CEL ANPR PCN Wigmore Valley Park Community Centre Eaton Green Rd Luton LU2 9JB. No NTK Received HELP!

[ericsbrother]

So no first letter, just this final reminder, sent out a month too soon to mean anything.

 

CEL dont send out properly written NTK's they dotn even try to obey the law and use the courts as a first step in debt collection rather than a last resort to recover monies actually owned.

 

They also lie about this and will produce false pictures and documents to support their lazy, incompetent and illegal activities.

 

as said, DO NOT APPEAL but spend some time gathering some pictures as evidence.

Once you have this you may wish to make a complaint to the BPA, who are supposed to be the watchdog for this bunch of bandits but more importantly you will need it for when Ashley decides to spend £25 on a court summons because it is cheaper then sending out the correct letters in the first place.

 

Picture you need are

of entrance to the site from the public highway whether there are any signs there or not.

Pictures of signs nearest to entrance and note its size and position.

Picture of sign nearest to where you parked if different to the previous sign(s).

Pictures of any other different sign even if they appear to be out of date such as signs about clamping, signs indicating the presence of shops no longer there, signs that just clutter the place up so making it harder to spot the CEL ones and

pictures of anything that obscures their signage such as overgrown trees, wheelie bins in front of them and so forth.

 

These should be taken to show the place in a bad light rather than climbing over a wall to get a decent piccie as you would have to in some places

[truckert]

I have taken pictures of the signage,

we were in this car park on the date referenced on the final demand but we didn't stay more than 2 hours even though the sign say 3 hours it was bank holiday monday and very sunny and hot I remember.

 

The site is a community centre with a car park for the open space (park)

 

Please see Signage attached.

 

Sorry If its not uploaded correctly I couldn't find the PDF upload information maybe someone can point me in the right direction so I can get it right.

 

 

SIGNS.pdf

 

WOuld it be possible for the ANPR camera to read my number plate coming in but maybe misread it on the way out as we definitely never over stayed the 3 hours.

 

Makes even harder as I never received the Notice To Keeper so I don't know exactly what they are trying to rob me for, just know they want £100.

 

They are not getting it (hopefully)  

Edited June 19, 2020 by truckert

[brassnecked]

ANPR is dodgy and double dipping is common Parking Eye were invoicing taxi drivers in and out of Aldi's for some time logging them in say 9 am then logging them out around 8pm, but they had been on and off the site constantly.  Other issue with crap ANPR like that used by the likes of CEL is misreading  0 and O has been many a bum ticket and wrong person invoiced who wasn't even within 100 miles of the car park.

[truckert]

I think it must be a case of the ANPR logging my car in but not out, maybe this explains why I never recieved a Notice to Keeper ?

Would it be a case of them having my car going in but not out so they dont send the notice to Keeper which usually has the in out pictures on?

[brassnecked]

CEL don't follow the rules as mentioned by ericsbrother above so they might not even bothered, just waited and sent a demand letter.

[truckert]

So whats my course of action ? do nothing for now and wait to see if any further letters arrive ??

[dx100uk]

as we've said numerous times already....

 

where is this carpark please too!

google nosey neighbour link please or postcode and road.

 

dx

 

[truckert]

The Car Park is at the following address:

 

Wigmore Valley Park Community Centre & Pavilion

Eaton Green Rd

Luton

LU2 9JB

 

I have highlighted on the attached map the area that is the entrance and parking.

[truckert]

Thanks Everyone for your input, as advised I shall wait to see if any further letters are received, I will update you all in a month or sooner if I hear anything.

Thanks again for your well balanced experienced advise on this issue it's much appreciated.

Edited June 20, 2020 by truckert

[lookinforinfo]

When you posted the signage you didn't include the sign with all their rules on it.

The PCN is not for overstaying as you only were there for a couple of hours so one of the rules may be that you had to pay to park possibly?

 

Their regulations to be effective should have been on the entrance sign.

As they weren't then that entrance sign is just an offer to treat. 

 

You will continue to receive letters from them each time increasing their unlawful charges,

threatening to devour your first born,

sending you a plague of locusts to your back garden etc etc in order to scare you into paying.

If that  doesn't work they send in the cavalry - a bunch of unregulated debt collectors with even more threats.

 

After that they realise you aren't too keen on paying so they offer an olive branch and a chance to pay a reduced price

-usually around £160 [which is £160 more than you owe ].

 

Sometimes they give up after that but other times they send in their illegal team of solicitors to increase the threat all the way up to Def Con 2 in US parlance.

 

They get a bit miffed when you ignore them after that so some times they send a Letter of Claim which you must always respond with a pretty rude letter of your own which you will probably see when you read other cases that are ongoing on here.

Now they know you are definitely not scared of them and will also know that you know that their claim is rubbish.

 

If they persist after that let us know so we can move you on to the next stage if necessary.

Expect a number of months to elapse before that happens.

 

They don't like to give up even when they know nothing is owed.

Just think of them as troublesome children who are extremely greedy and you will be about right.

 

[truckert]

Thanks lookinforinfo,

There were no other signs around but I will pop up there and check anyway.

No mention of payment that I see just a 3 hour time limit which I was well within.

I shall await there threats and ignore as advised, I shall obviously update as we go along and will no doubt be needing that rude letter to respond to there Letter Of Claim should I receive one.

Feet are up ready and waiting for them.

Edited June 21, 2020 by truckert

[dx100uk]

noting illegal about using solicitors, it's not a criminal matter to use them.

 

other than put your feet up, the only thing you should be aware of is time limits.

they have 6yrs to raise a a court claim.

 

there is increasing chatter that many PPC are going to leave claims now for a very longtime to allow the restrictions of covid-19 to be consigned to history...if you do move within 6yrs, ensure (as you should all creditors) of this fact.

 

dx

[brassnecked]

Wouldn't be surprised if there is a glut of Aldi Parking Eye just before Christmas if locdown fully eased, as the 3 hour time taken to shop and 90 minute overstays  queuing to shop put out of mind, similar for Tesco, Asda, anywhere infested by PPC, CEL proved that they are looking to score with their Wirral KFC debacle.  I expect they might try again and chance their arm by reviving some of those invoices for queuing not parked cars  They will probably carry on chasing those who didn't expressly complain and have it logged by KFC .  They have history with the Co-Op that lot, details on prankster's blog.

[ericsbrother]

Ok, sign at entrance isn't a contract, it is an "invitation to treat" and so invites you to park and consider any further offer. You don't have to accept the further offer and can still remain there as the invitation is not limited in scope.

 

Now the contract says parking 3 hours and you have to pay them £100 if you breach the conditions.

There are no conditions attached so you cant breach them.

 

They could have said free parking for under 3 hours, if you stay longer than 3 hours then the parking charge is £100 and it would be lawful but the actual wording is cobblers.

 

So yes, sit on your hands and let them waste their money for a while. They don't send out a properly worded LBA either so you will be able to rip that to shreds if they go for a claim.

 

Now as invitations to treat haven't come up recently I will use the example I read doing A level law.

 

A man sees a sign outside a shop that says 50% off most items so he goes into the shop and looks around.

He selects a pair of trousers and takes them to the till where the shopkeeper says they aren't in the sale.

The sign is an invitation to treat, not an offer of a contract.

 

The sign is inviting the man to have a look at what is on offer and to enter into relations with the shopkeeper by asking about the price of the trousers. The shopkeeper is not obliged to sell the trousers at 50% off as the sign is not an offer of a contract in itself. The man is not obliged to buy the trousers.

 

A contract is only formed when the man agrees the price of the goods with the shopkeeper and shows an intention to pay. he cant demand the discount, the shopkeeper cant demand he pay for the trousers as he has chosen them and taken them to the till. The shopkeeper cant charge the man for heat and light during the wasted exchange.

 

Now all parking charges were covered by the last part of this until the BEAVIS decision which made a customer to supplier transaction a business to business type transaction where damages may be sought even though no loss has occurred.

 

so in parking contract terms the sign is the invitation to treat, ie come in and consider buying something.

You did but didn't expressly agree to the terms so hung around looking at the reat of the merchandise ( well, parking spaces) before leaving.

 

Now CEL COULD have got one of their mythical employees to ask you to leave but they didn't so no contract actually offered and accepted so no contract to breach, even if the signs were properly written by a grown up on their behalf..

[brassnecked]

Primary case was Fishe v Bell, a flicknife displayed in the window was not an offer https://www.lawteacher.net/cases/fisher-v-bell.php

 

As EB states  the Signagew is extremely important so location, and content

[ericsbrother]

Indeed and well remembered. that was the case law the man and trousers scenario worked to. The esasay was to show all of the variations of what can happen up to the point of the man actually paying ( and more importantly what cant happen)

[truckert]

Hi All,

 

So I have received the second letter from CEL (attached), do I just continue to ignore for now ?? 

New Document.pdf

[brassnecked]

Another threatogram, full of ifs buts and maybe's  we may pass it to a DCA who will add Unicorn Feed tax, as in unlawful extra fees. Its not a proper Letter of Claim.

[truckert]

Thanks for the swift reply brassnecked, I shall sit on my hands once again then.

[ericsbrother]

standard letter but interestingly contains threats of action that can never apply so keep that to use as evidence of their unlawful behaviour if they are stupid enough to want to try their luck.

If you do indeed owe £100 how cna they say bailiffs will call or your car be seized as the minimum debt for it to be sent to the High Court for bailiff action is £600?

 

They know this is a lie so they also know that it is harassment and that is a criminal offence. shme that if you did report it all plod would do is write it down and add it to their crime stats rather then feeling Ashley's collar and giving him words of advice as he fell down the steps