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    • You probably do need to ignore it, but show it to us just in case. Cover up your name, address and anything that could ID you like your car reg. HB
    • Hi all! I've now had a "final notification letter" through from ECP. I assume I should continue to ignore this, but is there likely any action I need to take? Do you need to see a copy of the letter? Thanks
    • Please will you upload the defence in a PDF format document
    • Afternoon All - after 3 weeks of silence, this morning I received an email from HMCTS advising that P2G have rejected my claim. Decide whether to proceed Parcel2Go.com has rejected your claim. You need to decide whether to proceed with the claim. You need to respond before 4pm on 25 June 2024. Your claim won’t continue if you don’t respond by then. This is their ‘defence’ Their defence Why they disagree with the claim When choosing a service on the Defendants website, the Claimant chose to book their order with Evri and selected to take out £20 parcel protection which comes with the service. On the first page of the booking process, the Claimant entered the value of £265 for the contents and was offered parcel protection for loss or damages against their goods for £13.99 + VAT. The Claimant selected no, which then produced a pop up which explained 'We strongly recommend that you protect the full value of your item(s).' however, the Claimant still did not take this protection out and instead continued with the booking process. At the end of the booking process, the Claimant was offered this again which was refused and the Claimant continued with the booking by accepting the terms and conditions which re-iterates the information provided in the booking process. The parcel was sent, however, seems to be delayed in transit. The parcel finally started to track again, however, when delivered the parcel was empty with no contents. As such, the claim was re-opened and attempted to be settled for the £20 protection taken out in the booking process. This was refused by the Claimant as they felt they should be paid the full amount of the value entered when booking. Unfortunately, due to the refusal of the parcel protection in the booking process the Defendant is not liable to settle the claim to the value and only to the parcel protection taken out. The Defendant shall rely on the Terms and Conditions of carriage in particular section 9. The Defendant understands that the contents have not be handled with due care and attention, which is not being disputed, however, they are disputing the amount they are liable to. They have requested mediation, I’m sure not least to drag the case out even longer, but I can see no benefit to me in this and so shall reject it. As ever, I’d welcome your thoughts guys. g59   
    • I doubt HMCTS holds any data on whether arrests by AEAs required police assistance.  They couldn't or wouldn't provide data on how many of warrants issued were successfully executed - just the number issued!  In my experience, arrest warrants whether with or without bail are [surprisingly] carried out with little or no fuss.  I think it's about how you treat people - a little respect and courtesy goes a long way. If you treat people badly they will react the same way. Occasions when police are called to assist are not common and, having undertaken or managed many thousands of these over the years, I can only recall a handful of occasions when police assistance was necessary. On one occasion, many years ago, I arrested and transported a man from Hampshire to Bristol prison on a committal warrant. It was just me and he was no problem. I didn't know the Bristol area (pre Sat Nav) and he was kind enough to provide directions - seems he knew the prison.  One young chap on another committal warrant jumped out of his back window and I had to chase him across several garden fences.  When he gave up (we were both knackered) I agreed to drive by his girlfriend's house to say farewell for a while.  I gave them a few moments and he was fine. The most difficult are breach warrants but mainly in locating the defendant as they don't want to go back to prison - can't blame them.  These were always dealt with by the police until the Access to Justice Act transferred responsibility from them to the magistrates' courts. The fact was the police did not actively pursue them and generally only executed them when they arrested someone for something else and found they had a breach warrant outstanding.  Hence the transfer of responsibility.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Virgin, mystery extra line: 2 judgments for Data Protection breaches - so far!!


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The parade of idiots passes by again...

No reply from Virgin to their last SAR and it's been 28 days now-another claim to be put in?

 

Meanwhile after several attempts to contact the court-they seem to be in a habit of not answering the phone or responding apart from auto-responses, they have managed to get an email together which displays a suitable lack of literacy skills given that both questions can be answered by reading the previous email. Reply was sent on Thursday and no reply from them still to that.

 

Exeter County,Enquiries <[email protected]>

Wed 10/27/2021 10:59 AM
 
What was your application for? 
And what does your help with fees application relate to?

 

From:<redacted>
Sent: 25 October 2021 12:00
To: Exeter County, Enquiries <[email protected]>
Subject: Help With Fees application no reply

 

I still have had no reply to this despite emailing and attempting to call several times within the last weeks- I want to be updated as to what is happening with this and why I am not receiving any reply.

 

From:<redacted>
Sent: Monday 5 October 2021 9:39pm

Subject: Help With Fees application 

 

This relates to my application <redacted>

Reference number:<redacted>

I completed an online application for help with fees on 2021-10-05

Yours sincerely, lemon_martini2

 

 

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Amazing.

Maybe if you fill out this form it will help to get things moving

COMPLAIN-ABOUT-A-COURT-OR-TRIBUNAL.FORM.SERVICE.JUSTICE.GOV.UK

 

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Any update on this? 

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Have just been on the phone to the Court- apparently no action has been taken as 'Help With Fees does not cover the cost of court fees, just the initial fee of bringing the claim'. The woman did tell me that I would be supplied with this in writing so I shall gladly wait to see if they do memorialize that incorrect statement on paper. The waiting time varies as it is done in date order and is usually a week to 10 working days-when I pointed out it had been almost a month for mine, I was then told 'It can take longer-maybe a month,six weeks,up to two or three months'. During that time no-one has replied from the court if there were any mistakes or irregularities. Complaint has been submitted this morning and auto-response received from the court.

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  • 2 weeks later...

They are obviously being run by Virgin management

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK here's the state of play. I was sent an email by the Head Clerk of the Court to contact him. Friday he didn't reply. From Mon-Thurs he was off on annual leave. Today I have spoken to him. They can now see that the application for Help With Fees and the N44 had been submitted. It was the court's claim that they had never received anything on that date, but as I received an autoresponse from them, it confirms something was sent through on that date, so once I have forwarded that email on to him, he will investigate.

He could not explain either why if the meeting was struck out due to non-payment of fees, why Virgin had not either

a) contacted me immediately to tell me so

b) on the date in question when asked if they knew anything as to access the hearing, told me then that it had been struck out.

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Do I understand that virgin told you that your claim had been struck out?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update on state of play: I have had no contact back from Head Clerk of Court despite emailing and calling several times. Today I managed to pin down his secretary who has advised that he hopes to be back in his office tomorrow. If need be,I shall sit on the phone and email all day to get some sort of response from him. It is very frustrating as I cannot do anything until the Court gets itself moving-at the moment this case seems to be in their we'll get around to it when we feel like it pile.

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The whole thing is a nightmare experience and Kudos to you for your tenacity.

I have a sense that not only are you in conflict with Virgin but also with the whole of the County Court system.

 


 

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Well thanks for the update. It's all pretty amazing and I suppose nothing will happen now until January – if that.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Any update on this?

It seems to me that a letter of formal complaint to the court manager and to the senior judge might be a good idea. I don't know if it is going to have any effect – but it won't do any harm.

I can almost see this becoming one of our most long-running threads

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I'd rather decline the longevity record if I can get it sorted quickly...

As it happens I have now received an email from the court which sort of outlines what has happened so far

 

*Apologies for delays caused by 'unforeseen circumstances' and 'my lengthy absence'

 

States: Complaint is that 1) claim was struck out on 2 August due to non-payment of hearing fee 2)incorrect information supplied

 

Timeline from Court's point of view.

29 Jun-order was issued to all parties with directions including the claimant to pay hearing fee by 23 Jul

10 Aug-order was issued striking out the claim on 2 Aug due to non-payment of hearing fee

21 Aug-you sent an email attaching email dated 23 Jul confirming application made with Reference <Redacted1>

25 Aug-matter referred to a District Judge for their consideration-the Judge requested that we seek the date of the receipt of the online application from the Help With Fees section-the date given for receipt of email was 18 Aug at 21.04

7 Sep-matter was rereferred to a District Judge and the matter remained struck out.

22 Sep-you were informed the matter remained struck out.

25 Oct-you sent an email attaching an email of an application, however the email has an anomaly as no month could be found-only Monday 5/10. Reference <Redacted2>

29 Oct-you sent an email replying to the court's subsequent email confirming the reason for application.

5 Nov-you called the Court and filed a complaint which I subsequently replied to on 18 November <actually the reply was just an email stating he would like to discuss this at some time-it has taken a further 8 weeks to get the confirmed reply>

12 Nov-the Court sent an email requesting a copy of the N244 application which relates to reference <Redacted2>

16 Nov-you sent the copy of the N244 application completed 5 October.

17 Nov-the Court confirmed that the Help With Fees application was not eligible and returned the application. <I was told on 5 Nov when I made my complaint that it was rejected as Help With Fees is only available at the beginning of the claim>

 

Each point of complaint:

1.The claim was struck out for non-payment of fees-the information you provided to the court on 25 Aug was referred to the District Judge and he considered all the available information. The records that the Court hold confirmation the email was received on 18 Aug. I also received the copy of your autoreply which we discussed in our telephone conversation-however this is dated 23 July which is after when the hearing fee was due.

 

2.There appears to be some confusion as to the information you have received with regard to the Help With Fees system and for this I apologise. On receipt of your email of 5 Nov, the court acted swiftly to attend to the application which the court did not receive on 5 October and which may not have reached us as the email you sent of 25 October shows an anomaly as no month could be found-only Monday 5/10.

 

I trust that the comments above help with the series of events as well as the circumstances and responses made to you in response to your communications with this court.

 

I strongly suggest you seek advice which can be accessed free through Support My Court on 0300 081 0006.

 

So there we are- not only battling Virgin, but now the court too...

Meanwhile I have submitted SAR's for other companies that I have had problems with. That was at the beginning of December and no reply from any of them-I feel more claims coming on...

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Thanks for this update. It's really quite amazing.

So could you just clarify exactly where you stand with virgin at the moment. Is this case ongoing? Or has it completely stopped and if so, what can be done to get it going again

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So far nothing has happened since August when it was supposed to be heard-although interestingly I haven't heard anything from Virgin, who I would be sure would have sent out a letter straightaway to tell me 'Your claim has been struck out as you haven't paid the fee'.

I've supplied N244 and Help With Fees codes but all I've received from the court is in that chronology saying my HWF application is not eligible, but without specifying why it isn't eligible.

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The only thing I can suggest is that you begin a complaint to these people

WWW.GOV.UK

How to provide feedback or make a complaint to HM Courts & Tribunals Service.

 

I would start off by informing the court that you are going to make this complaint if the matter isn't resolved within seven days meaning that there is a date for a hearing – the hearing which was initially cancelled.

If they don't resolve the complaint in that time then you will make a formal complaint to the HM Courts and Tribunal service.

At the same time I suggest that you send an SAR to the court. Do this in a separate letter so there is no confusion.

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I only came across this thread while I was searching for something else.  Obviously a very annoying and vexing matter for @lemon_martini2

 

Can I just ask as a suggestion though, is the confusion with the court about correspondence not being traced at least partly owing to references at various stages to what appears to be Monday, 5th October 2021?  It's just that 5th October 2021 was a Tuesday, not a Monday.  Of course I may have misunderstood and the detail is not important - I've only had a chance to scan this last page so am unaware of the context of the issue.

 

On 01/11/2021 at 21:56, lemon_martini2 said:

...

 

From:<redacted>
Sent: Monday 5 October 2021 9:39pm

Subject: Help With Fees application 

 

This relates to my application <redacted>

Reference number:<redacted>

I completed an online application for help with fees on 2021-10-05

Yours sincerely, lemon_martini2

 

 

 

 

21 hours ago, lemon_martini2 said:

....

 

2.There appears to be some confusion as to the information you have received with regard to the Help With Fees system and for this I apologise. On receipt of your email of 5 Nov, the court acted swiftly to attend to the application which the court did not receive on 5 October and which may not have reached us as the email you sent of 25 October shows an anomaly as no month could be found-only Monday 5/10.

...

 

#326 and #339

 

Apologies for butting in, but I once had a protracted problem at work because nobody had noticed that a particular day and date combination did not exist...

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  • 2 months later...

Well I have been to America since February 2, so that gave plenty of time for my SAR to be replied to and my formal complaint in which I gave the court seven days to deal with this to be dealt with-and nothing.

In my email inbox nothing and on my doormat-nothing at all. Now I'm back in Blighty I think it'll have to be another immediate complaint that my previous complaint has not been tackled or at least even replied to.

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It's really extraordinary and all I can think of is telephone in the court relentlessly everyday and asked to complain to the judge .

Even get the name of the judge and write to the judge and explain what is happening and ask for some interventionEven get the name of the judge and write to the judge and explain what is happening and ask for some intervention

 

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  • 3 months later...

 

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Any update on this Nothing from the OP since March

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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