New Generation vanishing windscreen CCTV PCN Now Claimform - Not parked within the confines of a marked bay - Malpas Road Shopping Centre NP20 6WB

[Outoftoon]

Thank you.

I have done as you advised on the MCOL website.

Yes I received a letter of claim dated the 10th of January 2024 from dcb legal.

[FTMDave]

Did you send the SAR as suggested last year?

[dx100uk]

then why did you not comeback here and follow the advice given earlier when told to if you got a letter of claim, it's something you never ignore as thats why they've raised a claim through northants bulk as they think you'll ignore that too........

dx

[dx100uk]

On 27/02/2023 at 21:43, dx100uk said:

who said appeal?

yours is now not the next move

await if/when they ever send a letter of claim

dx

 

 

[Outoftoon]

Yes I did do the SAR.

I literally did not see the Letter of claim

I very rarely get post these days and my family had just put it to one side as it just appeared an innocuous letter I hadn't seen it initially.

From me "seeing" the letter there was only a few days after that I received the Claim Form letter, being in a brown envelope it stood out as more important.

 

[FTMDave]

So did they reply to the SAR?

[dx100uk]

2 minutes ago, Outoftoon said:

Yes I did do the SAR.

I literally did not see the Letter of claim

I very rarely get post these days and my family had just put it to one side as it just appeared an innocuous letter I hadn't seen it initially.

From me "seeing" the letter there was only a few days after that I received the Claim Form letter, being in a brown envelope it stood out as more important.

 

why are you not seeing letters to you the moment they arrive? are you not living at the address they are being sent too?

dx

 

[Outoftoon]

Yes I am living at the address but the only post I get is hospital reminder/confirmation letters of which I have had a lot lately,

I know it sounds bizarre but January was a very busy month for me workwise and worked away for a certain period also.

When I did open the letter I did not take action immediately, obviously, and before I knew it the claim court letter arrived.

Yes they did reply to the SAR, but it means nothing to me!

[dx100uk]

so you got the sar but didnt think to tell us and scan up it's contents....

there was a very good reason for it you know....it wasn't just to give you something to do that was pointless..

so get it all scanned upto one mas PDF file please

dx

 

[FTMDave]

You're not making it very easy to help you.

The parking company's case is totally laughable but if you don't get your act together you will end up losing.

[FTMDave]

Thank you for this.  Will have a good read through it now.

Of course we'll help you.

The case is eminently winnable.

All of us here have made mistakes in legal dispute - the important thing is to learn from the mistakes and get it right the next time.

[Outoftoon]

Thanks FTM Dave, I do appreciate your support and from the outside it does look like I have not listened to what you guys have advised but it has been me rushing as I don't have much time on my hands as constantly working. 

I am damned if I am paying a ridiculous fine because I haven't got time to fight them!

[honeybee13]

Please, it's not a fine. It's a speculative invoice.

Do you have time to deal with what we say you should do now?

HB

[FTMDave]

OK, we'll stop moaning at you now!

In the coming months there will be the odd bureaucratic form from the court.  Stuff that takes 10 minutes - well, not even 10 minutes - to deal with.  However, there are strict deadlines with nuclear consequences if you don't respect them. Sadly from time to time we get people who don't read the court paperwork properly and lose by default, we had one this week.  So from now on, please, the legal correspondence has to be dealt with promptly and us kept informed.

Had you replied to the Letter of Claim there would have been no court case, but, hey, spilt milk and all that.

Their case is still complete pants.

For the moment the actions needed are -

1.  CPR request tomorrow as dx says, sent to DCBL, invest in a 2nd class stamp and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

2.  Have a read of this short thread where you will see all the stages of the court process  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/406892-highview-parking-anpr-pcn-claimform-urban-exchange-manchester-claim-dismissed/#comments

The reason we asked you to send the SAR was to see if they had CCTV of your car.  I see they have sent photos but not CCTV.  I confess I know nowt about CCTV.  Do any of the regulars know if the photos shown are proper photos or stills from CCTV?

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, Outoftoon said:

If you can help me great, believe me I would rather donate the fine payment to you than pay them.

With all the doodoo I have had going on over the last year it would have been easier to just pay the fine and I'm beginning to wish I had but it is the principle. 

it is NOT A FINE.....this is an extremely important point to understand

no-one bar a magistrate in a magistrates criminal court can ever fine anyone for anything.

Private Parking Tickets (speculative invoices) are NOT a criminal matter, merely a speculative contractual Civil matter

hence they can only try a speculative monetary claim via the civil county court system (which is no more a legal powers matter than what any member of Joe Public can do).

Until/unless they do raise a county court claim a CCJ and win, there are not ANY enforcement powers they can undertake other than using a DCA, whom are legally powerless and are not BAILIFFS.

Penalty Charge Notices issued by local authorities etc were decriminalised years ago - meaning they no longer can progress a claim to the magistrates court to enforce, but go directly to legal enforcement via a real BAILIFF themselves.

10'000 of people waste £m's paying private parking companies because they think they are FINES...and the media do not help either.

the more people read the above the less income this shark industry get.

....

you also need to remember we dont only post with you in mind.

future readers are equally as important to stress how important it is to do things when needed and carryout the advice given else as you say you get in the DooDoo.

 

[Outoftoon]

Thanks FTM Dave and DX, I have done the letter for the CPR request and will post it tomorrow so I can get proof of postage.

Went to the car park today and took 2 photos, 1 of the initial sign when you go into the car park and then the more detailed sign(s), probably not much help but have uploaded them anyway.

 

2024-02-18 sign photos.pdf

[dx100uk]

you SAR is totally unredacted!!

had to hide the post.

 

 

[Outoftoon]

Apologies DX, I must have uploaded the copy that I hadn't covered the relevant info 

Do I need to do my defence on MCOL website asap?

[FTMDave]

No, as long as you've done Acknowledgement of Service you have 33 days from the claimform date in which to file a defence.

[dx100uk]

4 hours ago, dx100uk said:

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

 

[Outoftoon]

So there is no harm in me doing my defence and submitting it now? I don't want to leave it till the last minute as I know I will get bogged down with work. Just wanted to check with you guys that there's no harm in submitting the defence straight away.

Could I PM one of you my defence statement?

 

Edited February 18 by Outoftoon

[dx100uk]

read all of this 

then scroll down to our std defence..... use that  BUT NOT YET

what date is your defence due from the info above?

i would not be filing early. no

and you post it here pm advice is not allowed as it helps no-one bar you - not what CAG is about

[FTMDave]

Hang on a moment please.

We have a standard, bland defence.

However, upthread Nicky Boy suggested adding to it based on your appeal.  New Generation know the car was never parked and left during the industry considerateness period, but have started legal action regardless.

Give us an hour.

[Outoftoon]

Right, I won't do anything. No rush guys thanks. 

[FTMDave]

I would suggest the changes in red to our standard defence.

My thinking is (a) they know this anyway so you're not playing any cards too early and (b) they only issued the claim because you didn't reply to the LoC and may well discontinue when they realise they'll be hit in the pocket.

However, please do not file the defence this evening.  Wait at least until tomorrow to give the other regulars the chance to comment.

In fact we would prefer you ran the whole 33 days.  It keeps the other party sweating and shows you're not scared of them.

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim.   

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

6.  The Defendant engaged with Claimant's appeals procedure, so the Claimant is well aware that the vehicle was never parked and that it left the car park within the industry's consideration period.  The claim is entirely vexatious.  The Claimant is simply abusing the court procedure to try to make the Defendant pay monies which the Claimant knows are not owed. 

7.  As the claim is vexatious the Defendant will be requesting the court order additional costs due to the Claimant's unreasonable behaviour, in accordance with CPR 27.14(2)(g).

8.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.