Arrows/Drydens Salford Claimform - Old New Wave Capital Business Debt with Personal Guarantee? - help required with defence

[dx100uk]

i would not blindly be posting that defence without @Andyorch giving the OK too.

 

a day or two late won't really hurt as you are a litigant in person, (joe public against the system) 

 

[Nic369]

Damn!! sent it

[dx100uk]

you need to send a cca request to the claimant regarding a credit card.

 

read all the posts.

 

dx

[Nic369]

Hi Hope you all had a good Xmas/ New Year. 

 

Update on my situation.

sent in defence form by email on 28-11-22, hadn't heard anything back until the 21-12-22.

An email returning my defence form, then on the 29th judgement notice came through.

Please see attached letters.

Do I have any recourse on this matter, grateful for the help

 

 

 

Timelines don’t appear to add up - 

you had till 8/11 to send in acknowledgment - as per your earlier post 

but they got a judgement on the same day ? According to first letter 
 

it seems like you completely missed this deadline- and your email hasn’t been acknowledged so they got ccj by default that day 

 

you could maybe ask for set aside , based on evidence - acknowledgment was sent in on time - but seems to have been overlooked ? 

docs1.pdf

[AndyOrch]

14th Nov was the deadline to acknowledge service ...therefore the claimant can request judgment within 19 days of service.

 

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[Nic369]

Hi The date of service stamp on the form was 26th Oct, I then only received the mail on the 3rd of November, I sent an acknowledgement in on the 8th, was well within the time frame. Something has been overlooked I think, I must be able to have some recourse??

[AndyOrch]

You will have to speak to the court then and ask claim issued 26th Oct AOS 8th Nov...which should then allow 33 days in total to submit a defence...defence date being 25th Nov.

 

What date did you submit your defence ?

[Nic369]

submitted it on the 28th Nov as was advised this was the last date of submission, did it on email.

[AndyOrch]

Thats why its always better to use the online service rather than emailing etc.....speak to the court that issued the judgment.

[Nic369]

Thanks, I did initially try to use the online portal, but didn't have a password with the documents, tried to call the court over a 3 day period, then decided to do the acknowledgement by email.

They make it really difficult to contact or get advice, what am I asking them to do when I get through?

[AndyOrch]

You are informing them of a court error that's assuming you have proof and receipt that your AOS was received. They will try to fob you off and try to make you make an application to set a side at your cost.....this could be resolved without a hearing so you shouldn't be expected to pay the £275 fee just £100...but if you can prove the court at fault you shouldn't have to pay at all.

[Nic369]

Ok Thanks for your time, so to clarify

 

I sent AOS on the 8th Nov, which is the 14th day from the 26th Oct,  which by this forums account is well within the time period for submittal. I have an email on the 8th saying they have received the email, surely I'm well within my rights to tell the court it was their fault.?

Untitled.pdf

[AndyOrch]

And what date did you submit your defence ?

 

And I have just noticed this is a CCMCC claim so you could not have used the online portal anyway hence no password on the claim form.

 

 

 

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[Nic369]

Defence on the 28th Nov

[AndyOrch]

Technically it should have been Friday 25th but that's splitting hairs as Monday the 28th should have been acceptable assuming they received it on Monday 28th and you didn't post it Mon 28th.?

 

Providing you can satisfy the above the relevant CPR is as follows 

 

CPR 13.

 

Cases where the court must set aside judgment entered under Part 12

13.2 The court must set aside^(GL) a judgment entered under Part 12 if judgment was wrongly entered because–

(a) in the case of a judgment in default of an acknowledgment of service, any of the conditions in rule 12.3(1) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied;

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part13

And CPR 12

Meaning of ‘default judgment’

12.1 In these Rules, ‘default judgment’ means judgment without trial where a defendant—

(a) has failed to file an acknowledgment of service; or

(b) has failed to file a defence or any document intended to be a defence.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part12

.

 

 

[Nic369]

sent through on email

[dx100uk]

to which email address?

 

dx

 

[Nic369]

isn't the issue that they have ignored my acknowledgement, and receiving letter off arrow global saying

 

here's the letters we should have sent you, which demonstrates they did not follow any procedure

 

sent both AOS and defence to this address - [email protected],

 

which was on the documentation

[AndyOrch]

15 hours ago, Nic369 said:

isn't the issue that they have ignored my acknowledgement, and receiving letter off arrow global saying

 

here's the letters we should have sent you, which demonstrates they did not follow any procedure

 

sent both AOS and defence to this address - [email protected],

 

which was on the documentation

 

Yes, providing you have proof/date/receipt of email sent that's why I have posted the relevant CPR 13.2 above on which to base your complaint.

[Nic369]

Hi All, Hope you had a great Christmas & New Year.  Sent an email re: previous messages above copy below and the response from the court

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello

 

Regarding the email below, I don't know why a judgment was already entered against me I send in the AOS as instructed on the documentation by email receiving, an acknowledgement of receipt from you. 

 

Someone has overlooked my AOS and a judgement has been entered even though I was well within the AOS time frame by about 4 days.

 

This needs to be rectified and the judgment set aside under rule CPR13.2c

Cases where the court must set aside judgment entered under Part 1213.2 The court must set aside^(GL) a judgment entered under Part 12 if judgment was wrongly entered because–

(a) in the case of a judgment in default of an acknowledgment of service, any of the conditions in rule 12.3(1) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied;

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part13

Please advise ASAP as you have cost me valuable time so far

Thank You

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your recent complaint received on 9 January 2023.

 

I am the Customer Services clerk and I am writing in response to your complaint.

 

I'm sorry to hear you're unhappy with our service as you believe your Acknowledgment of service has been overlooked which has led to Judgment being entered against you. I've checked all the details of your complaint for you, and we didn't make any mistakes in the administration of your case. I know this won't be the answer you were hoping for so I'll explain my findings for you below-

 

Acknowledgment of service

I can confirm that your Acknowledgment of service was received by email on the 08 November 2022 and was processed on the case. Filing an Acknowledgment of service gives you 28 days from the date that claim was served, to submit your Defence. In your case, the date of service of the claim was the 26 October 2022 so you had until 4.00pm on the 23 November 2022 to submit your Defence. When the 28 days have passed, if a Defence has not been received from the Defendant the Claimant can then apply for Judgment if they wish to do so.

 

Judgment by default

I can confirm that the Claimant sent their Judgment request on the 16 November 2022 and Judgment was entered on the 12th December 2022. Judgment was entered correctly as the Claimant submitted their Judgment request before you submitted your Defence.

 

Your Defence

I can confirm that your Defence was received by email on the 28th November 2022, but was returned to you on the 21 December 2022 as Judgment had been entered.

 

Please be advised that although CCMCC work is not being processed on the date we receive it, it is processed in date of receipt order.

 

If you're unhappy with the way I've handled your complaint, you can ask our Operations Manager to review it. Just write to her at this address with details of why you're not happy:

 

Pat Rees

Operations manager

CCMCC

Po Box 527

Salford

M5 0BY

 

Pat will get back to you within 10 working days.

 

[dx100uk]

45 minutes ago, Nic369 said:

I can confirm that your Acknowledgment of service was received by email on the 08 November 2022 and was processed on the case.

 

45 minutes ago, Nic369 said:

I can confirm that the Claimant sent their Judgment request on the 16 November 2022 and Judgment was entered on the 12th December 2022.

eh?, how can they do that, when they processed your AOS on 8th nov? before the 33 days from the date on the claimform had expired? (friday 25th nov as day 33 was sunday 27th?). 

 

it looks like the claimant was allowed by the MCOL system to wrongly be allowed to apply for judgement as your AOS had not been recorded on MCOL?. the option for the claimant to apply for judgement should not have been there until after nov 25. MCOL have screwed up and don't realise it?

 

dx

 

[MOSS 41]

'I can confirm that the Claimant sent their Judgment request on the 16 November 2022'

 

how can a claimant request judgement 8 days after AOS and 7 days before filing of defence deadline??

 

is there anyway this complaint can be escalated to someone higher up ? or some one else- this does not appear fair at all

Edited January 18, 2023 by MOSS 41

[AndyOrch]

Quote

Judgment by default

I can confirm that the Claimant sent their Judgment request on the 16 November 2022 and Judgment was entered on the 12th December 2022. Judgment was entered correctly as the Claimant submitted their Judgment request before you submitted your Defence.

 

Quote

Your Defence

I can confirm that your Defence was received by email on the 28th November 2022, but was returned to you on the 21 December 2022 as Judgment had been entered.

 

Well it shouldn't have been returned because judgment wasn't applied until 12th Dec 2022

 

This is CCMCC not MCOL ...keep at them.

 

 

 

 

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[Nic369]

On 28/11/2022 at 20:38, dx100uk said:

i would not blindly be posting that defence without @Andyorch giving the OK too.

 

a day or two late won't really hurt as you are a litigant in person, (joe public against the system) 

 

 

Hi Feeling very overwhelmed by what I need to do or how to approach it, I have used the advice given here to complain to this CCMCC and as you see previously they have dismissed my complaint.  Comments on from the group gratefully received but I feel unclear how pursue this, ill put down my thoughts in a list

 

1. Court said defence was late!, group members said here it shouldn't matter, as per above quote. How do I contest the lateness issue?

2. How can I stop the company/courts pursuing me for money, issuing bailiffs etc..so I can deal with issues I have or have been raised, as per quote for example.

""how can a claimant request judgement 8 days after AOS and 7 days before filing of defence deadline??

 

is there anyway this complaint can be escalated to someone higher up ? or some one else- this does not appear fair at all""

Edited January 18 by MOSS 41

 

3. How Do I find out when and where the AOS was processed 

 

eh?, how can they do that, when they processed your AOS on 8th nov? before the 33 days from the date on the claimform had expired? (friday 25th nov as day 33 was sunday 27th?). 

 

it looks like the claimant was allowed by the MCOL system to wrongly be allowed to apply for judgement as your AOS had not been recorded on MCOL?. the option for the claimant to apply for judgement should not have been there until after nov 25. MCOL have screwed up and don't realise it?

 

dx

 

4. Even thought the judgement was entered on the 26th Oct I did not receive the paperwork until the 2nd Nov, there were postal strike knocking around, the form said they were accepting email AOS due to postal strikes, but does not give any more time for people receiving. 

 

thanks

[AndyOrch]

Let's run through the dates again cronologically to see what we are missing here.

 

Date of issue – 19/10/2022 (you had 19 days to Acknowledge Service = Sunday 6th Nov 22) Monday 7th should be acceptable by 4.00pm.

Date you did Acknowledge service = Yes 08/11 by email

 

Therefore, you acknowledged service late and the claimant can request a default judgment by the 18th Nov 2022 which was entered on 12th Dec 2022.

 

Running through your topic I spotted the following post which I have corrected although its irrelevant when you submitted a defence because you didn't acknowledge service on time.

 

Quote

Posted November 28, 2022 · IP  (edited)

Day 33 is today for me isnt it date of service was 26th Oct (correction date of issue was 19th Oct) Today is 33,  what defence do i file?

 

 

 

 

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