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    • Heres a point, while we wait for @theoldrouge to condemn rather than promote and support right wing bigots spouting genuine and clear monstrous antisemitic rhetoric ... Isn't it actually specifically unlawful to promote violence against politicians on top of laws to criminalise such things? ... As is reported happening in these closed facebook groups run by Tory staff and where a Tory police minister and the Tory London mayor candidate are members and post?   .. or do the Tories (seemingly like tor) only promote laws for protecting the hate spouting hard right ?   "“Some of these (Tory facebook groups) posts constitute the most appalling racism and I would urge the Conservative Party to swiftly distance itself from these hate-filled groups and urgently investigate what role any Conservative politicians and officials have played within them. “Susan Hall and the Tory MPs who have belonged to these groups need to come out and explain why – and to denounce the content they have tacitly endorsed by their membership.” "Reporters found widespread racism and Islamophobia as well as conspiracy theories and celebrations of criminal damage on the pages, including sharing the white supremacist slogan and antisemitic videos. " "Unearthed found that 46 out of the 82 admins have clear links to the Tory Party, including a recent digital campaign manager for the party and a conservative activist. Conservative councillor for Haywards Heath, Rachel Cromie, is an admin on all the groups. "     Also interesting that Facebook groups opposing 20mph speed limit in Wales are being run by English Tories   Conservative-run anti-Ulez Facebook groups hosted racist and Islamophobic posts - Unearthed UNEARTHED.GREENPEACE.ORG Tory staff running Facebook groups described as 'cesspits of vile racism' WWW.THENATIONAL.SCOT TORY staff and activists are running Facebook pages which are riddled with white supremacist slogans and Islamophobic attacks... Conservative-run anti-ULEZ Facebook groups are rife with racist and violent posts   Conservative-run anti-ULEZ Facebook groups are rife with racist and violent posts - London Post LONDON-POST.CO.UK A coordinated network of 36 Facebook groups opposing London’s ultra-low emission zone (ULEZ), run by Conservative councillors and...  
    • Morning dx and thank you for your message.   With regards to your comment about them not needing to produce the deed, the additional directions ordered by the judge included 'a copy of any assignment o the debt or agreement relied upon'  so that is why I thought that point was relevant?
    • Sorry for the long post but I don't want to miss out any relevant information: My wife bought a car from Trade Centre UK and have been having nothing but trouble with it. Unfortunately we paid of the finance used to buy the car as we weren't expecting this much trouble with the car as we we though we would have protection as buying from a dealer. We are wondering if we can still reject the vehicle since the finance plan has been paid off. Timeline is as follows: 13/12/2023 -15/12/2023 Bought car from Trade Centre UK for £10548 £2000 deposit paid on credit card on 13/12/2023 £8548 on finance from Moneybarn (arranged through Trade Centre UK). picked up car on 15/12/2023 Also bought lifetime warranty for £50/month 25/12/2023 Engine Management Light comes on. The AA called out and diagnosed the following error codes: P0133 - Lambda sensor (bank 1, sensor 1) Oxygen Sensor. Error Message : Slow reaction. Error sporadic P0135 - Lambda sensor heat. circ.(bank1,sensor1) Oxygen Sensor. Error Message : Component defective Due to it being Christmas took a few days to get through to them but they booked me in for 28/12/2023 to run their own diagnostics. 28/12/2023 Took car in to Trade Centre so could check the car – They agreed it was the Oxygen Sensor and Booked me in for repair on 30/01/2024. I was told they had no earlier slots, and I would be fine to carry on driving car when I said I was afraid of problem worse. During diagnosing the problem, they reset the Engine Management Light. During drive home light comes back on. 29/12/2023 - 29/01/2024 I carry on driving the car but closer to the date, engine goes to reduced power every now and again – not being a mechanic I presumed that this was due to above fault. 20/01/2024 Not expecting any more problems paid off the finance on the car using personal loan from bank with lower interest rate. 30/01/2024 Trade Centre replace to O2 sensor (They also take it on a roughly 60mile road trip which seems a bit excessive to me – I can’t prove this as something prompted me take a picture of milage when I handed car in but I forgot take one on collection – only remembered next day.) 06/02/2024 Engine goes in reduced power mode again and engine management light comes on – Thinking the Trade centre’s 28 day warranty period was over I booked the car the into local garage for the next day to get problem fixed under the lifetime warranty package. Fault seems to clear after engine was switched off. 07/02/2024 In the Morning, I take it to local garage who say as the light gone off – the warranty company is unlikely to cover the cost of the repair or diagnostics and recommend I contact them when the light comes back on. In the evening the light comes back on and luckily I manage to get it back to the garage just before it shuts for the day. 08/02/2024 The Garage sends me a diagnostics video showing a lot error codes been picked up by their diagnostics machine including codes for Oxygen sensor and Nox Sensors, Accelerator pedal and several more. Video also shows EGR Hose not connected to the intake manifold properly, they believed this was confusing the onboard system as it is unlikely this many sensors would trigger at same the time but they couldn’t be certain until they repaired the hose. 13/02/2024 Finally get the car back as it took a while to get approval and payment for the repairs from the Warranty company. Garage told me to keep an eye the car as errors had cleared with the hose but couldn’t 100% certain that’s what caused the problem. 06/03/2024 Engine management light comes on again. Fed up I go into Trade Centre as I was just around the corner when it happened and asked them how to reject the car or have the problem fixed. They insist that as it’s over 28 days I need to get the car fixed under the warranty package I purchased and they could no longer fix the car as it was over 28 days. When I tried telling them it appeared to be the same or related problem they said they couldn’t help as I hadn’t contacted them earlier. I asked them if they were willing to connect the car to the diagnostics machine and tell me what the problem was, as a goodwill gesture, which he agreed to do and took the car to the back He came back around 30 minutes later and said they took a look at the sensor they replaced previously and there was nothing wrong with it and engine management light went off when they removed the sensor to check it. When I asked what the error code he couldn’t give me an exact fault but the said it one of the problems I told him earlier (Accelerator pedal). I have this visit audio recorded on my phone – I informed the reps I was recording several times. As the light wasn’t on, local garage couldn’t book me for a repair under warranty. 07/03/2024 Light came on so managed to book back into local garage for the 12/03/2024 Whilst waiting to take car into garage, I borrowed a OBD sensor and scanned for errors on the car. This showed the following errors: P11BE – Manufacturer specific code (Google showed this to be NOX sensor) P0133 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Response too Slow 12/03/2024 Took car to local garage and the confirmed the above errors. This leads me to believe that either Trade Centre UK reps lied and just reset the light or just didn’t check properly (Obviously I am unable to prove this) 22/03/2024 Finally got the car back as according to garage, the warranty company took a long to time to pay for the repairs 28/04/2024 Engine management Light has come back on. Using the borrowed OBD scanner I am getting the following codes: P0133 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Response too Slow P2138 - Accelerator Position Sensors (G79) / (G185): Implausible Correlation I have not yet booked into a garage as I wanted to see what my rights are in terms of rejecting the car as to me the faults seem related. I can’t keep using taxi or train to get to work every time the car goes into the garage as it is getting very expensive. Am I right in thinking that they have used up their chance to repair when they conducted the repair end of January or when they refused to repair it in February ? If I am still able to reject the vehicle could you point to any sample letters or emails I can use. Thankyou for your advice on my next steps.
    • Ok noted about the screenshot uploads. In terms of screwing up I had one previous ticket that defaulted and ended up in a CCJ from Southend airport because for some reason during COVID I didn't receive their claim form just a notice of default. This hospital ticket was the 2nd ticket that went to CCJ due to a lack of knowledge of the process. Maybe it's easier just to pay them in future I'm thinking though, I don't get them very often anyway
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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@evri - empty box for Samsung S21 Phone - court claim issues *** Settlement pre hearing***


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Hi,

 

I have come across Consumer Action Group in the past with advice about trading rights and now I am at a stage where i would appreciate your expertise in this specific case. After losing £449.50 through Paypal's decision to award the buyer a refund via eBay.

 

Sold the phone for £440, the buyer has disputed twice he not received the item but instead an opened box that he only realised after delivery. Ebay have awarded me the dispute as you can see the tracking number shows delivered by Herme / EVRi. After that the buyer has gone to the 'payment institution' (PayPal) and claimed the item was 'Not as described' where Paypal have given him a refund without a requirement to send the phone back. EBay are charging me as they claim I am NO LONGER eligible for seller protection as the decision was made by PayPal.

 

Particulars are:

 

  • EBay Member since 2005
  • I sold a Samsung S21 Mobile Phone with original packaging for £440 on eBay and posted it to the buyer using EVRi
  • It was packaged in a sturdy parcel, weighting under 1Kg, described as 'Electronics' with tape wrapped tightly around the edges of the parcel and the shipping label attached - Photos were taken of parcel
  • Dispatched it at Herme / EVRi Collection Locker drop-off on Wednesday 16th February 2022 at 1143 hours
  • Delivered on Friday 18th February 2022 at 1150 hours
  • No Signature taken but photo taken by Herme / EVRi that does appear to show the package is possibly damaged from the reflection on the tape (it is taken around 5 metres away)
  • When the buyer received it he provided photos and reported that the parcel was opened and empty
  • Buyer opened dispute with eBay claiming 'Item Not Received'
  • eBay award case in my favour and I was paid £449.50 - listing fees
  • Buyer then went to 'Payment institution' (Paypal) via eBay
  • Buyer then changes reason to 'Item not Described'
  • PayPal decides case in Buyers favour and awards refund
  • eBay tell me to pay the money back
  • I remove eBay direct debit (Cannot remove the funding source without replacing it with another one on their website)
  • 27/03/22  - eBay state they took the money out of my account but this does not appear to be the case

 

Actions Taken

 

  • Spoke with EBay multiple times. They claim they appealed the decision which was dismissed by PayPal. I stated that they had NOT asked me for any further evidence (i.e photos taken of parcel being sealed prior to sending) but they continue to claim they cannot appeal it again
  • I have reported this Fraud with Action Fraud due to the buyer offering differing disputes that essentially now means (if he has received the phone) he is not required to send it back.
  • Disputed the appeal with PayPal and sent photos of the packing and the original dispute made by the buyer. They are inconsistent, one message handler will invite me to send in documents when i do, they then say the dispute is between and the buyer and eBay. (EBay then refuse to appeal it further)
  • Today 31/03, I have begun the process with Herme /Evri. I provided the two photos from the buyer and been given a case number. I await a response.

 

 

After seemingly exhausting the appeal with eBay / PayPal I am going after Herme / EVRi.

 

 

- I will sue Herme / EVRi if required and would appreciate your assistance

- What steps will eBay take when they realise the payment was unsuccessful

 

Thanks

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If you are going to make a claim then probably the most effective thing to do is to claim against EVRi for the non-delivery/stolen item – but of course it will require some evidence.
There seems to be no dispute that your parcel was delivered to the correct address and the question is whether the parcel was tampered with and whether in fact it was empty.
Is it possible for you to get any photographs of the package from your purchaser?

Did you purchase the so-called insurance from EVRi?
Have you approached EVRi about this?

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I have emailed the buyer asking for the photos/CCTV.

 

- Did not take out any additional insurance

-Approached Evri today (31/03) over chat and provided photos of the box opened which the buyer originally sent me/eBay. 

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Okay. This is certainly stuff that we have heard before and I suggest that you begin by looking around for stories of the same kind of thing happening – parcels arriving at their destination empty.
You may find some stuff in the press as well. Try to get yourself a good collection – several instances of this happening by way of evidence.

If this goes to court then you will have to do convince the judge that it is more likely than not that what you are saying is what actually happened. This is not such a heavy burden as a criminal burden which is "beyond reasonable doubt".
In civil cases, the standard of proof is simply – more likely than not – which probably ought to mean that it is 75% likely that what you say did happen.

If you can get a statement from the purchaser as well then this will help a lot.

Begin by making a complaint to EVRi about it. Tell them that you want reimbursement. Don't set any deadlines but if you don't hear anything after about 10 days or so then come back here and let us know.

In the meantime decide whether or not you are prepared to take this to court.

Have a look at the EVRi stories on this sub- forum so that you can understand the route.
I expect EVRi will defend on two issues – that you have insufficient evidence to prove that what you're saying is true and that in any event you didn't ensure the parcel.

The insurance argument is dead in the water – but read up on this sub- forum about why the insurance requirement is unfair and unenforceable.

And as I said, understand enough about it and your possible losses in terms of court fees that you are prepared to go ahead and sue them for your reimbursement.
Don't imagine that they will simply pay you out without court papers having been issued – and if they consider that you don't have sufficient evidence that the parcel was delivered empty, then there is quite a good chance that they would simply go to court.

 

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If you still have the IMEI number I would report it stolen so at least it can't be used.

 

I'm surprised that eBay have washed their hands of this as you should of been covered by the Sellers protection, might be worth having a read on that as well

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Thanks, yes reported it stolen to Immobolise. 

 

EBay confirmed I was under the seller protection but apparently when the dispute is taken by a payment institution then they no longer offer it. Absolute farce by all accounts.

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@just_jue  I have been selling in the past on Ebay I was doing a decent income, now it's full of scammers and Sellers are not protected at all.  I gave up 1 year ago when Ebay had the courage to refund a 0 feedback from Nigeria that returned an empty box that was suppose to contain a pair of brand new Gucci shoes. (he said were not Authentic) (I had the receipt from the Gucci store) The funny thing is that not only I had to pay the return label 25 pounds I had to pay over 130pounds of Custom import Tax, Total Loss was over 600 pounds, the scammer LEFT NEGATIVE FEEDBACK as well, which Ebay did not remove. After approx 40 hours of conversation with Ebay CSRs they all washed their hands they said to block the buyer and to report to the Police... What a F*** joke. If one day I would sell again on EBay I will only sell chinese 1 poundshop kind of doodoo. One day on Ebay there will be NO SELLERS ONLY BUYERS lol 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Situation update:

Herme s/Evri

Still awaiting response to the claim form submitted on 02/04 and was responded to by Evri that they are investigating with a 28 day time limit. 

 

Unless anyone has any other advice, at the moment I will await their response. 

 

 

Ebay

EBay have messaged stating the payment they tried was unsuccessful and my payouts are on hold (I haven't used ebay since this). Advice please -Should I pay eBay at this point or let it runs it's course?

 

 

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You say that you are waiting for a response to a claim form .

Does this mean that you have issued a court claim?

 

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Probably about time to send a letter of claim in that case.

I don't think there's anything you can do about eBay

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@BankFodderThanks, I have produced the LOC attached following research on the forum. Can you advise any edits? Also, any advice on phrasing the companies negligence under CRA? I.e should I instead state fail to deliver, deliver damaged/missing goods etc? 

 

 

LOC CA.pdfLOC CA.pdfLOC CA.pdfLOC CA.pdf

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The letter is fine. Brief and to the point.

I suggest that you send it as is

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Yes you need to include your contact details so they can get back to you – although don't hold your breath that it will be anything interesting.

In terms of email or post – I have no idea. Just get it to them

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  • 2 weeks later...

Received a response from Evri stating that due to not reporting the matter to them with 28 days they can no longer deal with a compensation claim. 

 

I will now move onto the next stage of legal proceedings. 

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Send them a letter of claim and prepare to take action in 14 days.

 

Post a draft of your letter of claim here and also your eventual particulars claim

 

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I don't see a copy of their response which you say you have posted – but it's all predictable anyway.

Yes, issue your claim that please post a draft of your particulars here first

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@BankFodder here is EVRIs response:

 

Thank you for getting in touch regarding parcel xxxxx. I’m sorry to hear that you encountered an issue with this delivery, I can appreciate these situations can be frustrating for both yourself and your recipient.

Unfortunately, we are unable to proceed with your claim as Evri must be made aware of the issue relating to loss, damage or late delivery within 28 days of the parcel being received into our network, as stated in our Terms and Conditions, specifically 6.1:
 
‘6.1 We need you to notify us in writing of any claim for Loss or Damage or Late Delivery within 28 days of the date of the relevant Order. The sooner you make your claim, the easier it is for us to investigate.’
 
You are able to contact us either by calling our Customer Services Team or submitting your query to our virtual assistant Holly, available 24 hours a day.
 
Unfortunately, the request for a claim form was made outside of this time frame and so your claim has been rejected. I’m sorry for any inconvenience caused by this, however, we will be unable to issue a compensation payment on this occasion.

If you have any queries regarding another parcel in the future, please contact your Evri Customer Service Team and we’ll be happy to help.
 
Kind regards,
 
 
Muns 2658
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You have to post it again because that last one doesn't work.

Next time you upload something please will you check that it works correctly

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