Smart ANPR PCN - overstay of 45mins free time - ANGOULEME WAY RETAIL PARK, BURY

[jaminbenj]

Hi,

 

This is my first post so apologies I've missed something amongst the other threads i've read today regarding the same 'creditor' at the same location, The questionnaire is below:

 

1 Date of the infringement 03/09/2022

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 16/09/2022

 

3 Date received Today, 26/09/2022
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] NO

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? YES
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] NO
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? SMART PARKING

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] ANGOULEME WAY RETAIL PARK, BURY
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under IAS is mentioned on the back of the notice
 

 

I have a few queries regarding this having read some of the threads on this site:

 

1 - It has taken 23 days from the date of contravention for me to receive this comms - this is the first comms I have received regarding these matters;

 

my under standing there is 14 days for them to issue this notice, with the date detailed being 13 days, so no problem there. I have read there is then a 2 day allowance for post, so 16 days in total, meaning I should have had this by 19th September 22 - is my understanding correct?

does this invalidate this invoice?

is the Bank Holiday a mitigating circumstance for them? even then that is only 1 day - there hasn't been Postal Strikes in the period between date of issue (16/09/22) and date of receipt (26/09/22)

 

2 - the charge is for £100, reduced to £60 within the 14 day period (of which there is only 4 remaining) - I note a thread about these charges being capped at £50 now - is this a legitimate charge?

Source - Private parking fines to be capped at £50 - BBC News

 

 

3 - The convention itself is for being 17 mins over a 45min 'free stay' period - 45 mins seems incredibly short and despite contacting the Landlord - CBRE, as well as the Planning Dept of the Local Authority, I've been unable to ascertain the legality of this enforcement. 5 of those minutes were spent queuing to exit the retail park, with the only exit leading onto a road that get congested due to volume of traffic looking to turn onto the A58 which runs perpendicular to the site. 

 

Any help or advise is greatly appreciated

[dx100uk]

well the reception delay is not of their doing.

you most certainly need to nail down this unlawful free 45mins limit, i bet the original planning perm said nothing of the sort!! and neither can anyone revise it to that without council approval.

 

dx

 

[jaminbenj]

Thanks so much for your reply!

 

So the whole 2 days post thing is just a bit of cobblers? I havent seen anything 'official' which quotes that tbf.

 

what about the charge? is the BBC article linked correct, and the maximum charge applied should be £50?

 

I have emailed Bury Planning department to try find out more, but it takes them 10 business days to reply, all while the clock is ticking on the discount being offered in the notice - am I best to challenge the notice with SMART? will this put a pause on the clock for the discount period? The letter says if I pay then I accept liability, which makes me think that even if I pay, and then the Council come back to say it should be more than 45 mins, I wouldn't be able to recoup my money.

 

what is the best way forward here?

 

 TIA

Edited September 26, 2022 by jaminbenj

[FTMDave]

Remember that unless a judge orders you to pay this money after you've lost a court case, you are under no obligation to pay.

 

There are no guarantees but in the seven years I've been on the site I've never seen Smart take court action and I've never seen a Cagger pay Smart a penny.  Sure, they threaten to drop a nuclear warhead on your house but ultimately do nothing.

 

There is a minimum 15-minute grace/consideration period and queuing to get our of the car park isn't parking.

 

Is the envelope franked?

 

The £50 cap in the government Code of Practice is currently being legally challenged by the the fleecers so can't be considered.

 

 

 

 

[zydeco]

I live in Bury and know this carpark well. It's pay&display but smart allow 45mins free if you get a free ticket from the machine, it's been this way for years. 

[lookinforinfo]

Could you please post up the PCN you received. Please redact your name, address and vrm as well as their ref.numbers and include front and back page.

Smart do, amazingly enough,  have planning permission for their signs and cameras  approved in July 2021 by Bury Council. The signage says the first 45 minutes are free and the motorists can then  pay to stay there for up to 3 hours [but not 45 minutes plus 3 hours.].

 

Under the new Private Parking Code of Practice, a consideration period of  a minimum of five minutes is allowed at the start of the parking period. This is followed by a minimum of ten minutes, described as the Grace period at the end of the parking period. As you were further delayed because of the traffic on the main road, and the fact that both periods were minimums , Smart have no chance of successfully winning in Court were they stupid enough to do so. 

[brassnecked]

Similar in Llandudno at a retail park but they allow 2 hours free with no ticket required until, or unless intended stay is longer , in which case you buy a ticket first.  That 45 minutes is a point of challenge as LFI sdays.

[FTMDave]

Well done on not paying these utter charlatans.

 

Prepare for deforestation over the next few months - but nothing worse than that.  I've done a search on the forum and we have three others in your same position for this car park.  None of them paid.  None were taken to court.

 

Yes, please keep us updated.  Any info will be useful also for others in the future.

 

As you seem to use this place regularly, next time get photos of the signage and of any traffic queue at the exit.

[FTMDave]

In Desmond3178's thread  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/445048-smart-pcn-retail-park-angouleme-way-bury/#comment-5150270  it is stated that once the free stay period was two hours.

 

Of course they might have made a mistake.

 

Do you know @zydeco?

 

[dx100uk]

docx has all your pers details in file info/properties

and your reg is showing in text

 

please use PDF 

post hidden till you pop a PDF up to replace the docx