Amazon won't let me have my purchased digital content?

[craigten]

In February this year, Amazon closed my account. I received the following email:

 

We have closed your Amazon.co.uk accounts. 

If you had open orders on this account, those orders were canceled when we closed the account.

Any digital content that you purchased with this account is still available to you. To access the content, click the “Manage Your Content and Devices” link on the Your Orders menu on Amazon.co.uk.

 

I queried the fact that being as I couldn't log in to my account, the media on Amazon (films) and audiobooks from it's sister company, Audible, were no longer available to me. I then received the following email:

I am sorry to hear you have been unable to access your digital content.
I have contacted the relevant team for information on how your films and audible books can be accessed and I will follow up with you once I have heard back from them

 

Then a week later I received this email:

Regarding your digital content, I'm afraid we won't be able to assist in accessing that. Instead, I will process a full refund for any digital content purchased. I will follow up within 3 - 5 business days to confirm this has been done.

Then this:

I wanted to let you know that we have compiled a total for your digital purchases to be refunded.
The total amount to be refunded is £68.85. We can process a refund to any payment card that is associated with your Amazon account. if you can confirm the last 4 digits of the card you would like me to make the payment to, i will make the necessary arrangements straight away.

 

I thought that once purchased, any media is actually yours to keep?

[BankFodder]

Are you able to check the terms and conditions. Firstly, it is quite certain that the digital content doesn't belong to you. Digital content is only ever licensed. However, you would be worth understanding whether the licences a perpetual non-exclusive licence – or it is capable of being limited or even terminated by Amazon.

If you can check that please and come back here.

I'm wondering whether there is in some value in dealing with this as well as your missing thermal camera in one go.

[craigten]

I will ask.....but they are not very helpful when it comes to answering questions.

 

I really would like to keep these two separate, please.

[AndyOrch]

https://www.hants.gov.uk/business/tradingstandards/consumeradvice/goodsandservices/digitalcontentsupply

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/sep/03/do-you-own-your-digital-content

 

https://www.choose.co.uk/guide/who-owns-digital-content-itunes-movies-ebooks.html

[Manxman in exile]

If there is something outside of their control preventing them giving you access to the content, there's not much more they can do other than give you a refund - and if it's a full refund that's probably a good deal.

 

What outcome would you like?  (Bear in mind that neither you nor a court can make them do something that is not possible for them to do).

[BankFodder]

I disagree with this. If their systems mean that they going to breach of contract then that doesn't exonerate them.

Also, I don't think that a refund is a good deal. It doesn't compensate you at all for not being able to watch the films repeatedly over the next few years.

If Amazon have taken this action for some other unrelated reason, then it's up to them to address the problem and it's not for the customer to have to accept the shortcomings of their system.

I'm sorry but I can't accept this kind of acquiescence

[Manxman in exile]

Well good luck to the OP in sorting this one out then.  I think if they've offered to put him back in the same position as he was pre-contract, it's a good offer - presumably as he has already had some value out of the digital content in question before losing access to it.  I'd be interested if a court pushed them further.

 

I suppose he has nothing to lose with Amazon anyway as if they've already closed his account because of what they consider unusual activity (according to his other thread) he won't be doing business with them again anyway.

[BankFodder]

Contract damages are intended to you but you do position that you would have been had there been no breach.

It is taught damages which are intended to put you back into your pre-incident/breach position.

The offer is a bad offer. It's simply an offer which Amazon thinks will allow them to walk away from the situation and shrug their shoulders.

 

[craigten]

I guess you would think that I would.....but I do agree with BF. I don't suppose it matters....but I get the feel that there is spite in the way they have dealt with me.

 

By the way, I have today asked the question re Ts and Cs and the digital purchases.

[BankFodder]

I'm sure there is no spite. I'm sure there is nothing personal in it – it is simply the way their systems deal with these kind of problems. They have much bigger fish to fry than simply targeting little individuals

[craigten]

You are, of course, correct, emotion got the better of me.

[BankFodder]

I think that the discussion on the other issue – the missing thermal camera has ended now. There is nothing further to say.

Now to turn to the digital content.

Firstly you have placed yourself in a very vulnerable position because the evidence in respect of your pattern of returning items is not good – especially in respect of the most recent item – the thermal camera which has been dealt with on the other thread.

I'm certainly quite satisfied that the reimbursement they have offered you, the refund of the cost of the digital content – is not adequate because although you have your money, you are permanently deprived of the use of the content.  You could consider an action against them for breach of contract – although I'm not sure what the eventual solution would be. I can imagine Amazon would pay you a gesture of goodwill in order to get rid of the problem. If it went to a court, all you can expect there would be damages – and maybe not an awful lot of it.

However, in order to do that I think will have a long slog. I'm certain you would win – but I'm equally certain that Amazon would settle something before the case – but it might not be enough to make you feel compensated and certainly it would have the effect I think of placing a red marker – or whatever against your name on your Amazon account and make it even more difficult to open up an account with them in future.

I'm wondering whether the best solution would simply be to start writing a contrite letter to Amazon which might just find its way to a real person who be prepared to exercise some discretion.

The chances of this are slim – and if they did reopen your account then I think you would have absolutely to stop returning items.

I have some sympathy with Amazon and other online retailers. The cooling off period and the rules relating to returns are pretty generous, I think, and I am quite sure that because of that they are very heavily abused by some people.

Personally, I wouldn't think it would be at all unreasonable that if people order items which they want to return simply because they are the wrong colour or something like that, that they should bear the costs of return. That would probably restore a certain balance between online purchasers and online traits traders.

 

[craigten]

Can you give me a few pointers where to start, please?

[craigten]

On 18/03/2021 at 08:11, BankFodder said:

I'm certainly quite satisfied that the reimbursement they have offered you, the refund of the cost of the digital content – is not adequate because although you have your money, you are permanently deprived of the use of the content.  You could consider an action against them for breach of contract – although I'm not sure what the eventual solution would be. I can imagine Amazon would pay you a gesture of goodwill in order to get rid of the problem. If it went to a court, all you can expect there would be damages – and maybe not an awful lot of it.

However, in order to do that I think will have a long slog. I'm certain you would win – but I'm equally certain that Amazon would settle something before the case – but it might not be enough to make you feel compensated and certainly it would have the effect I think of placing a red marker – or whatever against your name on your Amazon account and make it even more difficult to open up an account with them in future.

Thank you for this. I am keen to go ahead and try, it would be interesting. Re any 'red markers', that ship has sailed. I sure would appreciate a few pointers as to where to start on this?

[Manxman in exile]

First thing you need to do is to uncover the T&Cs of the digital content you have purchased and determine what rights to the content you've actually bought.

 

For example, is access restricted in anyway or is it unlimited, is there a limit to the number of times you can access it, do you only have access to it during a limited time period, can you download it to a permanent format etc etc? 

 

Without knowing what rights of access your contract actually entitles you to, it's difficult to advise what approach is best to take.

 

I've never bought anything from Amazon, but I would expect their T&Cs to include something to the effect that any purchase of digital content is linked to your Amazon account, and that if you do anything that causes them to close your account, that they reserve the right to remove your access to the content, or to remove it automatically upon closure.  I do not know if their T&Cs have such a clause, but I would not be surprised if they did.

 

What's interesting, of course, is that they originally suggested that the content would remain available to you, but then said it was not possible for them to return access to you.  (I suspect it is no longer possible because you no longer have an account and they have no intention of letting you have a new one).

 

Once you've found out what the T&Cs are, rather than threatening to sue them etc, I'd send them a polite and contrite (as suggested by BankFodder) letter asking them if they could review their decision about access to the content and reinstate it for you, or offer some alternative way (eg CD or DVD or whatever) for you to access it other than through an Amazon account.

 

You may also want to address BF's point that by removing your access they are denying you future access to content you have already paid for (if that is supported by the T&Cs).

 

If you write a really nice letter it's possible it will reach someone who can make the decision you want.  (If it gets turned down ask if their is anyone else who might decide in your favour.)

 

Only if none of that works would I consider suing them*.  They might make an out of court settlement or they may dig their heels in.  You've already annoyed them enough to ban you** and they might decide the offer they've made to fully refund you is a fair and reasonable one and they won't be offering any more.

 

It's up to you if you think it's worthwhile.

 

*  I suspect if you do end up suing them you can wave goodbye to any future possibility of getting another Amazon a/c.

 

** If what I've read is to be believed, Amazon are quite Draconian about closing accounts so anybody who can be associated to you is probably banned as well.  Same IP address, same postal address, joint bank a/c etc.  If that's the case, you may have nothing to lose if you do sue them.

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Manxman in exile

[craigten]

Good morning and thanks for the help so far.

 

OK, Amazon got back to me re the Ts and Cs:

Their email stated this:

 

Our Kindle Terms & Conditions, Prime Video Terms and Conditions and general Conditions of Use & Sale are at the pages below. I would direct you to point 3 of the Kindle Terms, Point 6 of Prime Video terms and Point 7 of our Conditions of Use for the relevant information relating to the termination of accounts.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201014950

https://www.primevideo.com/help?nodeId=202095490

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&nodeId=201909000

 

To save you scrolling, here are the points he pointed me towards:

Point 3 Kindle Terms:

 

3. General

Personalization. We personalize content and features in the Kindle Store and as part of the Services provided in this Agreement, including by showing you recommendations on features, Kindle Content, and services which might be of interest to you.

Termination. Your rights under this Agreement will automatically terminate if you fail to comply with any term of this Agreement. In case of such termination, you must cease all use of the Service, and Amazon may immediately revoke your access to the Service without refund of any fees. Amazon's failure to insist upon or enforce your strict compliance with this Agreement will not constitute a waiver of any of its rights.

Changes to Service; Amendments. We may change, suspend, or discontinue the Service, in whole or in part, including adding or removing Subscription Content from a Service, at any time without notice. We may amend any of this Agreement's terms at our sole discretion by posting the revised terms on the Amazon.co.uk website. You will be subject to the terms of the Agreement in force at the time that you use the Software or Service.

Applicable Law. Any dispute or claim arising from or relating to this Agreement or the Service is subject to the Applicable Law, liability and all other terms in the Amazon.co.uk Conditions of Use (https://www.amazon.co.uk/conditions).

Exclusion of Liability. Without limiting the exclusion of liability in the Amazon.co.uk Conditions of Use, (1) In no event will our or our software licensor’s total liability to you for all damages (other than as may be required by applicable law in cases involving personal injury) arising out of or related to your use or inability to use the Software exceed the amount of fifty pounds sterling (£50.00); and (2) in addition to any rights to obtain a repair, replacement or refund via your statutory rights, in no event will our or any other Content Provider's aggregate liability to you for all damages arising from your use of the Service (excluding the Software) exceed the amount you actually paid for the Kindle Content or for the aspect of the Service related to your claim for damages. Nothing in this paragraph affects your statutory rights as a consumer or any liability for death, personal injury, or fraud.

 

Point 6 Prime video:

6. ADDITIONAL TERMS

a. Termination. We may terminate your access to the Service, including any subscription available as part of the Service, at our discretion without notice (except as may be required by applicable law). If we do so, we will give you a pro-rated refund of your subscription fee (if any); however, if you violate any of the terms of this Agreement, your rights under this Agreement will automatically terminate without notice, and Amazon may, in its discretion, immediately revoke your access to the Service and to Digital Content without refund of any fees. In such event, you must delete all copies of Digital Content that you have downloaded.

b. Explicit Content. By using the Service, you may encounter content that may be offensive, indecent or objectionable; this content may or may not be identified as having explicit language or other attributes. Nevertheless, you agree to use the Service at your sole risk, and Amazon has no liability to you for any content. Content types, genres, categories, and descriptions are provided for convenience, and Amazon does not guarantee their accuracy.

c. Communications. We may send you promotions or otherwise communicate with you electronically, which may include e-mail, push notification, or posts to your Amazon Message Center, and you hereby consent to receive those communications (unless you are a customer in the UK, European Union, Turkey or Brazil, in which case you separately decide whether or not you wish to receive these communications). These communications will be in accordance with the Amazon Privacy Notice of your Video Marketplace (noted here). To stop receiving marketing communications from Amazon Prime Video, update your marketing communication preferences from Your Account.

d. Modification of Service. Amazon reserves the right to modify, suspend, or discontinue the Service, or any part of the Service, at any time and without notice (except as required by applicable law), and Amazon will not be liable to you should it exercise such rights, even if your ability to use Digital Content is impacted by the change.

e. Amendments. Amazon reserves the right to make changes to this Agreement at any time by posting the revised terms in connection with the Service or on your Video Marketplace (noted here). To the maximum extent permitted by law, your continued use of the Service or Software following any changes will constitute your acceptance of such changes. However, any increase in subscription fee will not apply until your subscription is renewed.

f. Reservation of Rights; Waiver. The Service, Software and the Digital Content embody intellectual property that is protected by law. Copyright owners of Digital Content are intended third-party beneficiaries under the Agreement. Our failure to insist upon or enforce your strict compliance with the Agreement will not constitute a waiver of any of our rights.

g. Disputes/Binding Arbitration/Conditions of Use. Any dispute or claim arising from or relating to this Agreement or the Service is subject to the governing law, disclaimer of warranties and limitation of liability, binding arbitration and class action waiver (if applicable), and all other terms in the Amazon Conditions of Use of your Video Marketplace (noted here). You agree to those terms by using the Service. YOU MAY ALSO BE ENTITLED TO CERTAIN CONSUMER PROTECTION RIGHTS UNDER THE LAWS OF YOUR LOCAL JURISDICTION.

h. Limitation of Liability. Without limiting the disclaimer of warranties and limitation of liability in the Amazon Conditions of Use of your Video Marketplace (noted here (i) in no event shall our or our software licensors' total liability to you for all damages arising out of or related to your use or inability to use the Software exceed the amount of fifty dollars ($50.00); and (ii) in no event shall our or our Digital Content providers' total liability to you for all damages arising from your use of the Service, the Digital Content, or information, materials or products included on or otherwise made available to you through the Service, exceed the amount you paid to us over the past 12 months to purchase, rent, or view the Digital Content related to your claim for damages. The limitations in this section will apply to you even if the remedies fail of their essential purpose.

CERTAIN JURISDICTIONS, INCLUDING JURISDICTIONS IN THE EUROPEAN UNION, DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE LIMITATION OR EXCLUSION OF LIABILITY FOR CERTAIN TYPES OF DAMAGES. IF THESE LAWS APPLY TO YOU, SOME OR ALL OF THE ABOVE DISCLAIMERS, EXCLUSIONS, OR LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU, AND YOU MAY HAVE ADDITIONAL RIGHTS.

i. Contact Information. For communications concerning this Agreement, please write to Amazon at the applicable notice address listed here.

j. Severability. If any term or condition of this Agreement is deemed invalid, void, or for any reason unenforceable, that part will be deemed severable and will not affect the validity and enforceability of any remaining term or condition.

 

Point 7 Conditions of use: 

 

7. YOUR ACCOUNT

You may need your own Amazon account to use certain Amazon Services, and you may be required to be logged into the account and have a valid payment method associated with it.

If there is a problem charging your selected payment method we may charge any other valid payment method associated with your account. Click here to manage your payment options.

If you use any Amazon Service you are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your account and password and for restricting access to your computer, and to the extent permitted by applicable law you agree to accept responsibility for all activities that occur under your account or password. You should take all necessary steps to ensure that the password is kept confidential and secure and should inform us immediately if you have any reason to believe that your password has become known to anyone else, or if the password is being, or is likely to be used in an unauthorised manner. You are responsible for ensuring that the details you provide us with are correct and complete, and for informing us of any changes to the information you have provided. You can access your information in the Your Account section of the website. Please see our Protecting Your Privacy Help Page to access your personal information.

You must not use any Amazon Service: (i) in any way that causes, or is likely to cause, any Amazon Service, or any access to it to be interrupted, damaged or impaired in any way, or (ii) for fraudulent purposes, or in connection with a criminal offence or other unlawful activity, or (iii) to cause annoyance, inconvenience or anxiety.

We reserve the right to refuse any Amazon Services or terminate accounts if your behaviour gives justified reason to do so. This will in particular be the case if you are in breach of applicable laws, applicable contractual provisions, our guidelines or our policies, which are all accessible on the website. Notwithstanding any such limitation or termination, you will continue to have access to content and services purchased by you up to that point.

[BankFodder]

Have they explain to you what your apparent breach of contract is?

[craigten]

No. I will ask....

[BankFodder]

I think you need to ask them in what way they consider that you may have breached the contract and to identify the particular part the contract which they consider you have breached

[craigten]

The email has been sent.....and thank you

[craigten]

Update from Amazon:

I am reviewing your comments with the relevant teams internally and will follow up as soon as I have an update from them.

[BankFodder]

Let us know in 5 days if you haven't heard

[craigten]

Email just received:

 

Regarding the breach of contract, please refer to the email we sent dated 6 February 2021. As advised previously, we are unable to provide any further insight into this matter.

 

 

I have just checked said email and it says:

 

 

Hello,

 

As we informed you earlier, we have closed this account. We took this action because you consistently asked us to issue refunds for a large number of your orders. While we expect the occasional problem with an order, we cannot continue to issue refunds or replacements to you at this rate.

 

After a thorough review, we have decided not to restore your full access to this account. You will not be able to place orders on our site.

 

Any digital content that you purchased with this account is still available to you. To access the content, click the “Manage Your Content and Devices” link on the Your Orders menu on Amazon.co.uk.

[BankFodder]

So, are you able to access the digital content that you have previously bought? Because that's the whole issue isn't it

[craigten]

Nope, I most certainly am not. I will see what our friend at Amazon says to that!

Edited March 24, 2021 by craigten