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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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PCM/Trace/Gladstone 2*PCN's - ignored everything - Residential Parking - now gladstones letter


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no just a snotty letter not compliant to anything

 

just get free proof of posting.

 

post your idea up here 1st 

 

the best way to search CAG is to use our enhanced google search box

snotty letter

 

if you use the search in the top red toolbar you need to add a + sign between each word so you would type

 

snotty+letter

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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How about something like this?

 

 

Dear Will and John,

 

Re: PCN no.XXXXX and no.XXXXX

 

cheers for your Letter Before Claim.  I had a good laugh at the idea you actually really thought I'd take such tripe seriously and cough up!

 

As usual you'll have been too bone idle to do any due diligence before sending out your bilge otherwise you'd have seen this is a residential parking case.  You know and I know and now you know that I know why your client isn't entitled to a red cent in such cases.

 

Your client has also scored a big own goal by adding a whopping £120 in Unicorn Food Tax.  Oh dear oh dear oh dear.  Judges don't like these made-up sums, do they?

 

Your client can either drop this hopeless case or get a good kicking in court where I will go for an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) and spend it all on a foreign holiday now that we can all travel again, while all the time laughing at your client's expense.

 

I look forward to your deafening silence.

 

COPIED TO PARKING CONTROL MANAGEMENT (UK) LTD

 

 

Wait and see what the other regulars think today, then if there is no retweaking send off copies both to Gladstones and to PCM tomorrow by 2nd class post, and make sure you get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office.

 

Any competent company would see "residential parking" and give up as they know full well it is very difficult for them to win such cases.  However, they may be blinded by £££££ as there are two tickets.  I've tried to hint that you know the law but at the same time tried not to play our cards too early.

Edited by FTMDave
Typo

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Tha 

17 minutes ago, FTMDave said:

How about something like this?

 

 

Dear Will and John,

 

Re: PCN no.XXXXX and no.XXXXX

 

cheers for your Letter Before Claim.  I had a good laugh at the idea you actually really thought I'd take such tripe seriously and cough up!

 

As usual you'll have been too bone idle to do any due diligence before sending out your bilge otherwise you'd have seen this is a residential parking case.  You know and I know and now you know that I know why your client isn't entitled to a red cent in such cases.

 

Your client has also scored a big own goal by adding a whopping £120 in Unicorn Food Tax.  Oh dear oh dear oh dear.  Judges don't like these made-up sums, do they?

 

Your client can either drop this hopeless case or get a good kicking in court where I will go for an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) and spend it all on a foreign holiday now that we can all travel again, while all the time laughing at your client's expense.

 

I look forward to your deafening silence.

 

COPIED TO PARKING CONTROL MANAGEMENT (UK) LTD

 

 

Wait and see what the other regulars think today, then if there is no retweaking send off copies both to Gladstones and to PCM tomorrow by 2nd class post, and make sure you get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office.

 

Any competent company would see "residential parking" and give up as they know full well it is very difficult for them to win such cases.  However, they may be blinded by £££££ as there are two tickets.  I've tried to hint that you know the law but at the same time tried not to play our cards too early.

thank you so much I will await for confirmation from others and prepare and send the 2 copies. Thank you for your help as always 

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I've just gone back and looked at the PCN's you posted back in June.

 

They sent two NTK's for one of the "alleged" breaches presumably because the first one did not comply with PoFA.

 

They then sent you another version of the NTK which was also not compliant with PoFA. Total muppets. And of course the other PCN was also non compliant.

 

 I find it hard to believe that they are even threatening to go to Court with you. There is no way on God's earth that they can win if you bring their failures to the Court's attention.

 

As your PCNs were both windscreen tickets then when they follow up with their Notice to Keeper  comes under section 8 of PoFA and in s8 2] it states "must". As such the procedures and wording must be virtually identical to the procedures and words in the Act.

 

So in s8 2] [f] it states "

(f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;"

 

In their version they ignore most of those words and then say "This is inclusive of  recovery action and is in accordance with Schedule 4 of the Act. Which it isn't.

 

Edited by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx
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22 minutes ago, lookinforinfo said:

I've just gone back and looked at the PCN's you posted back in June.

 

They sent two NTK's for one of the "alleged" breaches presumably because the first one did not comply with PoFA.

 

They then sent you another version of the NTK which was also not compliant with PoFA. Total muppets. And of course the other PCN was also non compliant.

 

 I find it hard to believe that they are even threatening to go to Court with you. There is no way on God's earth that they can win if you bring their failures to the Court's attention.

 

As your PCNs were both windscreen tickets then when they follow up with their Notice to Keeper  comes under section 8 of PoFA and in s8 2] it states "must". As such the procedures and wording must be virtually identical to the procedures and words in the Act.

 

So in s8 2] [f] it states "

(f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;"

 

In their version they ignore most of those words and then say "This is inclusive of  recovery action and is in accordance with Schedule 4 of the Act. Which it isn't.

 

Thank you for having a read through the thread. I shall prepare the letter and send the 2 copies or should I add anything else to it? Thank you

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Munksky just type

No need to keep hitting quote please

Makes the thread twice as long and diff to find your reply start on mobile/small screen s

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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FTM Dave's take on the snotty letter is a decent response to Gladstones, the solicitors most likely to lose their clients money for them in court

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Send the letters as drafted tomorrow.  The aim at the moment is to convince them they would be on to hiding to nothing if they did do court, so best for them to leave you alone and concentrate on some other mug.

 

Don't play all your cards, otherwise the PPC will simply make up lies to counter your arguments.

 

LFI's excellent work will come in handy later on if they do do court, but hopefully it won't come to that.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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  • 3 months later...

Hi guys,

I’m back as Gladstone’s contacted me by phone and I picked up and said I’m busy call me back later and never did answer

. I have now received a court claim form but for 1 pcn that is different to ones I have been fighting.

Instead it’s for one at my previous property address which was also private property

. It’s like they’ve ignored the 2 I have been fighting and sending letters about and chosen one from 15/01/2017 and decided to take me to court about this one which I don’t even remember about as I only bought the car 02/01/2017. 

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I have 1 claim form for 1 PCN but in my other thread I was fighting against 2 pcns from same people company UKPC but for my old car but current address.

 

Now they have sent me a claim form for my old car but my old address.

 

a whole new PCN that I wasn’t aware of or been fighting for past year. 

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Create a new thread

get the new sticky for a ppc clamform done on th e new thread and get aos+cpr done.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

I’ve just received a letter from Gladstone’s saying that I don’t have a defence case for these 2 parking tickets and that they will proceed with the court case if I do not pay £320. BUT they are willing to accept £200 to stop any legal proceedings??? 
 

I am going to ignore or should I reply? 

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std letter they always send if you read a few threads here.

 

but you've not had a claimform nor filed a defence for the one they are writing about? so...BS.

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 years later...

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