HFC Marbles credit card SD - was dismissed as voluntary joint charge provided - now owed by Cabot - settled at home sale - was i overcharged?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I think the debt has been sold as the old entry has been marked as settled, so the new owners have now taken

over the registering of the debt.

I expect you will be getting contact in the near future until then there is not much you can do.

As soon as they do contact post up the details and help will be here.

Edited June 22, 2011 by BRIGADIER2JCS

[citizenB]

If you are continuing to make the agreed repayments on the debt then any assignment I think has to honour that agreement.

 

Were you given a Judgement order from the court to confirm the Voluntary charge and nominal repayments ?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I think there is some guidance on the payments of existing

plans after assignment I'll see if I can find it.

[dx100uk]

we are trying to see if they are the same group just at the next desk with a diff skirt on.

 

 

you say one shows settled, but now there is another debt marked owing?

 

this is not right

 

dx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I found it buried it's old but relevant .

Goes back a long way.

In guidance on debt.

A court should consider that if a debtor is already making payments by

arrangement that the creditor may agree to continue but may ask the court for variations

of amount and frequency of payments.

I can even give the history as this in not from a web sit but from an incomplete

archived document.

[harrassed senior]

With regard to the 2 CRA entries, the OC has now Assigned the debt, so presumably has closed your files and marked as settled. A second CRA entry will then be put up for the same debt but by the Assignee, but it should contain all of the same information ie Default and Start dates as the original entry from the OC. What is confusing though, is if this has happened, why is the OC still accepting payments?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Could this be in house collections replacing the oc's company name?

[tedney]

UPDATE

Just found this on the OFT web site. http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/press_release_attachments/HFC-requirements.pdf

As my situation was before this ruling, but encompassed some of the items mentioned, large increase in sum owed, unreasonable behaviour (not responding to and denying receipt of "signed for" letters, etc.

Can I use this to remove charge.

Any Thoughts welcome.

Thanks t

[tedney]

Hello everyone!

On looking through posts generally, and specifically reading Brigadier2JCS's post no. 14 on here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fowthread.php?431146-Grandfather-had-died-but-has-debts-what-to-do

it prompted me to ask a question.

Facts:

I have a charge in favour of a card provider on my house (debt incurred in my name, house in joint name with OH)

Charge was made before I found this site, and in response to SD and bankruptcy threats.

I was paying off regular amounts before charge, and after DN and have continued to pay monthly amounts, not missing any.

Payments are made directly to the card provider.

Since the charge, debt has been "assigned" twice, but I only have a solicitors word for this, nothing from the OC.

The charge is showing on the Land Registry site as being in favour of the OC.

My question is:

As the debt has been "assigned", in order for the charge to be effective, shouldn't the Land Registry details reflect the alleged current owner of the debt?

Surely a third party cannot claim a charge in this way?

Any advice and/or help welcome.

 

Thanks. t

[dx100uk]

you cant have a CO on a joint home

its only a restriction 

 

 

dx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

You would be wise to check your credit ref. files to see who is registered as the owner of the debt.

The debt may have been "assigned" to a 3rd party for collection/management only.

[marmaris30]

These debt purchase companies, one of which claims to have been assigned the debt which is the subject of the Charging Order, can be a bit slow on the uptake.

However, their failure to update the Land Registry has no legal effect on the Order itself, even though it would be normal to request the Court to vary the judgement in favour of the new assignee, and then update the LR. If the previous assignee was paid accidentally then they would be obliged to pass the money to the new assignee.

It isn't quite correct to say that a CO cannot be made on jointly-owned property. It can, but it's unusual to request one because obtaining a Sale Order would be virtually impossible (the other joint owner has a right not to be disturbed).

If you jointly sell the property in the future then the CO will have to be satisfied from the OP's share of equity in the house, with the joint owner remaining unaffected. However, if the OP's equity is insufficient then the beneficiary of the CO could theoretically block the sale, so their permission should be sought beforehand.

If the debt is repaid before any sale then the CO should be removed and the LR record updated to its previous, unrestricted state.

[dx100uk]

how old is the debt the CO concerns

ever looked at PPI/PENALTY charges reclaiming to reduce whats owed?

dx

[tedney]

Debt not showing on files anymore, as over the time limit.

Last statement received was from 2nd assignee, though statement shows all payments which are being made to OC,

who the charge is registered to.

I have had letters from same solicitors, who have acted for OC as well as allegedly 1st and 2nd assignees saying words to the effect that " all benefits/conditions of debt now passed on to assignees, who now own the debt" I could look up exact wording if you think that relevant.

Indeed at one stage this one debt was being reported to the CRA's as three by the various parties!

Last "assignment" was made some considerable time ago, more than 1 year anyway.

Incidentally, the debt was shown as "satisfied" by the OC, when it was being reported to the CRA's.

Thanks for this, when it comes to sale, I will have to find an efficient solicitor/conveyancer. 

Debt dates from 2007. No PPI, tried for charges but refused, have not pursued this yet.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

 

Sight of these assignment may be very informative!

[tedney]

Thanks, what would be the best way to obtain please?

From the OC or their solicitor (who also acts for the assignees)?

Would I need to see both 1st and 2nd assignments?

I seem to remember reading on other threads on here that OC's (and presumably their agents/solicitors) refuse to provide or are very reluctant to provide actual copies of assignments to debtors.

[goodatresearch]

This is slightly incorrect.

A CO cannot be placed on a jointly owned property.

It would be a Restriction and permission would not be needed to sell.

Also, although most people would satisfy the CO from the debtors share of the equity, not doing so would not prevent the sale if done properly and you have a good conveyancer who knows the law in this area. The creditor just needs to be notified, it's all about timing.

There's plenty of info on this on CAG if you read around this issue.

Plenty of people have sold property without paying the restriction.

[dx100uk]

thanks for confirming my thought

tedney - what was the original credit and who with got the CO against you and did they get an CCJ first.

name names tell us dates

dx

[tedney]

Thanks for this.

However, the phrase on the Land Register is: "Charge dated ** *** 2007 in favour of HFC Bank Limited"

Would this still be described as a "restriction" please? 

The OC is Marbles, their solicitor, Weightmans, pushed for charging order by consent, which was granted in 2007 without a CCJ.

Debt was over £9K.

Wish I had known about CAG then.

t

[dx100uk]

oh god not hfc/weightmans.

you got done over there for sure.

did you ever send HFC an SAR to get all the statements - I bet 50%+ of that debt was PPI and unlawful PENALTY charges

[goodatresearch]

Since 2003, when the law changed, only a restriction can be registered for a sole debt when property is jointly owned. Post exactly what the land registry entry says in full

[tedney]

Here is the exact entry: Charges Register This register contains any charges and other matters that affect the land.

6. (15.06.2007) Charge dated 19 April 2007 in favour of HFC Bank Limited.

3 of first 5 entries pertain to matters concerning access rights over the property, and 2 concerning the original mortgage and the change of name of bank for the mortgage, not connected with entry number 6 stated above.

You are not wrong with your first statement.

W. did not respond to signed for letters, denied receipt of signed for letters, changed deadlines arbitrarily, even though I had complied with initial deadline.

Tried to add in excess of £1500 to the debt.

All this was BC = (before CAG)!

Yes, I had statements anyway, but I did SAR HFC, interestingly they were showing payments I made on the account even after the alleged "first assignment"

No PPI, some charges which they refused to reimburse

got their "we think they are lawful" response"

That was a few years ago now,

I have not pursued. t

[goodatresearch]

A restriction would start by saying "No disposition of the registered estate......."

 

Did your partner sign anything agreeing to a CO?

[tedney]

Yes,

debt was in my name.

[goodatresearch]

Oh dear, then you've been had.

Bet they didn't explain the difference between CO and Restrictions.

They've made this into a joint debt, very devious of them.

I'd try and have it removed if possible.

Have you still got a copy of what you both signed.

Wat did it say?