hearing.

I'm happy to pay the reasonable costs of transcription if that is necessary or other reason expenses.

In fairness I should point out that I have already tried to obtain a transcript using form EX107 and my request was refused by the judge but without any explanation.

Presumably now that I'm making this statutory request, there should be no further objection.

Please acknowledge this request.

I understand that you have 20 days to satisfy the request.

Yours faithfully

 

 

[jbradbu1]

Thank you.

 

I have just sent the email, will feedback as soon as I hear back from the court.

[BankFodder]

Great, I have sent a Freedom of information act request as well. Let's see what happens.

[jbradbu1]

Hello,

 

Firstly, I wondered what the implications were of the court not replying to our Freedom of information act request within the 20 day period?

 

Additionally, I recently received the Defendant's witness statement, I have attached this. In summary, their arguments are that as follows:

- there is no contract between myself and UPS (nothing new here, responded within response to defence submission)

- I have not stated how the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act applies to this matter (nothing new here, responded within response to defence submission)

- the Consumer Rights Act doesn't apply as the contract is between two companies (i.e. Packlink and UPS) (nothing new here, covered by the arguments around the contract between myself and UPS)

- if the Consumer Rights Act does apply, then the limitation of liability is in line with the CMR Regulations and the Warsaw Convention and they are similar to those of competitors (I'm less confident with my response to this argument, however the point around competitor terms seems irrelevant)

 

Thanks as always

Defendant Witness Statement.pdf

[BankFodder]

 

Quote

The statement that "the limitation of liability is in line with CMR regulations in Warsaw Convention" is simply a bald statement and unsupported by any evidence.
Furthermore, the suggestion that the defendant is in some way protected because of the similarity of the limitation of liability with those of their competitors is irrelevant.
The defendant is effectively saying "other people are doing it so we are allowed to do it as well…".

The defendant is either subject to the unfair terms provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 or else the unfair terms provisions in the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and one of the tests of an unfair term in the 1977 act is that there is no alternative route for a claimant.
The defendants' assertion that there limitation of liability is the same as that throughout the industry is itself evidence that their customers have no alternative and for that reason alone, the limitation of liability is unfair within the meaning of the 1977 Act.

In terms of a breach of the freedom of information act 20 day period, you should  complain to the information Commissioner's office that the court is in breach.
I can tell you that I also have made an FOIA request to which they have not responded.
I'm afraid the only way forward now is to make complaints to the ICO office using the ICO website.

It's a nuisance all round. Clearly the judge is stopping it. I can only imagine that she hasn't made proper notes and is embarrassed.

Does anybody know the name of the judge?

[jk2054]

do you know the day of the hearing?

 

[BankFodder]

I have just completed a FOIA request complaint using this form

FOI and EIR complaints

ICO.ORG.UK

---

Check if your complaint is eligible to come to the ICO or find out if there is more action you need to take before you can complain to us. For example...

 

[jk2054]

BF your penultimate message is confusing me.  You said he should not complain to the ICO but you go on to say you complained to the ICO?

Care to explain?

 

[BankFodder]

Corrected

[jk2054]

ah makes sense now. do you know the day of the hearing we want a transcript of? if you do I should be able to find judges name

[BankFodder]

12/07/2023

[jbradbu1]

Thanks for the explanation regarding the unfair terms, that's crystal clear. Similarly, thanks for sharing the link to the complaint form, I'll complete that now.

[BankFodder]

Incidentally, I should point out to you that as you appear to be a trader, in principle you would not have the benefit of the consumer rights act or its unfair terms provisions and you would have to rely on the unfair terms provisions in the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.

Also, they make the point that if you have access to their contract because of third party rights, then you will be bound by the rules of commercial contracts because they are too commercial contracting partners.
You would not be up to you insert yourself into the contract as a consumer. Your third party rights are equivalent to those enjoyed by a direct contracting partners.
Therefore if the court agrees that you enjoy third-party rights, once again whatever your status – trader or consumer – you will have to deal with the companies as equals without the benefit of the Consumer Rights Act and you will have to rely on the unfair terms provisions of the 1977 Act.

Mind you they are broadly the same as the 2015 Act but don't confuse the two

[jbradbu1]

Hello,

 

Quick update. I received an email on 07/11/23 from the Knowledge and Information Liaison Officer stating that they would respond to my request within the next month. As my hearing is on 27/11/23, it looks unlikely that I will have the transcript before my hearing and am I right in thinking that even if I did, it's too late for me to include it within my arguments at this stage as the court bundle has already been submitted?

Also, with the hearing now less than 2 week away, I plan to spend the time between now and then refreshing myself of all of my arguments and the legal materials that I am relying on. I'm aware of the format of the hearing and what's required of me on the day, however do you have any advice regarding how best to prepare? If not, I'll feedback in a couple of weeks regarding the judgement.

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

It certainly wouldn't be too late to tender the transcript in evidence.

Have you had any kind of response to your request for it?

[BankFodder]

Sorry I hadn't read your earlier post correctly.

Who is this knowledge and information officer? Is this person from Brentford county Court?

 

[AndyOrch]

Decent salary might just apply 

https://jobs.justice.gov.uk/job/knowledge-information-liaison-officer-80325/

 

[jbradbu1]

The knowledge and information officer is responding to my Freedom of Information request as I didn't hear anything from Brentford County Court and haven't heard anything from them since. 

[BankFodder]

Thanks. I complained to the information commissioner.

The information commissioner raised it with the court and the court has not replied and so the information commissioner is now escalating the complaint

1 hour ago, Andyorch said:

Decent salary might just apply 

https://jobs.justice.gov.uk/job/knowledge-information-liaison-officer-80325/

We'll give you a reference if you ask nicely

[Teacher]

It seems that Brentford County Court has been found by the information Commissioner to be in breach of the Freedom of Information Act

 

 

IC-264963-R3X5 - Signed Decision Notice_Redacted.pdf