Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[green_and_mean]

Hi, I spent all day yesterday reading all 39 pages of this thread hoping to find the answers to my questionsbut I'm afraid I am going to have to ask them anyway.

 

can someone tell me if a FPN has to have date of issue? mine just has

On dd/mm/yyyy from hh/mm to (blank)

in location

offence code 018 waiting in length of road where prohibited

make xxxxx modelxxxx colourxxxx

signed xxxx No xxxx

 

when dyl's are accompanied by stripes on the kerb does it matter that there is no T-bar at the end?

 

Just to finish, how can I find out which LA's operate the decriminilised system? as I understand Liverpool does but Knowsley is where I got my FPN.

 

Thanks

 

Great forum

 

 

Fixed penalty notices are an offer to settle out of Court, even if all the details on it made it invalid non payment would simply result in a summons to appear in Court. Yellow lines should have T bars on regardless but you will have to rely on the magistates descision if you decide to get off on this technicality. Since you admit to parking on DYL you will have to decide if the gamble of going to Court and the possibility of a higher fine plus time off work is worth it.

[green_and_mean]

>>Why didn't you pay and get the discount you would have saved £30?

Thanks for your reply - I was trying to cut a long story short with my first post:

 

I had already disputed the ticket on other grounds - that I was buying a ticket when the PCN was issued - when I returned to my car the PCN was there!- I have a valid ticket displaying exactly the same time as the PCN issue! This appeal has been rejected! So I was trying to find anything to add to my dispute.

 

On a point of pedantry - I actually overpaid ( by a small amount) the ticket that I bought because this was one of those helpful machines that do not give change - are the council obliged to refund this? ( I expect not)

 

Thanks again

 

Unless there is more to this story, for example you only bought the ticket after seeing the PA and had already been parked for a while you should appeal on the grounds that you had a ticket even if the Council turned you down.

[JonCris]

Hi, I spent all day yesterday reading all 39 pages of this thread hoping to find the answers to my questionsbut I'm afraid I am going to have to ask them anyway.

 

can someone tell me if a FPN has to have date of issue? mine just has

On dd/mm/yyyy from hh/mm to (blank)

in location

offence code 018 waiting in length of road where prohibited

make xxxxx modelxxxx colourxxxx

signed xxxx No xxxx

 

when dyl's are accompanied by stripes on the kerb does it matter that there is no T-bar at the end?

 

Just to finish, how can I find out which LA's operate the decriminilised system? as I understand Liverpool does but Knowsley is where I got my FPN.

 

Thanks

 

Great forum

 

If the markings (no T bar) are wrong or the sign is wrong, or the PCN is incorrect meaning they don't comply with the Statute then an attempt to impose a charge is unlawful as no offence has been committed.

 

Go here for more detailed advice Neil Herron Neil has had many success against councils who try to ride roughshod over the rules

[green_and_mean]

If the markings (no T bar) are wrong or the sign is wrong, or the PCN is incorrect meaning they don't comply with the Statute then an attempt to impose a charge is unlawful as no offence has been committed.

 

Go here for more detailed advice Neil Herron Neil has had many success against councils who try to ride roughshod over the rules

 

 

All very well....only trouble is it wasn't issued by the Council and its not a charge its a fine!

[JonCris]

Hi, I spent all day yesterday reading all 39 pages of this thread hoping to find the answers to my questionsbut I'm afraid I am going to have to ask them anyway.

 

can someone tell me if a FPN has to have date of issue? mine just has

On dd/mm/yyyy from hh/mm to (blank)

in location

offence code 018 waiting in length of road where prohibited

make xxxxx modelxxxx colourxxxx

signed xxxx No xxxx

 

when dyl's are accompanied by stripes on the kerb does it matter that there is no T-bar at the end?

 

Just to finish, how can I find out which LA's operate the decriminilised system? as I understand Liverpool does but Knowsley is where I got my FPN.

 

Thanks

 

Great forum

 

Today 22:51green_and_mean

 

All very well....only trouble is it wasn't issued by the Council and its not a charge its a fine!

 

Really

[green_and_mean]

Today 22:51green_and_mean

 

All very well....only trouble is it wasn't issued by the Council and its not a charge its a fine!

 

Really

 

 

The clue is in its a Fixed penalty notice and the description of the offence.

 

 

can someone tell me if a FPN has to have date of issue? mine just has

On dd/mm/yyyy from hh/mm to (blank)

in location

offence code 018 waiting in length of road where prohibited

make xxxxx modelxxxx colourxxxx

signed xxxx No xxxx

[60's child]

Fixed penalty notices are an offer to settle out of Court, even if all the details on it made it invalid non payment would simply result in a summons to appear in Court. Yellow lines should have T bars on regardless but you will have to rely on the magistates descision if you decide to get off on this technicality. Since you admit to parking on DYL you will have to decide if the gamble of going to Court and the possibility of a higher fine plus time off work is worth it.

 

Hi G&M thanks for your reply

I'm a tad confused, elswhere on the forum I have read that lines have to conform otherwise there is no offence. your reply says it's a technicality and a gamble. Can anyone advise on the odds please as I only have a few days left to decide what to do???:?

[green_and_mean]

Hi G&M thanks for your reply

I'm a tad confused, elswhere on the forum I have read that lines have to conform otherwise there is no offence. your reply says it's a technicality and a gamble. Can anyone advise on the odds please as I only have a few days left to decide what to do???:?

 

You were parked on DYL that is not in question, if you think that the markings were not legal you will have to convince the magistrates of this fact, since no one on this forum can predict their deciscion it is a gamble in that respect. If you lose the fine will be the same or greater than the FPN and if you win you will still have to waste a morning in Court for the cost of the FPN.

[grec08]

Hi,

 

Sorry to post this if it's already been answered elsewhere but 30 pages is a lot to go through....... I received a parking ticket from Weymouth council a couple of months ago. I parked up on a long road by the sea next to a long row of B+B's. There was a yellow line and I looked around and couldn't see any signs as to restrictions. On getting back to my car I found the ticket. I then went to look for the signs and found one on the entrance to the road (about 100m) away. I appealed on the basis that the sign was over 60m away. They sent back photographs of a sign approx 40m from my car high up on the front wall of one of the B+B's. Around the sign are hanging baskets and there is a protruding B+B sign. There are also lots of protruding signs and hanging baskets on the other B+B's in between my car and where the sign was. From my car there would be no way that I could see it. The B+B also had seating out the front of it so the sign is not even close to the road. They stated that they did not place any signs on the pavement at the end of the road (where my car was parked) as the area is an area of beauty. I intend to appeal but can't find anything on obstruction of signs. I also feel that the sign is unfair as why would any reasonable person look for the sign on the front of a building that is someone's home. Where do I stand with this? Thanks for your help.

[JonCris]

Fine grec but I would mention that when you say there were not any signs what do you think yellow lines are.........they have to tell you that there is some sort of parking restriction.............Knowing the area to which you refer the council are correct when they refuse to place obstructive street furniture which would spoil the Edwardian ascetic's of the area

[patdavies]

Knowing the area to which you refer the council are correct when they refuse to place obstructive street furniture which would spoil the Edwardian ascetic's of the area

 

To vary from TSRGD, they need the specific authorisation of the SoS.

 

They cannot simply decide not to put up signs because they wouldn't look nice.

[JonCris]

Ah but they DID put up signs read the OP's posts:)

[lamma]

check for the SoS authorisation - they may have it, or they may not...

[lardbros]

Righty ho then...

 

I received a ticket a few weeks ago in Wandsworth and appealed purely for the fact that i had been dropping off my luggage in my friends house and then went to get a permit from my mate when he'd found them. I had a ticket in 5 minutes exactly, and the little b******* was still filling it out and taking photos while i was talking to him and waving my permit in the air.

 

I appealed and have now had a letter back saying that i hadn't sent them scanned council tax docs of the owner of the house, which infact i had, and that they are proceeding with the fine. How can they just say i hadn't attached an image in an email, when i clearly had??? The letter made me out to be a liar. Because of them saying this they won't reduce the fine to £40 through the presentation of a valid permit and council tax docs from the residents. BUT, i definitely sent them the details.

 

Do i appeal again or what? What i am after is something glaringly wrong with the parking bay markings or the sign or the PCN... please, i would really be grateful of anyone helping me out here... i've never thought of contesting a fine before, but this is £60 or £120 if i don't pay up soon! Shocking... and never before been given a ticket after 5minutes!

 

The area was Wandsworth and here are images of the PCN, Road Markings, and the sign marking the details of enforcement! My Registration has been blurred out.

 

Also, does it matter that my car isn't a mini cooper, but in fact a Mini One?

 

 

MANY MANY THANKS for any kind of help!!

 

(and apologies for the size of the images, wasn't sure how big they'd need to be to be readable)

 

Edited August 2, 2008 by jonni2bad

[Conniff]

Yes you appeal again and make sure you ask them in the appeal letter if they are 'calling you a liar'.

You will get a response without that being addressed, so you write again (enclosing your first letter for

convenience and highlighting the calling you a liar bit), telling them you are taking legal advice and in

the meantime, can they address the point you have raised.

[JonCris]

Calling a litigant a liar moves it into a whole new ball game which is usually multi-track

 

Whilst a civil litigant can put another to absolute proof calling them a liar is accusing them of a criminal offence for which serious damages can be claimed & the standard of proof moves from what is 'probable' to 'beyond all reasonable doubt'

[green_and_mean]

I doubt very much they called him a liar, I expect it was just the fact that they said they had not received the documents that made him feel like a liar.

[JonCris]

They don't actually have call him a liar to accuse him of lying. They only have to say they don't believe him which in law is the same

[lardbros]

Well, they never said "you're lying". But it is worded in such a way that they are implying that i have "claimed to have completed a parking permit".

 

Is this just them being c***s or just the way they are told to write letters?

 

As for them they also say in the letter that once a ticket has been started to be filled out that they cannot in any way cancel it. This is simply untrue...back in my home town (in devon mind, not london) i stumbled across a traffic warden ticketing my car and he said "ooh, you're lucky, i hadn't quite finished writing it out" and just threw it all away! Nice guy!

 

So are there any major glaring errors in their text or the way the ticket has been worded?

[pin1onu]

Well, they never said "you're lying". But it is worded in such a way that they are implying that i have "claimed to have completed a parking permit".

Agreed there are many ways to cast doubt on the veracity of a statement. e.g. "I would suggest that the honourable gentleman is not being entirely straight forward" or "your account is at variance with the facts".

 

However they are casting doubt on your claim in the same way as you are casting doubt on theirs. Looking at it from an objective view point the approach of you both will get you nowhere. However as the Council has the upper hand you could ultimately lose out if you don't comply with their request. I'm not saying is that the Council or its officials are acting honestly in your case. Have a read of this thread which shows just how disingenuous some councils can be.

 

What you should do is draw their matter to their attention in a letter. I would do it in writing and produce hard copy of the evidence that backs up your claim and send it all recorded delivery. That way there is no chance of them claiming that they have lost the paperwork as you have a verifiable record of having delivered the information requested.

 

As for them they also say in the letter that once a ticket has been started to be filled out that they cannot in any way cancel it. This is simply untrue...back in my home town (in devon mind, not london) i stumbled across a traffic warden ticketing my car and he said "ooh, you're lucky, i hadn't quite finished writing it out" and just threw it all away! Nice guy!

There is a measure of truth in what they say. In the past if you returned before a ticket was completed then you could drive off and the notice was deemed not served. This is probably what happened in the your home town. The warden could not serve it in time and abandoned it.

 

As of the 31st March this year the law changed and tickets can now be served by post. So unless the warden doesn't have all the requisite information you are likely to get a ticket regardless.

 

The rules on completing tickets seem to vary from council to council.

 

Having lived in the area, I know from bitter experience what a pack of nasty b's Wandsworth Council can be over parking tickets.

[JonCris]

I realize that for most this will purely be a case of semantics but if a litigant is accused of lying then no matter how the accusing party couches the term such as "the honourable gentleman is not being entirely straight forward" or "your account is at variance with the facts" they are still making an accusation of lying.

 

This can have the effect of moving a small or fast track claim up to the multi track as the issues in question have now become much more serious

[jono13681]

Hi,

 

Could anyone help me? I sent Norwich City Council a letter template off this site, letting them know all the illegal problems with their ticket.

 

I sent the letter over 4 weeks ago and have heard nothing in reply?

 

What should i do? Should i contact them?

 

Jono

[Barnsley Boy]

Hi,

 

Could anyone help me? I sent Norwich City Council a letter template off this site, letting them know all the illegal problems with their ticket.

 

I sent the letter over 4 weeks ago and have heard nothing in reply?

 

What should i do? Should i contact them?

 

Jono

 

Hi Jono,

 

The template letters [as per the stickies] are for private parking tickets, not council tickets. Unfortunately you can't ignore councils the way that you can private companies. I'd advise getting in touch to find out what is happening.

[happyshopper29]

Hello,

I hope someone can help me with this.

 

I received a parking ticket on Wednesday 30th April from Newcastle City Council. I arrived at the car park just after 9am and it cost £3 to park there all day. I put £2 and just before I went to put in another £1, the machine printed the ticket. The ticket was to expire at 12.30pm that day, so I thought that I would come back during lunch to pay for the remainder of the day. However, my meeting overrun and I didn't get back to my car until 12.50pm, by which time I had already received the parking fine.

 

I was going to make a complaint to the council regarding the faulty machine, but I think I may have a better chance complaining that it does not have the right information on it.

There is no "date of contravention 30/4/08" it just says "date 30/4/08". It also states on the header of the notice "Excess Charge Notice".

I could try to scan the ticket if it helps.

Thank you in anticipation

[green_and_mean]

Hello,

I hope someone can help me with this.

 

I received a parking ticket on Wednesday 30th April from Newcastle City Council. I arrived at the car park just after 9am and it cost £3 to park there all day. I put £2 and just before I went to put in another £1, the machine printed the ticket. The ticket was to expire at 12.30pm that day, so I thought that I would come back during lunch to pay for the remainder of the day. However, my meeting overrun and I didn't get back to my car until 12.50pm, by which time I had already received the parking fine.

 

I was going to make a complaint to the council regarding the faulty machine, but I think I may have a better chance complaining that it does not have the right information on it.

There is no "date of contravention 30/4/08" it just says "date 30/4/08". It also states on the header of the notice "Excess Charge Notice".

I could try to scan the ticket if it helps.

Thank you in anticipation

 

 

An excess charge ticket is not the same as a penalty charge notice (PCN) its a different thing all together. You can complain to the Council using their appeals procedure Parking Notices