Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Court Claim Against Hermes raised - damaged goods ***Settled in Full at Mediation***


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 1191 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi, I'm hoping someone can advise me on Hermes.

 

I sent some bathroom taps back to a supplier using Hermes. I paid extra for the insurance (£20). The taps were wrapped in bubble wrap and inside boxes, however upon arrival the bathroom company said that the box was rattling and the taps inside were damaged (small dents and straches). The bathroom company would not accept the taps back, and therefore I did not get a refund (just under £300).

 

I have been in a back and forth with Hermes since sometime in Aug - a huge number of emails with either the most incompetent or complicit staff I have ever had to deal with. 

 

I have provided Hermes with an email from the bathroom company stating that the goods were rattling, damaged and that they would not accept them for a refund. Hermes have photos of the damage, how much they cost and other details they claimed to need.

 

Hermes have today said that they will not take my claim forward as, as I have said that they WERE adequately wrapped and did not provide them with proof that they weren't already damaged. Firstly, they have never asked for this proof, secondly I sent these taps in good faith and did not think to take pictures before hand. It is my belief that the taps were damaged in transit, not by me or the bathroom company.

 

I have exhausted the Hermes complaints channel - they have been messing me a around for months - and now I want to take them to court. I have had a read around and believe the next step is to write a 'letter before claim'.

 

Please can someone give me some advice on this? Am I wrong for not taking photos before using Hermes? Is this standard practice with couriers? Is there a particular act or law I should quote in the letter? 

 

Just to be clear, I definitely will take them to court, this won't be an empty threat. £300 is a lot of money  and they have wasted my time, which I also believe is worth something.

 

Appreciate any advice!

Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading around some more, I realise I should have mentioned I also did a Subject Access Request, however I don't think I did this correctly i.e. it was a bullet point amongst others in an email. I guess I should do this request separately and in letter form, recorded delivery? Can I also send this via email?

Link to post
Share on other sites

You made  number of errors:

 

You didn't take pictures

You used Hermes

You relied on faith (Bless!)

 

Yes, you will have to issue legal proceedings.

Post up your proposed letter of claim here before you send it off.  Don't expect it to have any effect.  You will have to issue the papers.

 

Normally Hermes would then force you at least to go to mediation and would then settle for what they think they can get away with in order to avoid court action.

 

Hermes don't want judgments against them where those judgments would expose their unfair treatment of customers - such as insisting on insurance to cover their own negligence, or relying on a prohibited items list to evade liability for loss.

 

However, in your case, the issue is not one of insurance or prohibited items.  The question is merely whether the items were adequately packed and so on this issue they could afford the risk of going to court and losing because nothing would undermine their way of doing business.

I am telling you this because it means that Hermes might be slightly more determined than usual to to face a judge even though the dispute is over a small sum.

 

Read around some of the Hermes threads to see how it normally goes - but as I suggested, most of them will not be relevant to you.

 

I don't see any purpose in sending an SAR in this case but please do tell us if you disagree.

 

Once you send the letter of claim, you must carry out your threat to begin the claim on day 15. Register on the Moneyclaim website and start getting the claim ready.  Let us see the draft POC before you click it off

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, I've just drafted a letter of claim.

 

Please can you let me know what you think. Should I add money for my time that they have wasted (which is a lot!)? Also, is it worth mentioning the films of Hermes staff throwing parcels around? The most recent one has appeared in the papers yesterday, or would that not be relevant to my claim as I can't prove that any of the parcels they have been caught throwing belong to me?

 

 

 

Martijn De Lange

Hermes

Capitol House 1 Capital Close

Morley

Leeds

West Yorkshire

LS27 0WH

 

Dear Martijn,

 

Reference: XXX

Parcel ID: XXX 

 

On the 20th August 2020, I purchased your next day delivery service, with insurance cover, to send some taps and components back to a bathroom supplier as they were not suitable for our bath. The items had been taken out their packaging to view them, before being wrapped back in their original packaging (bubble wrap and plastic packaging, inside their original boxes), and were then placed comfortably inside a large box (i.e the boxes had not space to move around inside the large box) for you to courier.

 

On arrival, the recipient has stated that the box was rattling. Upon inspection, dents and scratches were found as the items were damaged in transit. This has meant that I did not get a full refund for the unsuitable items.

 

Parcel contents: 

1. Hansgrohe - Talis E 3-Hole Rim Mounted Bath Mixer - £145.78

2. Hansgrohe - Basic Set For 3 Hole Rim Mounted Bath Mixer - £138.64

3. Also included Mixer 110 - with Pop-Up Waste, which was the only item undamaged and refunded by the bathroom supplier.

 

After multiple exchanges with various Hermes staff, I have now been told that you will not process my claim as I do not have photos of the items before I sent them. I sent these items in good faith and did not damage them before sending. Indeed, in one of the many correspondences with yourselves, you admit that parcels go through a number of handling and transportation processes where damage can occur. Additionally, there are a number of films in the press (4th November 2020 - The Daily Mirror, The Sun) showing the rough handling of parcels by Hermes.

 

I hereby inform you that unless you reimburse me for the £284.42 for the above mentioned goods within 14 days, I shall issue a claim in the County Court to recover this money from you, plus interest, plus costs without any further notice.

 

NB: a hard copy of this email has been sent today recorded delivery.

 

Regards,

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you should stop doing the "good faith" bit.

 

Take that out – but otherwise it will do although it's a bit heavy on narrative.

When it comes to the particulars of claim we will help you do a much briefer version

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

Here's my particulars of claim. Pls let me know what you think.

 

Reference: XXX

Parcel ID: XXX

  

Defendant courier company undertook to deliver the claimant’s taps and fixings to the value of £284.42 to an address in the UK. Defendants damaged the parcel contents through their negligent handling.

 

The claimant seeks compensation for the defendant’s negligence: £284.42, plus interest pursuant to section 69, County Courts Act 1984

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

That is certainly brief. Well done.

 

32 minutes ago, Eyeroll said:

 

 

Reference: XXX

Parcel ID: XXX

  

Defendant courier company undertook to deliver the claimant’s taps and fixings to the value of £284.42 to an address in the UK. Defendants breached the contract by damaging the parcel contents through their negligent handling.

 

The claimant seeks compensation for the defendant’s negligence: £284.42, plus interest pursuant to section 69, County Courts Act 1984

 

 

 

They will defend – and they will choose mediation. The mediator will try to get you to compromise and it will be up to you whether or not you want to stick your heels in. If you stick your heels and then of course it will go to court and you risk losing the lot – but on the other hand, Hermes risks losing as well.

Their particular Achilles heel here is that you did actually pay for their so called compensation cover.

Because there is no particular issue which they could lose and which would impact on their business methods, they might decide that this one is worth the risk of going to court.

If you win, it will be very good for you – but it won't establish any particular principle for others.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hello! I hope you had a good Christmas.

 

Please can you help me? Hermes are disputing the full amount, are defending the claim and have filed a defence. I don't understand what they have written so could do with some help understanding, and what the next steps are.

 

As mentioned above, I did take out full cover i.e the £20. They have the proof of the cost of the items. One tap was undamaged so I am only claiming for the two items that are damaged (thought this was clear in my letter of claim?) - £284.42.

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

We would prefer that you post up the original document in PDF format please – the whole thing

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you.

This is the standard response. They seem to be in a mess because as you say, they have even sent you an incomplete document.

It's certainly not quite clear whether they have the impression that you didn't buy any of their so-called insurance but of course if you have read around the threads on this sub- forum, you will understand completely the position that it is completely unfair that you, the customer, should be required to purchase insurance against Hermes own negligence.
It is Hermes which should insure against their own negligence, not you the customer.

They also say that they want you to prove the value of the lost or damaged items. Presumably you can do that easily – so there shouldn't be any problem there.

 

Hermes will also try to say that their terms and conditions say that they don't carry anything of a greater value than £300. Of course this is nonsense and your position will be that you fully declared the value and not only that you bought the so-called insurance cover to insure you against the full value of the damaged items.

There really is nothing new here at all. It's standard stuff and you should now wait for the directions questionnaire to arrive which hopefully will be within the next 14 days. That will invite you to make representations – including to say which court any hearing should be held in – and you will indicate that it will be your local court because you are a litigant in person and they are a business.
Hermes no doubt will agree to go to mediation and so you will be asked whether you agreed – and you should say yes.

Make sure you have read up on the sub- forums about the mediation journey and how you will even come under pressure from the mediator to give up some of your money.
Of course in order to go ahead from here you will have to pay an additional fee and this will be a decision for you, but remember that this is where Hermes is testing your resolve to go forward. The fact that they are already spending far more than the value of the lost items means nothing to them. They simply want to face you out and to crush you.

So don't worry. Make sure you read around about the various arguments and what happens at mediation. Let us know when you get the directions questionnaire

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, agree to mediation – but the fact that they haven't asked for it probably means that they won't go there. But certainly it would be a good idea to show willing.


The next thing that will happen will be either that you get a date for mediation – which seems to be unlikely – or you will get notice that the case has been transferred to your local court for a hearing. You will get a date and it will probably be a telephone hearing.

Let us know and then we will start preparing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes...to their Solictors.....as per my link above...3copies

 

 

.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes whoever is acting for them

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...