HFC Marbles credit card SD - was dismissed as voluntary joint charge provided - now owed by Cabot - settled at home sale - was i overcharged?

[tedney]

 

Hello Good

Yes, no explanations or even a mention of a Restriction. Wonder if we can have charged removed after all this time?

We signed a Land Registry Form CH1.

In the panel number 5

"Borrower for entry on the Register,

W. typed in both mine and my partners name

(silly, but only just realised this!),

but credit card debt only in my name.

In panel 6:

The borrower with full title guarantee charges the property by way of legal mortgage as security for the payment of the sums detailed in panel 8

Panel 7 was blank, no crosses.

Additional Provisions panel 8 states:

To secure the sum of £9xxx.xx only such sum to be repaid by a schedule of repayments as may be agreed by the parties from time to time.

Both parties signed at the end of the form.

Another thought/question:

As I am making payments against this sum, what would be the process if the charge cannot be removed and obviously a lesser sum to clear the charge would then be applicable in the event of the property being sold.

How would this be handled at the time of the sale?

I would still appreciate some advice 

Also as per this thread,

original "debt" was assigned to Phoenix, as told to me by Weightmans I was not informed of this by Marbles/HFC, Weightmans then advised that debt had been sold to Marlin, again I was not informed of this by Phoenix.

Now, I have been informed by Weightmans that their client is now "Cabot Financial (Marlin) Limited, and the "Legal Owner of the account is Marlin Europe 1 Limited.

What do you think is going on here please?

Seems to me I've got three agencies now involved in this one issue.

I am still paying monthly, without missing any payments.

[AndyOrch]

All one and the same company Tedney

[tedney]

Thanks andy, really, you mean Weightmans, Marlin, Cabot all same? Didn't know that!

Just found this on their blog, thought I would post up for info, note the date.

"From 2nd March 2015, Marlin Financial Services are now part of the Cabot Credit Management (CCM) group.

In addition to this, we will be changing our name to Cabot Financial (Marlin).

Due to this the Marlin Financial website is currently being updated to reflect this change."

[AndyOrch]

[tedney]

Update

Even though account assigned/sold 2 or 3 times since default, I have been advised by OC to amend sort code for my monthly payment.

what do you think the status of the account is please?

Has it been sold?

Has it been "assigned"?

What, if any is the difference between assigned and sold?

Also having looked at some other threads on here,

has there been any update and/or clarification on situation regarding an OC having a charging order, but the debt has been "assigned/sold"?

Thanks

t

 

[dx100uk]

sold to phoenix years ago

[see the charge off date by HFC in the statements earlier]

about time you requested up to date statements.

how much is left to pay?

dx

[dx100uk]

and don't forget also restriction k's which many get confused as being full charging orders too.

 

if the debt is yours only

but the property is jointly owed.

 

doesnt need paying in most instances

[tedney]

Thanks Andy and DX

Charge on property was for Credit Card debt in my name, but at the time property was in joint names.

Weightman's got signature from my wife to agree charge on the property,

charge is shown on the Land Registry entry, before I knew of CAG and received bad advice from solicitor.

 

Debt has been reduced over the years, so charge value now less than original, but no statements received for some years, and debt sold on from Marbles/HFC to others, so not sure who would benefit now from charge?

 

I will have to look up file for who owns debt now, as stopped paying monthly a while back.

[dx100uk]

what is the wording of the charge...exactly please as written.

 

 

[tedney]

Hello DX

Here is the exact wording from the Land Registry Legal Charge of a Registered Estate form CH1:

1. Title Number: 123456

2. Property: My home address

3. Date 19th April 2007

4. Lender HFC Bank Limited P.o.Box 4716 Birmingham B1 3RD (Registered Number 1117305)

5. Borrower for Entry on the Register My Name and my wife's name     (BUT IT WAS SOLELY MY DEBT)

6. The Borrower with (full title guarantee) charges the property by way of legal mortgage as security for the sums detailed in panel 8

7. No X' s in either of the boxes: The lender is under an obligation to make further advances and applies for the obligation to be entered in the register. and The borrower applies to enter the following restriction in the proprietorship of the registered estate.

8. To secure the sum of £9817.15 only, such sum to be repaid by a schedule of repayments as may be agreed by the parties from time to time.

9.  Execution signed by myself and my wife and witnessed.

Weightmans got my wife to sign a consent form hereby agreeing and consenting to the charge, and agreeing to sign the CH! form.

 

They issued a Bankruptcy Petition to me. The sum on the petition includes costs for this even though the CAB requested they be removed.

Current Balance of Marbles debt £6492.52

[tedney]

Hello DX

Any views and/or comments on post 58 please?

Thanks

t

[dx100uk]

the finer points ...im not too good at..as it's a rare one.

but safe to say your mrs got done over by agreeing to it via a consent order?

i think this means its a voluntary charge on the home.

p'haps andyorch can further clarify tedney.

dx

[AndyOrch]

 Section 2 of the Charging Orders Act 1979:

 

“2 Property which may be charged
(1) …………. a charge may be imposed by a charging order only on—
(a) any interest held by the debtor beneficially—

 

So your wife may have agreed to the charge by way of the consent order even if mislead but she has not acknowledged to being the debtor/borrower...therefore the charge is questionable and invalid and should be amended to a type K restriction....if its not already.

 

Andy

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/charging-orders/practice-guide-76-charging-orders

[dx100uk]

thanks andy.

 

dx

 

[AndyOrch]

Topic open

[tedney]

I sold my house and completed on 16th January 2023.

The holder of the main mortgage was paid off in full on that day, and their entry on the title deeds of the property were removed the very next day, I received written confirmation from both the bank and the Land Registry.

Also paid off on the 16th January was a debt to HFC bank, which was being administered by Mortimer Clarke.

I was "conned" into agreeing the charge on the property years ago, albeit it was my credit card debt and the property was in joint names at the time.

There was an old thread about this Marbles card debt on here a few years ago.

I have checked with the Land Registry today and found that, despite the HFC debt having been paid, the charge has still not been removed, almost 3 months after the payment.

What is the best way forward with this matter please?

Thanks

t

[dx100uk]

eh?

was it not only a restriction K your debt joint home.....IT DIDNT NEED PAYING!! you've been had!

 

On 25/08/2014 at 16:11, dx100uk said:

you cant have a CO on a joint home

its only a restriction K

dx

 

told you this 7yrs ago 

 

On 27/08/2014 at 17:00, tedney said:

Both parties signed at the end of the form.

opps very long thread.

 

dx

 

[tedney]

Thanks for you comment dx,

I realise from previous posts that I was conned, but rightly or wrongly, following incorrect advice from a local solicitor at the time, my wife signed a document to agree to the charge on the property and the charge was placed after a court hearing and is still,

as stated on my last post on here, and almost 3 months since the sum was paid on the Land Registry Title register. I am concerned that, if not removed, it might have a detrimental effect.

The precise wording on the Title deeds is: Entry Date 2007-06-15  Charge dated 19 April 2007 in favour of HFC Bank Limited.

Do I chase my solicitor who paid the inflated debt, or HFC, whose name the charge is on the register, or Mortimer Clarke who was the solicitor representing HFC?

t

[dx100uk]

i would almost be 1000% correct if would say after +8yrs the debt had been sold on.

who was this charge paid off too and by what method and by whom?

all HFC existing stuff is now owned HSBC

[tedney]

the debt was passed around to Weightmans, Phoenix, Marlin and then I was getting chaser letters from Mortimer Clarke.

The solicitor who handled the sale of my house paid Mortimer Clarke as far as I know.

I think my solicitor contacted them initially ( I gave the solicitor their details as they had been chasing me)

They quoted a larger sum than that was owed, and my solicitor told me that, in the interests of getting the sale through, to pay first and I told him I would pursue after sale to recoup the overpayment.

It was paid I think by bank transfer to Mortimer Clark by my solicitor.

[dx100uk]

On 01/04/2015 at 12:59, Andyorch said:

All one and the same company Tedney

cabot group

so you need to complain to cabot

dx

[tedney]

Thank You dx

[honeybee13]

Thread reopened.

Please post your update here.

HB

[tedney]

Before I contact Cabot about this charge "con", what are the views about the situation I now find myself in please?

I set out below, for ease, the history of this matter.

I am currently being chased by Cabot about an old credit card account which Cabot have confirmed is unenforceable.

They have offered me a settlement for this old account which almost covers the overcharge for the Marbles Registered Legal Charge.

The Marbles card debt on this thread was "satisfied" by the sale of the property on which the Legal Charge was registered on a CH1 form with the Land Registry dated 19th April 2007.

An inflated sum was paid to the solicitors, Mortimer Clarke.

I disputed the amount they requested.

My conveyancing Solicitor advised that I pay the sum they requested in order not to delay the sale of the property, The inflated sum was paid in January 2023, and MC confirmed their receipt and the sale proceeded.

MC confirmed their client as Marlin Europe I Limited.

1.  The CH1 “Legal Charge of a Registered Estate” was taken out by the Lender HFC Bank. 

The debt was passed about to various debt collecting bodies, but the repayments were always made to Marbles, until they refused to accept the instalments, I ceased paying the instalments!

It was never confirmed to me who actually and eventually owned the debt, as correspondence was always with solicitors, Weightmans and Mortimer Clark.

The solicitors’ correspondence referenced their clients as “Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Limited S.a.r.l, on behalf of Potomac Recoveries, and Marlin Europe I Ltd” I have never received any correspondence or confirmation of any sale of the debt from Marbles or any of their “Clients”.

I think that HFC no longer exists? If so and given that the CH1 Registered charge is in HFC’s name, is there any other steps that I should take to ensure the charge is properly removed please?

As the charge on the register has been removed, is this still relevant please?

2.      Before the Legal Charge was issued Weightmans tried to make me Bankrupt. This was dealt with in a county court which made an order in the case, dismissing the Bankruptcy Petition.

In the Court's Order, there is a Note to Debtor: “It is your responsibility and is in your interest to ensure that the registration of the petition as an entry, both in the Land Charges Register and your registered titles, is cancelled.”

I have checked today and can confirm that the entry of the charge on the Land Registry has been removed.

Does this satisfy the Court's Note please?

Is there anything else I need to do to satisfy this?

The original Legal Charge on the CH1 included a Weightmans fee of £741.50.

The sum of £7,322.36 (including W. fees) was paid to Mortimer Clarke to satisfy the charge in January 2023.

According to my records, the actual sum owed, after considering the repayments made since the Legal Charge was issued, was £5,889.88.

The last payments before the £7,322.36 were made in 2021.

The last account statement was received in October 2009.

A total of £180.00 was included on the account relating to “Late Charge Assessments and Late Payment Admin Charges”. No PPI charges were applicable.

 The "One off Payment" for the unenforceable account that Cabot are offering is £1506.14, the overcharge of £1432.38 on the Legal Charge almost covers the unenforceable account debt.

Is there an undue enrichment case for Cabot please?

Thank You

 

t

[dx100uk]

debts can be sold on, the fact that it had a CCJ/CO registered on your deeds and the name of the owner was not changed is immaterial.

if you were overcharged on this settlement upon home sale then you need to send whomever got paid an SAR.

as for this other debt cabot now own, but state at present no CCA can be produced and is thus unenforceable, i'd be starting a new thread. until they produce said paperwork i would not be settling it even for a discount.

dx