Mortgage advice given on unrecorded line

[Mountaneer]

Hello,

 

After the initial main advice session, my HSBC bank mortgage advisor had lengthy discussions about repayment vehicles for an interest-only mortgage, which was what I always wanted but the advisor did not, despite being fully eligible for the product.

 

All this discussion about repayment vehicle, he did over his mobile, which was an unrecorded line.

I was always fully eligible and had enough repayment vehicles to get interest-only or part-interest-only mortgages.

 

Can a mortgage advisor discuss an unrecorded line?

Is it legally correct for him to have discussed on an unrecorded line? 

 

[Ethel Street]

This FCA guidance page suggests that retail financial advisors are exempt from the requirement to record phone calls.

 

Recording of telephone conversations and electronic communications | FCA

 

Was this an employee of HSBC? The bank may have its internal rules which might have been broken.

 

Why are you asking? Are you making a complaint to HSBC about the advice given? If a bank employee presumably not an independent advisor but a restricted advisor giving advice only on HSBC products?

 

Did you record the call?

[Mountaneer]

Hello Site Team,

 

Many Thanks for the reply.

 

The link you gave says that phone calls must be recorded, except for internal or back-office communications.

 

A more appropriate link I found that is more relevant o mortgage advise is this 

MCOB 4.7A Advised sales - FCA Handbook

WWW.HANDBOOK.FCA.ORG.UK

 

which says, in the last paragraph that the record of mortgage advice must be kept for three years.

 

Yes, the advisor was indeed a bank employee and was advising on HSBC products only. I did not record the mobile call myself, but the advisor admitted in other recorded calls that he made calls using his mobile and the topics discussed.

 

It actually was a real loss to me and I request learned people here to help me with this.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Mountaneer

[dx100uk]

you will have at least mobile phone call records

 

he MUST at least add notes to your 'file' in the comms log, or whatever HSBC call it.

i would SAR them.

 

see if he left notes.

 

this will add much worthiness to any eventual movement going FWD.

[stu007]

Hi

 

The HSBC Advisor to do with this whether they were in the companies office or working from home that mobile phone number will be linked to HSBC Systems so it may seem that they have called you on a mobile phone when actually they have more than likely done this via a computer using the mobile device all for security purposes.

 

If the above is the case then the call will have been logged and recorded on HSBC Systems as well as that Advisor having to leave notes.

 

Also in whatever search engine you use (google, edge etc) open it and type in the mobile number and see what comes up.

 

I have a friend who works for a large bank in the Mortgage Dept for some years and the above is the setup they use whether working from home or in the office all during the pandemic and even now and all calls are recorded and notes must be left by that advisor.

 

Couple of questions?

 

1. Are you 100% this was an actual Advisor from HSBC if so the above applies.

 

2. If this was a Broker working on behalf of HSBC then the above doesn't apply but they would still have to leave notes of your discussion. 

 

We need to be clear on whether it was 1 or 2 above.

 

 

[Ethel Street]

9 hours ago, Mountaneer said:

The link you gave says that phone calls must be recorded, except for internal or back-office communications.

 

It says "We also do not expect conversations or communications made by investment analysts, retail financial advisors, and persons carrying on back office functions to be recorded". Mortgage advisors are retail financial advisors.

 

The MCOB handbook also does not say calls must be recorded. 

 

So the answer to your original questiions - "Can a mortgage advisor discuss an unrecorded line? Is it legally correct for him to have discussed on an unrecorded line? " - is yes, it is legal. But he must keep records.

 

Moving on, you say "It actually was a real loss to me..." but not explained what the loss is and what you want to happen next.

 

We can advise your better if you give us the full story. 

[Mountaneer]

It was an HSBC employee and the mobile call was indeed unrecorded. I have raised this as an issue to HSBC in a complaint but at that time, I had no evidence that such unrecorded calls even took place, let alone refer to their contents. There are no notes either anywhere about those unrecorded calls.

 

So far, the progress I have made is to get the HSBC advisor to admit, on a recorded line, that he discussed interest-only mortgage repayment vehicles on mobile. I have obtained this latest call recording from HSBC and have it kept safe with me now. His overall advice was that my application is less likely to succeed and so I had to let my application be Capital-payment, which was already approved by then. I had requested HSBC to let me make a separate application but they said the current approved application will need to be withdrawn.

 

I had always wanted a 5-year mortgage ( as I mentioned in my main recorded advise call ) instead of the 2-year that was already approved. So the loss to me is that I could not lock rates for five years.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Mountaneer

[Mountaneer]

On 28/01/2023 at 17:14, Ethel Street said:

This FCA guidance page suggests that retail financial advisors are exempt from the requirement to record phone calls.

 

Recording of telephone conversations and electronic communications | FCA

 

Was this an employee of HSBC? The bank may have its internal rules which might have been broken.

 

Why are you asking? Are you making a complaint to HSBC about the advice given? If a bank employee presumably not an independent advisor but a restricted advisor giving advice only on HSBC products?

 

Did you record the call?

 I called FCA today and they said that the above link is obsolete and has been superseded

[Ethel Street]

38 minutes ago, Mountaneer said:

 I called FCA today and they said that the above link is obsolete and has been superseded

 

 

Well perhaps they should remove it from their website then! It is unprofessional of FCA to have this page on their website, where it still is right now today, presenting it as their current guidance last updated August 2021.

 

It's not a relevant comment from them though unless they have changed their guidance and now say that retail mortgage advisors should record all their phone calls. Did FCA tell you that is now their requirement, that retail financial advisors must record all their phone calls? Did they point you to new page with the new guidance? If so please can you post a link to the new page. 

 

What else did the FCA advise you?

 

I'm not clear what you are seeking help with. So far the only specfic question you have asked is whether retail mortgage advisors are legally required to record their phone calls. What else would you like help with?

[Mountaneer]

They did not take me to a new link though. They said that it will be for me to read the FCA handbooks.

 

About the MCOB link that I mentioned above, she said that the link/page is valid as of today, unlike the other one, but refused to interpret the text/sections for me.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Mountaneer

[Ethel Street]

3 minutes ago, Mountaneer said:

They did not take me to a new link though. They said that it will be for me to read the FCA handbooks. on MCOB that I mentioned above, she said that the link/page is valid as of today, unlike, the other but refused to interpret sections for me.

 

Doesn't sound as if they have been very helpful. 

 

But back to the question, what advice are looking for here? How can we help you?

[Mountaneer]

I have lost faith and feel gloomy as to what I can do for justice. Fighting back HSBC in court can be so daunting. Lawyers ask for a hell lot of money to take on the case itself, even to examine it.

 

Tell me please, Is it okay for me to fight myself in court? And wouldn't the judge think that HSBC's lawyer is correct as he is a lawyer? How can I put my case in court without mentioning exact rules and regulation numbers/sections?

 

It is quite natural, to me, that mortgage advisors must have to record or take notes. For a loan running in £500.00K, the advisor has a responsibility and I am sure is legally bound as well. It's just a matter for me to refer to the correction sections in my claim. Possibly lawyers would know.

 

But if someone here could help me with this it will be so helpful.

[dx100uk]

you dont need a lawyer and as long as your 'claim' is less than £10k.

it will be small claims, and costs are very limited bothways.

[Mountaneer]

Site team, Thanks for responding but what I mean is that I need to present my argument by referring sections in FCA handbook.

 

Just on a side note, are the directions in FCA handbook legally enforceable?  Please advise on this.

 

Also, would the judge himself be knowledgeable on the matter? In case I am not able to express all the law points in my favour, would the judge know what the legislation holds for me?

Edited January 30, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[dx100uk]

that will all come out as your case progresses ......within your witness statement later in the process, you will briefly refer to what you need the judge to consider.

[Mountaneer]

Will this case be litigation or on basis of paperwork?

[dx100uk]

eh?

 

dx

 

 

[Mountaneer]

Please excuse me if this comes as clumsy question? But I have never seen a court and it is one of the things that I need to know.

Edited January 31, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[dx100uk]

im not sure what you mean by your question at all.

 

if you mean do YOU have to goto court, the answer is yes.

you could have your case decided 'on the papers only' its cheaper, but you'd lose.

 

why dont you hit court claim or small claim

and read.

 

dx

 

 

 

[Ethel Street]

@Mountaneerroughly how much compensation will you be seeking from HSBC? That can be relevant to the court procedure that is followed, which "track" your claim would be allocated to.

[Mountaneer]

Thanks, Ethel Street and DX Team for the answers.

 

I will go to a court hearing if that makes my case better. But in that case, will I be better off with a solicitor to argue my case? Will I be provided with questions from the defence ( HSBC) before the hearing? 

 

[dx100uk]

you dont need a solicitor no.

 

and if read up on the court process, using the links i have already provided the answers to the questions like yours  above will all become clearer

 

 

how much are you after?

 

 

[Ethel Street]

@MountaneerHow much will you be claiming, roughly? We need some idea how large your claim will be.

[Mountaneer]

See claim-wise, I would ask for my mortgage tenor to be made 5 years, as per what I mentioned in the main recorded advise session.

[dx100uk]

seems to me all you want is for hsbc to switch you to the mortgage you want?

 

strange question , but have you actually, bluntly, in a simple brief letter , asked them?