Packlink/Hermes parcel delivered with its contents stolen ***Settled in Full***

[BankFodder]

Quote

The claimant by way of third party rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 is suing used the courier service provided by the defendant courier company which agreed to send a "PNY GeForce GTX 1660 6GB XLR8 Gaming Overclocked Edition MiniITX" graphics card to a UK address third party. Reference number XXX. The defendant company has admitted that the contents of the parcel were lost by them and that they repackaged the parcel was repackaged with the incorrect contents. The defendants have refused to compensate the claimant. 

The value of the item sent was £290.00. The delivery fee was £5.78. The claimant was partially reimbursed £29.20 by Packlink.

The claimant claims full reimbursement of £266.58 (item value plus delivery fee minus Packlink less £29.20 already received compensation) plus interest pursuant to section 69, County Courts Act 1984

 

 

[Mauro_Shampoo]

The webiste is asking me for a timeline of events, how's this?

• 20/08/2021 - I sold a "PNY GeForce GTX 1660 6GB XLR8 Gaming Overclocked Edition MiniITX" graphics card for £290 on eBay and posted it to the buyer using Packlink/Hermes

• 23/08/2021 - The parcel was delivered to the buyer but, instead of having the graphics card inside, it had an Asos box with a pair of sandals

• 24/08/2021 – I reported the incident to the Met Police (crime reference number is 4224689/21) fully refunded the buyer, and opened a claim with Packlink

• 15/09/2021 - Packlink sent me a "Goods Compensation" of £25,00 + "Postage cost refund" of £4,20 and refused to compensate me further

• 20/09/2021 – I opened a claim with Hermes asking for a refund

• ·       21/09/2021 – Hermes confirmed that the contents of my parcel were lost and the parcel was repackaged with the incorrect contents but refused to compensate me further

• ·       23/09/2021 – I sent a Letter of Claim to Hermes requesting a full refund of the item price, £290, as well as the delivery fee, £5.78, totalling £ 266.58 (290 + 5.78 - 29.20 paid by Packlink)

• 25/09/2021 – Hermes refused to compensate me and advised that the next step would be to enter litigation with them

Screenshot 2021-10-02 at 21.04.42.pdf

[BankFodder]

I haven't seen this form before but I expect that you are correct in the way to handle it. I wonder if my site team colleague @Andyorch has seen it

[AndyOrch]

No new to me .....part of the new beta court claim service looking at the top of the form

[Mauro_Shampoo]

Yeah, since it's a new service I'm trying to put in as many info so that this thread can be referenced for other people - in terms of the events I listed, do you see anything that should be added/ removed?

Edited October 4, 2021 by Mauro_Shampoo

[Mauro_Shampoo]

Next step is to provide evidence (print attached).
My idea was to attach the photos of what I sent/what was received (also attached) and my communication with Hermes support. Any thoughts?

Not sure if worth attaching the Packlink case as well?

pictures.pdf Screen Shot 2021-10-04 at 12.57.40 pm.pdf

[Mauro_Shampoo]

Claim submitted

Your claim number:

xxxxxxxxx

Download your claim form

What happens next

HERMES PARCELNET LIMITED has until 4pm on 1 November 2021 to respond to your claim. They can request an extra 14 days if they need it.

You can request a County Court Judgment against them if they don’t respond by the deadline.

[Mauro_Shampoo]

Hi all, got a response today (after Hermes requested an extension from Nov 1st to Nov 15th.

HERMES PARCELNET LIMITED has rejected your claim.

 

Here it is in full:

 

Quote

2. Defendant’s response to the claim
Defendant’s response I dispute all the claim

Why they dispute the claim
2.1. 1. If any part of the Particulars of Claim are not expressly admitted or denied below, such parts are denied by the Defendant entirely.

2.2. 2. The Defendant serves this Defence subject to the following objection to the manner in which this claim is brought. The Particulars of Claim fail to provide details about any contractual relationship which is alleged to exist between the Claimant and the Defendant.

2.3. Background

2.4. 3. The Defendant is and was at all material times a company limited by shares in the business of providing delivery services on a business to business, business to consumer and consumer to consumer basis.

2.5. 4. In addition to providing delivery service to its own customers, the Defendant also works as a subcontractor to provide delivery services to customers of PACKLINK Shipping S.L (“Packlink”) who are a company registered in, Spain with the number CIF B83357863 whose registered address is Calle Amaltea, 9 28045 Madrid pursuant to a pre-existing commercial agreement to carry out delivery services.

2.6. 5. Packlink provides delivery services to users of the online auction site/retail site ‘eBay.co.uk’. eBay.co.uk users can opt to use the Defendant’s delivery services via Packlink. This means that the Defendant does not have any contractual relationship with Packlink ‘s customers. They, as is the case with the Claimant, contract solely with Packlink.

2.7. 6. As there is no contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, the Defendant only has limited (tracking) information about the parcel.

2.8. 7. The tracking information shows that on or around 21 August 2021, the Claimant’s parcel entered the Defendant’s delivery network after the Claimant sent the parcel via one of the Defendant’s ParcelShops.

2.9. 8. The last tracking point for the Parcel was on 23 August 2021 upon delivery to a neighbour. There is nothing in the Defendant’s tracking information to indicate that the Parcel was tampered with in any way as alleged.
2.10. The Claim Value

2.11. 9. The Claimant seeks to recover £304.27.

2.12. 10. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the value of the claim.

2.13. The Defence

2.14. 11. The Defendant denies that it is liable to pay the Claimant the damages claimed for breach of contract and/or negligence.

2.15. 12. This Defence is a response to the Particulars of Claim which are set out in the ‘Particulars of Claim’ on page 2 of the claim form

2.16. Claim Form – Particulars of Claim

2.17. 13. The first sentence of the Particulars of Claim is neither admitted nor denied. In respect of the Claimant claiming under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 (the ‘Act’), the Claimant is put to strict proof on this point. The Defendant’s position is that the Act does not apply in these circumstances because P2G’s Terms and Conditions do not entitle the Claimant to claim against the Defendant under the Act, nor do they confer a benefit on third parties. In respect of the contents of the Parcel, the Defendant has limited information as to the contents of the Parcel and the Claimant is put to strict proof.

2.18. 14. The second sentence of the Particulars of Claim is admitted. The Defendant couriered a Parcel with that tracking number pursuant to the Contract with Packlink.

2.19. 15. The third sentence of the Particulars of Claim is admitted.

2.20. 16. The fourth sentence of the Particulars of Claim is admitted. The Claimant does not have a contract with the Defendant and liability lies with Packlink.

2.21. 17. The fifth to seventh sentences of the Particulars of Claim are neither admitted nor denied and the Claimant is put to strict proof.

2.22. No contractual relationship

2.23. 18. There is no contract between the Claimant and the Defendant.

2.24. 19. The Claimant entered into a contract with Packlink.

2.25. 20. This was made very clear during the order process.

2.26. 21. The Claimant should desist with this claim and contact Packlink.
2.27. Claim for compensation

2.28. 22. The Claimant claims £304.27.

2.29. 23. Packlink has already paid the Claimant £29.20 in full and final settlement of this matter which is the full amount the Claimant is entitled to under the terms of their Contract with Packlink.

2.30. 24. As explained above, it is denied that the Defendant owes the Claimant £304.27

 

The highlights for me are that they admit they lost and repackaged my parcel with something else:

"The third sentence of the Particulars of Claim is admitted."  where my 3rd sentence is "The defendant company has admitted that the contents of the parcel were lost by them and that they repackaged the parcel with the incorrect contents."

 

however they say "The Defendant’s position is that the Act does not apply in these circumstances because P2G’s Terms and Conditions do not entitle the Claimant to claim against the Defendant under the Act, nor do they confer a benefit on third parties. ... The Claimant does not have a contract with the Defendant and liability lies with Packlink."

 

I now responded that I wish to proceed with the Claim and accepted Telephone Mediation.

 

You’ve rejected their response

Your claim number: XXXXXXXX

15 November 2021

What happens next

You agreed to try free mediation.

Your mediation appointment will be arranged within 28 days.

 

@BankFodder, anything particular that I should prepare for the mediation? I have my evidence and timelines, and they are only disputing that they are liable (not that the item was lost). Guidance would be appreciated

 

@dx100uk/ @Andyorch
FYI - I saw on other posts that the N180 DQ was paper, but perhaps as part of the new beta court claim service the DQ was actually sent online (already received a digitally signed copy)

[BankFodder]

Once again, have a read of the other stories on this sub- forum. It is one of their usual excuses for denying liability and we have dealt with it very often.

If you familiarise yourself then you will understand the next steps and also what your argument should be.

Then come back here and we can clarify anything that you are not certain about.

I am curious that they say that their contract with P2G excludes the rights of third parties. I would want to see that.

If that really is the case then they would have made that very public a long time ago and also I doubt whether P2G would be very happy that Hermes is prepared to report all the liability over their heads.

[Mauro_Shampoo]

Hi @BankFodder, so yes I have read other cases and the mediation guide here and am ok with the general process, my (now that I read it, poorly crafted) question was geared more towards why Hermes thinks the Act doesn't apply to them and if you think it's worth preparing to comment on that for the mediation call or not - potentially this may just be a courts matter.

The Act does have an exception for "a contract for the carriage of goods by rail or road", so maybe that's the angle they want to play when they talk about their contract with Packlink
 

Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999

WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

---

An Act to make provision for the enforcement of contractual terms by third parties.

 

[BankFodder]

That exclusion is not applicable here  as far as i can see because we are not dealing with a contract which is subject to an international convention.

 

Hermes don't think that the act is not applicable to them.

They simply want you to think that the act is not applicable to them

[Mauro_Shampoo]

Update: mediation had been booked for December 20th, but close to that date Hermes said they wouldn't be available and requested that it was moved to the 29th.

I just got a call from the mediator saying that she could not get a hold of anyone at Hermes, so it was not going to happen today and she'd try to book a new date in the next couple of weeks.

Can Hermes just keep not showing up if they agreed to it? And is it now the case to move this to court?
Thanks and have a great holiday season everyone

[BankFodder]

Interesting. I'm not sure what the next step is after repeated mediation failures.

Are you able to telephone the mediation service and ask them?

[Mauro_Shampoo]

So we spoke over the phone and she said she'd try to book again for the coming weeks. I'm waiting on that, but if I don't hear back from her I'll probably just move this to court

[BankFodder]

Yes I would suggest that you make it clear that three strikes and they're out. One more failed mediation appointment and you will go to court and also you will be asking the court to exercise its exceptional discretion to award you costs on the litigant in person scale.

Try to start making a brief note of the time that you have spent on this – including learning, preparation, on this forum – et cetera. £18 per hour. Put it into a spreadsheet

[Mauro_Shampoo]

Today I received an email from HMCT that this is going to court. I'll read in the forum here about how to prepare the letters that I'll need to serve to the court and to Hermes (have until Feb 14th for that) and will come back.

I'll also update you guys if Hermes reaches out with an offer outside of mediation, as I've read others have received.

Thanks for the tip on claiming the time spent!

[dx100uk]

what form number N157?

 

dx

 

[Mauro_Shampoo]

I am not sure. Attached is the court order with my name and case# redactedclaim-direction-order.pdf

[Mauro_Shampoo]

Yesterday I received the email below form Hermes' legal

 

Quote

Good Afternoon

By way of brief introduction, I am a member of Hermes Legal Department and I have taken over conduct of the attached claim you made against Hermes.

I write with a view to settle the matter.

You are claiming compensation in the sum of £304.27.

Hermes position is that you entered a contract with Packlink Shipping S.L, not Hermes Parcelnet Limited.  Therefore, Hermes are not liable for the loss of the parcel, as your contract was with Packlink Shipping S.L.

As a gesture of goodwill Hermes are willing to offer you £266.58 in full and final settlement of your claim, which is the value of the parcel and the delivery fee, as stated on your claim form.

We also take this opportunity to apologise to you for the issues you have experienced when using our services. Hermes delivers in excess of 350 million parcels each year and unfortunately sometimes things go wrong.  In this particular case, Hermes recognises that it has not provided services to you in line with our usual high standards and Hermes is sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

If you would like to accept this offer please provide me with your account details at your earliest convenience and I will arrange payment.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards

 

I replied saying that I would be happy to settle but only if they paid the full claim amount plus updated interest, totalling £309.29.

 

Today Hermes emailed me agreeing to it and saying the funds' transfer has been scheduled. Once I receive them, I will update you guys to close the thread and inform the court that my claim has been settled.

[JonPR]

Excellent result! Well done to all concerned. This will be massively useful in a similar claim I am launching: sold a vintage model steam engine (£190) via Ebay, dispatched Packlink/Hermes, vanished en-route. I've only started the claim today, so it's possible they may simply settle.  

[BankFodder]

2 minutes ago, JonPR said:

Excellent result! Well done to all concerned. This will be massively useful in a similar claim I am launching: sold a vintage model steam engine (£190) via Ebay, dispatched Packlink/Hermes, vanished en-route. I've only started the claim today, so it's possible they may simply settle.  

 

Welcome to the forum. I'm sure we can help you but please will you start your own thread on this story.

The more individual threads we have, the more we climb up the Google ranking is when people search for Hermes and then the more people find us and the more help we can give.

[dx100uk]

Please hit create or + in the top red banner

[JonPR]

2 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

 

Welcome to the forum. I'm sure we can help you but please will you start your own thread on this story.

The more individual threads we have, the more we climb up the Google ranking is when people search for Hermes and then the more people find us and the more help we can give.

I intend to start a new thread as-and-when. I'm giving them time to respond to the claim, on the off-chance that they settle. Should they do so, I'll include details in that thread. 

[BankFodder]

Frankly I think you will regret your optimistic approach. How much time have you decided to give them before you leap into action?

[JonPR]

72 hours is reasonable. I've been down this path (successfully!) a couple of times before. I'm a bit busy for the next few days so don't have time just now.