Excel Contractual Interest Spreadsheet

[muggins73]

Muggins.

Yours is a large claim and will be fought all the way. Unless you have been over your overdraft limit 75% of the time, you can forget

29.8%. Use the contractual rate (compounded)- because that is what you have been paying- and pm me with your e-mail address, I will send you a finely tuned version of Mindzais. You do not need to fill the whole sheet out again one by one, just cut and paste it column by column(2 mins job).

You can get away with compounded unauthorized interest (29.5%)on smaller claims (say £2-£2.5k).

Yes I have won compounded unauthorized rate.

Start your claims with CI, if you have not it does not matter, but send in another LBA.

regards Leech

 

Hi Leech and thanks for the response.

 

I was under the impression 29.8% was the compounded CI rate? According to ha;ifaxs website that was what they were charging me when I had a cardcash account back in 1993.

Using Mindzais spreadsheet for compounded CI @ 29.8% APR from dec'93 to date the figures are as follows:

Penalty amount =£1,039.00

Compound interest = £14,862.54

Combined penalty and interest = £15,924.28

interest paid on penalties £107.82

Compound interest on interest = £1,635.74

Combined interest on c.interest = £1,743.56

Total interest £16,521.02

Total inc. interest £17,667.84

 

The above is absolutely laughable isn't it:eek: You're right, i'm sure it'd be thrown out of court.

 

Vampiress google CI (not compounded) @ 29.8% (claim date 01-Apr)

Total penalties charged £1,039.00

Interest £2,938.24

Total £3,977.24

 

The above concurs in a round about way with that of mindais if I adjust the statutory 8% to 29.8% (02 -Apr). This means I'll be opting to go for a higher stat rate than that normally awarded by the judge.

The only addition is that mindzais inc. the interest paid on charges £108.82 + 29.8% interest on interest £333.05 = combined interest total £440.87

Total claim inc. interest £4,481.96

This to me looks like a realistic figure.

 

I'm gonna try vamps CI (compounded) with no interest on penalties and see what totals that throws at me.

 

I'll pm you with my email address for your version. What the heck, one more

spreadsheet to add to the 6 I've already got won't hurt, I'll try anything once:p.

 

 

Hi muggins,

 

I believe there are a few different google spreadsheets - some with interest paid on penalties and some without. The reason probably being that not everybody wants to claim interest paid on penalties so it's easier for them to use a spreadsheet without.

 

Lucid

 

Is there any reason as to why some would opt not to claim interest paid on penalties. Or rather is there a problem with me doing so?

[lucid]

Hi muggins,

 

Some people opt not to claim back interest paid on penalties because it doesn't necessarily amount to much. Some people may not have been taken into overdraft by bank charges, so in these cases they wouldn't be entitled to reclaim any interest they have paid. But others (like ourselves) quite often got taken voerdrawn by the charges so we did have a fair amount to reclaim.

 

It's completely down to personal choice and no you're not doing anything wrong in claiming it. Regarding your initial question to Leech at the beginning of your post, the contractual rate is both the authorised or unauthorised borrowing rate in your contract. I believe Leech is referring to claiming interest at the authorised rate and compounding it - which in your case will proabably still amount to a lot.

 

Muggins.

Yours is a large claim and will be fought all the way. Unless you have been over your overdraft limit 75% of the time, you can forget

29.8%. Use the contractual rate (compounded)- because that is what you have been paying- and pm me with your e-mail address, I will send you a finely tuned version of Mindzais.

 

Leech, if I interpret the meaning of this correctly (refer to my last paragraph to Muggins - that you wer referring to claiming compound interest at the authorised rate), why would you need to send a finely tuned version of Mindzai's spreadsheet? It already calculates compounded interest at whatever rate you want - unless I'm misunderstanding something. If I'm mistaken and you're referring to calculating simple interest then I apologise, but I have explained to Muggins how to alter the spreadsheet to do this.

 

If you have changed Mindzai's spreadsheet in anyway he would like you to email it to him with the changes so he can see what you've done. This isn't a negative thing, but if people are going to get emailed altered versions of his spreadsheet he wants to make sure they're accurate. If you have altered his sheet can you let me know please and I'll PM you with his email address.

 

Many thanks. Lucid

 

EDIT

Unless you have been over your overdraft limit 75% of the time, you can forget 29.8%.

 

Also would you mind explaining where this idea came from and where you got the figure of 75% from. I haven't heard this idea before and would be interested to know.

[LEECHTHEBREACH]

Hi Lucid, do not fear.

Firstly lets get this jargon sorted. As far as CAG is concerned and obvs there has been a lot of confusing discussions on this CI (Contractual Interest) as far as I am aware it is described as authorized interest typically 15-16% i.e. CI. That is what most people pay on their overdraft. Unauthorized interest is not contractual as far as the way CAG members understand the terminology (but it is so to speak)!

I know what you are saying it is just that members are getting a little confused so it is just a way of describing it.

So unauthorized contractual compounded interest is described as written.

No I have not altered the spreadsheet, my tweeking is just that you have missed the £ signs out of most of the columns and the minus figure in the overdraft column I have altered to the colour red as it looks better. Most members would not be able to change these items thats all (and they do not look right with the £ signs missing). Believe me Minzais spreadsheets are brilliant and thank her for me.

I am just saying that if you have paid a lot of interest and can show it on the spreadsheets you may well get away with CCI (unauthorized),but not on an account that has not incurred much interest.

regards Leech

[lucid]

Hi Leech,

 

"Believe me Minzais spreadsheets are brilliant and thank her for me."

 

LOL - Mindzai's the guy and I'm the girl.

 

As far as I'm aware both the authorised and unauthorised interest rates exist in the contract so they are both contractual interest rates. I see what you mean though but I have to say I've always seen people labelling which rate they're going for. Thanks for clearing it up though as it can definitely get confusing.

 

I've noted what you've said about the £ being missed out and the red font for negative figures is obviously a personal touch. I misunderstood what you were saying and thought you may have meant you'd slightly changed formulas.

 

Also, did you see my edit in my last post? I edited in a final question but there's no desperate rush to answer as I'm about to go out to a rehearsal.

 

Thanks a lot, Lucid

[LEECHTHEBREACH]

I have sort of answered it. I will pm you

Leech

Sorry about the gender mix!!!!!!

[muggins73]

After a lot of deliberation I've finally come to a decision. I'm gonna claim beyond the 6 year limitation for total penalties charges, plus authorised interest @ 18.9% + statutory if it comes to it.

I figure I've got more chance of winning this way and saves a great deal of hassle long term. My claim still amounts to £6,074.92 and if you add statutory to that (totalling £8,050.56 to date) comes to a healthy £14,375.49 with court fees:eek::cool: This amount is increasing daily so lets see what they come up with.

Thanks to all of you that have helped me on my merry way, especially Lucid, westy, progenic and deller your input is invaluable:)

All that is left to say is to wish me luck;)

[lucid]

Hi muggins,

 

You can't claim for statutory interest (s69 8%) if you are claiming contractual interest (either at the authorised or unauthorised rates) on charges - it's either one or the other.

 

Lucid

[muggins73]

I'm going for the interest they've charged me plus statutory. It's what westy did and won, and Bong too(in a round about way).

If it goes belly-up, then i know who to blame:D

[isidore]

Just been catching up....now I'm confused :?

 

Muggins, if you are going for contractual interest @ 18.9%, you CAN'T then add the statuatory 8% on top which is what you said you were going to do in post 206, now you've said you're not in post 208.....I think.

 

 

It sounds to me in reading along that you might still be confused with what interest people are referring to and when.

 

For a bit of clarity (as I can see you like ). You can claim...

 

Charges & debited interest then statuatory (if it goes to court) OR

Charges & debited interest & contractual interest and not statuatory

EDIT

By debited interest I am referring to the DR charges on your statement on a monthly basis these will be the figures you are placing into the right hand side of the spreadsheet. By statuatory I am referring to the s69 statuatory interest you would add to your claim once you get to court stage then obviously the contractual interest is compound contractual at either the authorised or unauthorised rate.

 

You can do a mixture of the two. It still sounds as though you are doing something different to this? It might just be me misunderstanding but I just wanted to check.

[lucid]

Oh sorry - you meant charges + interest paid on penalties + statutory interest. I'm quite confused now.

 

I did intend to go the whole hog, 11 years worth of charges and interest + compounded CI, and having entered all the necessary details onto mindzais' spreadsheet my claim totals up to a wopping £17,642.60 inc. interest

 

......

 

I've just managed to copy and paste most of my info onto vamps google spreadsheet for 'simple' contractual interest and that totals £3,977.24 inc. interest which seems far more reasonable.

 

So you initially had a figure of £17,000+ for contractual interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate. You then tried adding interest at the unauthorised rate by using a simple calculation (using one of Vamp's spreadsheets) and got a figure of £3977 - all inclusive.

 

Then in your next post illutrating figures you put:

 

Hi Leech and thanks for the response.

 

I was under the impression 29.8% was the compounded CI rate? According to ha;ifaxs website that was what they were charging me when I had a cardcash account back in 1993.

Using Mindzais spreadsheet for compounded CI @ 29.8% APR from dec'93 to date the figures are as follows:

Penalty amount =£1,039.00

Compound interest = £14,862.54

Combined penalty and interest = £15,924.28

interest paid on penalties £107.82

Compound interest on interest = £1,635.74

Combined interest on c.interest = £1,743.56

Total interest £16,521.02

Total inc. interest £17,667.84

 

The above is absolutely laughable isn't it You're right, i'm sure it'd be thrown out of court.

 

Vampiress google CI (not compounded) @ 29.8% (claim date 01-Apr)

Total penalties charged £1,039.00

Interest £2,938.24

Total £3,977.24

 

The above concurs in a round about way with that of mindais if I adjust the statutory 8% to 29.8% (02 -Apr). This means I'll be opting to go for a higher stat rate than that normally awarded by the judge.

The only addition is that mindzais inc. the interest paid on charges £108.82 + 29.8% interest on interest £333.05 = combined interest total £440.87

Total claim inc. interest £4,481.96

This to me looks like a realistic figure.

 

In these figures you say that the total interest paid on charges is around £108.82, but then....

 

After a lot of deliberation I've finally come to a decision. I'm gonna claim beyond the 6 year limitation for total penalties charges, plus authorised interest @ 18.9% + statutory if it comes to it.

I figure I've got more chance of winning this way and saves a great deal of hassle long term. My claim still amounts to £6,074.92 and if you add statutory to that (totalling £8,050.56 to date) comes to a healthy £14,375.49 with court fees This amount is increasing daily so lets see what they come up with.

Thanks to all of you that have helped me on my merry way, especially Lucid, westy, progenic and deller your input is invaluable

All that is left to say is to wish me luck

 

So going by your original calculations your charges are £1039 so how are you making a total of £6074.92? You've just clarified that by saying plus authorised interest @ 18.9% you meant the interest they have charged you. Have you added on every single bit of interest you have ever paid - if so this is wrong and still amounts to an extortionate amount. And with that aside your statutory interest also amounts to a ridiculous amount - £8000? That's so much more than the all inclusive £3977 you quoted in your initial post, and that was adding 29.8% interest as a simple calcualtion.

 

Sorry about the very long message but either I'm completely missing something here or you've got your calcualtions in a bit of a mess.

 

Lucid

[isidore]

I think a very important point here, is pick one spreadsheet and dump all the rest. All the varying figures and different calculations and such is getting really confusing for us let alone you! I would recommend you stick with Mindzai's purely down to the fact you have all the variations available to you on one sheet. Don't compare it to others as they are more than likely outdated (no offence to anyone else, jmo).

[lucid]

Good point T4FF but I don't think Muggins' varying figures is just down to different spreadsheets. I think there is some confusion as to what is claimable and what isn't.

 

Muggins, I hope my in depth quoting post hasn't put you off posting. I'm not trying to make you out to be in the wrong but I'm quite concerned that in the space of a day (we started communicating on this thread yesterday) you have got such massively different figures and seemingly a different approach to your claim. I'm just concerned that you might be misunderstanding certain aspects of this (which isn't too difficult) and I think it's important to clear it up before you begin the process - just in case there's mistakes.

 

Lucid

[muggins73]

Sorry Lucid for completely confusing you, I for one haven't known whether I was coming or going for several days now:o

 

The spreadsheet I have been given is a little different from others, in that it isn't based on splitting and calculating the actual interest accrued each month and apportioning it.

I was o/d for most part but not the whole period, (hence the change from the unauthorised borrowing rate of 29.8% to the authorised rate of 18.9%) so it simply adds interest at

whatever rate you enter. It is one of Vampiress'.All previous calculations have at present been scrapped. My workings are now based on the fact that they have taken £1,039.00 in penalties (which is undisputed) + compounded interest at their authorised borrowing rate of 18.9% = £5,035.92 giving

Total charges + interest £6,074.92

My claim is based purely on my 'actual loss', or nearest to it given the limited resources, which is why the statutory rate of 8% is then added if i have to begin court proceedings.

 

Hope this helps clarify things;)

[muggins73]

I think a very important point here, is pick one spreadsheet and dump all the rest. All the varying figures and different calculations and such is getting really confusing for us let alone you! I would recommend you stick with Mindzai's purely down to the fact you have all the variations available to you on one sheet. Don't compare it to others as they are more than likely outdated (no offence to anyone else, jmo).

 

Fair point T4FF, and I for one concur:)

 

I think what would be increasingly helpful to all that may choose to go down the CCI route is a rather detailed but simple step-by-step guide to contractual interest. I am obviously not just talking about spreadsheets here.

I've over researched and after reading various threads have come up with more questions than answers. More often than not the answers I have received are often conflicting which only helps to confuse matters further.

I do not pretend to know the ins and out of the law, but I do know how to gather information and am more than aware of what should and should not be claimed.

The figures I have entered in the spreadsheets provided have been accurate. I believe they are extortionately high, in somecases, due to the timescale I am opting to reclaim. And having sent these workings to trusted members of this forum they have said the same.

 

muggs:D

[doo]

muggins, how right you are in regard to a step-by-step guide to contractual interest - when you first set out it is most confusing. There are many on this site claiming CCI with many successes.

[lucid]

Sorry Lucid for completely confusing you, I for one haven't known whether I was coming or going for several days now:o

 

The spreadsheet I have been given is a little different from others, in that it isn't based on splitting and calculating the actual interest accrued each month and apportioning it.

I was o/d for most part but not the whole period, (hence the change from the unauthorised borrowing rate of 29.8% to the authorised rate of 18.9%) so it simply adds interest at

whatever rate you enter. It is one of Vampiress'.All previous calculations have at present been scrapped. My workings are now based on the fact that they have taken £1,039.00 in penalties (which is undisputed) + compounded interest at their authorised borrowing rate of 18.9% = £5,035.92 giving

Total charges + interest £6,074.92

My claim is based purely on my 'actual loss', or nearest to it given the limited resources, which is why the statutory rate of 8% is then added if i have to begin court proceedings.

 

Hope this helps clarify things;)

 

Hi muggins,

 

Sorry but I'm no sure I completely understand still - but that'sprobably down to being tired. Can I just clear something up? Is the £5035.92 interest (compounded at 18.9%) you have earnt on the original £1039 of charges? If so then you can't then add statutory interest onto this and due to the amount it would increase your claim I seriously advise against doing it.

 

Again I apologise if I'm just not getting this. Lucid

[muggins73]

Just been catching up....now I'm confused :?

 

Muggins, if you are going for contractual interest @ 18.9%, you CAN'T then add the statuatory 8% on top which is what you said you were going to do in post 206, now you've said you're not in post 208.....I think.

 

 

It sounds to me in reading along that you might still be confused with what interest people are referring to and when.

 

For a bit of clarity (as I can see you like ). You can claim...

 

Charges & debited interest then statuatory (if it goes to court) OR

Charges & debited interest & contractual interest and not statuatory

EDIT

By debited interest I am referring to the DR charges on your statement on a monthly basis these will be the figures you are placing into the right hand side of the spreadsheet. By statuatory I am referring to the s69 statuatory interest you would add to your claim once you get to court stage then obviously the contractual interest is compound contractual at either the authorised or unauthorised rate.

 

You can do a mixture of the two. It still sounds as though you are doing something different to this? It might just be me misunderstanding but I just wanted to check.

 

Hi muggins,

 

Sorry but I'm no sure I completely understand still - but that'sprobably down to being tired. Can I just clear something up? Is the £5035.92 interest (compounded at 18.9%) you have earnt on the original £1039 of charges? If so then you can't then add statutory interest onto this and due to the amount it would increase your claim I seriously advise against doing it.

 

Again I apologise if I'm just not getting this. Lucid

 

I'm getting a warm fuzzy feeling, you pair are like two mother hens, Allyxia used to be like this:D

 

When I was originally given this spreadsheet, I asked why statutory was being claimed when everything I've read, and had confirmed, tells me otherwise if claiming CI. For the life of me, I can't remember word for word the reasoning behind it:oops: I'm back and forth to the computer dealing with the 3 kids, one of which is ill, and I am too absolutely cream crackered. I've emailed my source and am currently waiting on a response. i ask if you'd be kind enough to let me get back to you.

Rest assured I am not about to do anything that might jepardize my claim. I am in no rush to send anything out if there is any possibility that the figures may be wrong. Both your concerns are duly noted and I am taking steps to either dismiss them or confirm that you are completely right and I'm a plonker. Just don't get upset with me. i am glad for the interaction, believe me:)

[lucid]

Muggins,

 

There's no chance I'll get upset with you - or anything similiar. I'm just very concerned in the dramatic change in figures after 1 day. But fortunately you're obviously sensible and won't be starting until you have got it cleared up.

 

Disregarding the statutory interest for the moment are you able to clarify if the figure of £5035.92 is as I described? Is it interest you have earnt on you original £1039 in charges?

 

Anyway I'm off for today - far too tired and have an early start tomorrow.

 

Thanks, Lucid

[muggins73]

According to this particular spreadsheet yes....

 

....and is different to vamps CCI spreadsheet (with new authorised rate of 18.9%) by £1135.76.

 

Ditto, head hurts too, need sleep.

 

Hopefully I'll have the answers we both seek tommorrow. should be able to wrap this up once n' for all.

 

Nite, nite and thanks again:)

[lucid]

OK thanks Muggins. That's cleared up one aspect of it anyway.

 

Now I really am off.

 

Lucid

[muggins73]

Excellent, you can go to sleep a happier bunny in the knowledge that you are not, infact, nuts:D

 

catch up tommorrow i hope

 

muggs:)

[isidore]

On the step by step guide, I totally agree. It is possibly the one glaring omission from this otherwise wonderful site (and maybe one set of spreadsheets ).

 

I would guess in the defence of the site that this is potentially not possible as I would guess there is right now now correct way of claiming it. That said, a beginners guide to it would be a lot of help even if it was basic guidelines.

[bill-k]

On the step by step guide, I totally agree. It is possibly the one glaring omission from this otherwise wonderful site (and maybe one set of spreadsheets ).

 

I would guess in the defence of the site that this is potentially not possible as I would guess there is right now now correct way of claiming it. That said, a beginners guide to it would be a lot of help even if it was basic guidelines.

I feel your pain, T4FF.

[muggins73]

Ok ladies and gentlemen here goes.....the explaination

 

You can claim back your demonstrable losses plus statutory interest.

 

Demonstrable losses are:

 

The charges +

The interest the bank has debited on those charges.

 

That is your ACTUAL LOSS.

The statutory interest (8%) is recompense for loss, or denial, of benefit - in other words, while the bank had that money, you couldn't do anything with it, like place it on deposit and earn interest, invest it, use it for holidays, etc, etc. you may even have had to borrow money in order to pay for things like holidays, children's shoes, etc, etc., so you CAN claim it in addition.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, my claim will be made up of

 

Charges

Debit Interest (authorised rate 18.9%) on each and every item

Statutory interest at 8% on each and every item.

 

I am waiting on another response to resolve the following, and I think this is where I am still alittle foggy:confused:, as indeed, 'The contractual rate is a rate the bank charges under its Terms and Conditions (T&Cs), which are the effective contract. It can be either the authorised or the unauthorised rate of interest'. Which according to all the guidelines you are unable to claim this in addition to statutory, and why poor Lucid is soooo concerned:)

 

Will get back to you on that one.

[isidore]

Muggins, as far as my understanding of the process goes, I would say this is still incorrect.

 

The error is in your definition of debit interest (or at least what I call debit interest). Debit interest is the charge that is shown as a debit on your statement and is calculated as the amount that is directly proportioned to the charges for that month.

 

For example, say you had a £600 overdraft and £100 intrest free and this month have been charged £50 in charges and £5 in overdraft interest (both show as debits on your statement and are probably debited within days of each other). The amount of your overdraft that is being charged overdraft interest is £500 (£600 less the interest free bit of £100). Your charges make up 10% of your chargeable overdraft (50 / 500) and therefore you are able to claim back 10% of your overdraft interest for that month, which would amount to 50p (10% of £5).

 

What you call authorised rate of 18 odd % is CONTRACTUAL INTEREST and is so (from my understanding of it) whether you are using the authorised rate or the unauthorised rate.

 

 

Taking all that into account, you can either claim your charges, debit interest and statuatory interest or charges and contractual interest. You can't claim a mixture of statutory and contractual.