SPML/LMC anyone claimed for mis selling and unfair charges?

[gustavius rex]

Hi GR

 

Ownership is a very vexed issue, the law is complex and the county courts either don't or won't understand the issues. I had a judge who thought that securitisation meant being secured against the property. Wilful ignorance in my view. Are you familiar with the debate between superslueth and suetuonius on this and other threads? In the case of spml and sppl I could hazard a guess that ownership means nothing in the conventional sense. The whole process of securitisation rests on diversification of risk. Each mortgage has been sliced and diced so that it doesn't exist except as your liability to ultimate

Ultimately the investors in the notes. You are probably looking for the rainbows end here even though we both know they were sold sold again and that the original grantor of the mortgage retains the right to aggressively pursue us

 

 

 

Howdy Enough,

 

l have followed most of the sites and threads pertaining, not only to Preferred/SPML etc., but, other similar shady outfits. And, there's a lot of them, some worse (if possible) others slightly better.

 

The thing l'm really interested in, is how we and l can get to the source of our problems. l'm no longer in such a terrible position towards Preferred, but, it has cost me a lot and will continue to cost me for the next 5 years. However, that's not the point here, what l like to achieve is to prove that these ''lenders'' are engaged in nothing more but an attempt to defraud people of their homes and money and the tax from the state. l have'nt really started to dig all that deep in to this obscure and fraudulent business yet, but, hope that eventually we shall have the possibilities to achieve something similar to what is being done in the US. What has been proven here is that Preferred and SPML have their administration handled by Capstone, but, they are ultimately all owned by what was Lehmans. However, the true decision makers are the SPV's and their investors, why, all of us are at their mercy. Finally, if it was never the intention of these outfits to engage in any sustained longtime mortgage business, but, only short time speculation, i.e. get borrowers at preferential mortgage rates or sub-prime borrowers, then flog the books expecting the borrowers to re-mortgage after the preferential period is up, is this then a legitimate mortgage business? Of course not, so how do we get at them?

Gustavius

[enoughisenough]

Howdy Enough,

 

l have followed most of the sites and threads pertaining, not only to Preferred/SPML etc., but, other similar shady outfits. And, there's a lot of them, some worse (if possible) others slightly better.

 

The thing l'm really interested in, is how we and l can get to the source of our problems. l'm no longer in such a terrible position towards Preferred, but, it has cost me a lot and will continue to cost me for the next 5 years. However, that's not the point here, what l like to achieve is to prove that these ''lenders'' are engaged in nothing more but an attempt to defraud people of their homes and money and the tax from the state. l have'nt really started to dig all that deep in to this obscure and fraudulent business yet, but, hope that eventually we shall have the possibilities to achieve something similar to what is being done in the US. What has been proven here is that Preferred and SPML have their administration handled by Capstone, but, they are ultimately all owned by what was Lehmans. However, the true decision makers are the SPV's and their investors, why, all of us are at their mercy. Finally, if it was never the intention of these outfits to engage in any sustained longtime mortgage business, but, only short time speculation, i.e. get borrowers at preferential mortgage rates or sub-prime borrowers, then flog the books expecting the borrowers to re-mortgage after the preferential period is up, is this then a legitimate mortgage business? Of course not, so how do we get at them?

Gustavius

 

'Howdy' Gustavius. You have a clear understanding of the process and the issues here, no doubting that one. I fully agree with your synopsis.

 

Various stress tests have been applied, backed up with law by various caggers.

 

1. The misselling angle - still very potent in my view, if you've kept the paper trail. If not I fear you have little chance of getting hold of it.

 

2. Other caggers have tried and tested inculding myself, the securitisation angle but it's very difficult getting a court to listen to the issue and hear the argument. Even if Sue is right and Supersleuth is wrong it doesn't matter because the average district judge isn't interested no matter how well formulated the argument. As I said my judge probably willfully, confused securitisation with a secured charge. So it doesn't get tested. Sue will point out that it has been tested in Pender and Pender lost. Fair enough.

 

3. JonCris has argued instead that the equitable vs legal debate misses the point and instead focuses on the transformation of the actual performance of the contract which is very far removed from our honest and reasonable expectations when we signed the contracts. i think this has very strong legs but this along with ultimately all the other challenges will need to be heard and you can't get them heard. I know I've tried and the court's just aren't interested.

 

4. Some have tried the CCA argument but that is on hold at least until October in the CoA. (See Heath Vs SPML). I hate to say it but I think it will go in SPMLs favour, finger's crossed it wont.

 

5. Then there's the slow route of the FOS on charges and other breaches. I think it's worth it but it is mighty slow. Still it brings more pressure and maybe just maybe forces them to behave a bit more reasonably to those less equipped to fight. Then again maybe not.

 

6. The media are sniffing around from time to time and my feeling is that that does get at them. But the more media coverage the more they'll become desensitised to it and ultimately not really care.

 

7. The FSA (I know I know) are looking into this as well and the TSC are looking into the FSA. There will have to be a token gesture at least or the TSC will blow a gasket and in full public glare.

 

Many Caggers have had some success but the band wagon rolls on. Sniper fire is fun and good for our morale, small victories keep us going, but it's like a casino. The house will win in the long run.

 

Incidentally there is no way your full term will last. The prospectuses even boast how quickly redemption takes place. Remortgage or Repo. Who would have signed a contract knowing that?

[angmarie]

Hi EIE

 

Thank you for taking the time to read my post, do you think there is any real chance of claiming the early redemption charge even if mortgage was paid off about 15months ago?

If you do have any advice would you be as kind as to PM me and what would my reasoning for claiming be apart from the obvious.

Any other advice or direction would be gratefully received.

 

 

Onwards and upwards

 

 

Ang

[brassed-off-2]

Hi Angmarie

 

you have nothing to loose by going down the reclaiming of redemption charge, especially if it was only 15months ago.. i am more than certain you are well within the time limits for this...have a look around the site and im sure you will find some very useful information and helpful caggers along the way. It has to be worth a try...a small kick in the teeth for crapstone, but a big kick for the caggers!!

wishing you and your family the very best!

 

b-o-2

 

Start by sending a dsar to them...start your own thread, it helps to keep everything in one place, where you will get loads of advice, and others can follow with interest..

[gustavius rex]

'Howdy' Gustavius. You have a clear understanding of the process and the issues here, no doubting that one. I fully agree with your synopsis.

 

Various stress tests have been applied, backed up with law by various caggers.

 

1. The misselling angle - still very potent in my view, if you've kept the paper trail. If not I fear you have little chance of getting hold of it.

 

2. Other caggers have tried and tested inculding myself, the securitisation angle but it's very difficult getting a court to listen to the issue and hear the argument. Even if Sue is right and Supersleuth is wrong it doesn't matter because the average district judge isn't interested no matter how well formulated the argument. As I said my judge probably willfully, confused securitisation with a secured charge. So it doesn't get tested. Sue will point out that it has been tested in Pender and Pender lost. Fair enough.

 

3. JonCris has argued instead that the equitable vs legal debate misses the point and instead focuses on the transformation of the actual performance of the contract which is very far removed from our honest and reasonable expectations when we signed the contracts. i think this has very strong legs but this along with ultimately all the other challenges will need to be heard and you can't get them heard. I know I've tried and the court's just aren't interested.

 

4. Some have tried the CCA argument but that is on hold at least until October in the CoA. (See Heath Vs SPML). I hate to say it but I think it will go in SPMLs favour, finger's crossed it wont.

 

5. Then there's the slow route of the FOS on charges and other breaches. I think it's worth it but it is mighty slow. Still it brings more pressure and maybe just maybe forces them to behave a bit more reasonably to those less equipped to fight. Then again maybe not.

 

6. The media are sniffing around from time to time and my feeling is that that does get at them. But the more media coverage the more they'll become desensitised to it and ultimately not really care.

 

7. The FSA (I know I know) are looking into this as well and the TSC are looking into the FSA. There will have to be a token gesture at least or the TSC will blow a gasket and in full public glare.

 

Many Caggers have had some success but the band wagon rolls on. Sniper fire is fun and good for our morale, small victories keep us going, but it's like a casino. The house will win in the long run.

 

Incidentally there is no way your full term will last. The prospectuses even boast how quickly redemption takes place. Remortgage or Repo. Who would have signed a contract knowing that?

 

 

 

You've been dealing with this particular problem for a very long time, l notice. You are also absolutely right in your observations, but, there is still this point about the performance of the contract and the lenders original intention. So, if Preferred never intended to sell me a contract for a mortgage of x zillions for a period of y milleniums, but, only for two lousy years and this without explanation or mentioning in any prosepctus, then they are in breach at best and outright fraud at worse. My mortgage is now running well beyond the preferential term, but, that may be because it was/is prime/near prime. This will, of course, have no bearing once they need to flog their books or more likely realize some cash, something that could happen any minute, considering their financial position. Well, what to do? drop your pants and bend down or stand up and fight? As l did'nt go to any boarding school, l will stand up and fight, hence, l'm looking for ammunition. As for securitisation, this is a completely different matter as it is legal, but, in my opinion not practised as intended and immorally used against the borrower. We can discuss this at a later stage, but, let's commence with the issue of performance of contract. l'm sure that somewhere there in ether space someone knows more than l and will hand me that little helping hand l need to go on.

Gustavius Rex

[enoughisenough]

Hi ang marie

 

the advice you have received is top notch. Pms are not as effective for a number of reasons. I'll pm you if you want as to why. Only joking. Start your thread and well proceed from there.

 

GR yes! Excellent. Can't concentrate at the mo though as the kids are playing up missus enough isn't helping either

[enoughisenough]

JonCris is the main man about performance. He hasn't been about for a while though. I think he has a very valid argument on the divergence between what it says on the tin and what it actually does.

 

I wanted life breathed back into this thread coz it went too quiet for too long. I'm sure we can get the pressure back on.

 

Angmarie

 

check out MCOB - Detailed but required Reading.

 

Keep the faith EiE.

[Crapstone]

You've been dealing with this particular problem for a very long time, l notice. You are also absolutely right in your observations, but, there is still this point about the performance of the contract and the lenders original intention. So, if Preferred never intended to sell me a contract for a mortgage of x zillions for a period of y milleniums, but, only for two lousy years and this without explanation or mentioning in any prosepctus, then they are in breach at best and outright fraud at worse. My mortgage is now running well beyond the preferential term, but, that may be because it was/is prime/near prime. This will, of course, have no bearing once they need to flog their books or more likely realize some cash, something that could happen any minute, considering their financial position. Well, what to do? drop your pants and bend down or stand up and fight? As l did'nt go to any boarding school, l will stand up and fight, hence, l'm looking for ammunition. As for securitisation, this is a completely different matter as it is legal, but, in my opinion not practised as intended and immorally used against the borrower. We can discuss this at a later stage, but, let's commence with the issue of performance of contract. l'm sure that somewhere there in ether space someone knows more than l and will hand me that little helping hand l need to go on.

Gustavius Rex

 

Hi GR,

 

EIE sums it it rather well me thinks...

 

Performance of contract, or the lack of it by a breach, is a tough one to follow up. Proving any deliberate direct personal loss caused by them is hard to nail down and then of course you have to run the court gauntlet, who we all know wouldn't have a clue about securitisation even if it jumped up and bit them on the backside:|.

[Crapstone]

JonCris is the main man about performance. He hasn't been about for a while though. I think he has a very valid argument on the divergence between what it says on the tin and what it actually does.

 

I wanted life breathed back into this thread coz it went too quiet for too long. I'm sure we can get the pressure back on.

 

Angmarie

 

check out MCOB - Detailed but required Reading.

 

Keep the faith EiE.

 

And that leads us back to the misrepresentation and the fact we find ourselves with products that should have carried a health warning and which certainly didn't do what it said on the tin!:-|

[enoughisenough]

Angmarie

 

If you are not sure how to start your own thread let me know!

[angmarie]

Hi all

 

Oh gosh I never once thought I really could file a claim against them now as I said whats done, done!

But hay whats good for the goose and all that lol.

I have struggled to start my own threads in past but bear with me and I will have another go, dont really want you lovely people doing my homework for me.

My main threads on here are regarding credit cards, requesting cca and charges.

Is there anything on this site where I could download dsar or do I write to them to request the paperwork.

 

Many Thanks to you all

 

 

Ang x

[angmarie]

Hi EIE

 

Please forgive my ignorance, I am still on a learning curve:).

I am keen to read and digest all I can but I may need some guidance as to where I would find MCOB, if you please.

 

Ang

[enoughisenough]

In the middle of trying to get the eldest lad to bed.. It's like talking to capstone...yawn .... Teenage excuses. But will be back fully armed with what you need to get going. Hang on in you've been waiting 15 months anyway and THEY have no hold over YOU!

 

In that sense you are the perfect cagger!

 

Keep the faith EiE.

[Crapstone]

Hi EIE

 

Please forgive my ignorance, I am still on a learning curve:).

I am keen to read and digest all I can but I may need some guidance as to where I would find MCOB, if you please.

 

Ang

 

This should start you off..make yourself a strong coffee..

[Crapstone]

In the middle of trying to get the eldest lad to bed.. It's like talking to capstone...yawn .... Teenage excuses. But will be back fully armed with what you need to get going. Hang on in you've been waiting 15 months anyway and THEY have no hold over YOU!

 

In that sense you are the perfect cagger!

 

Keep the faith EiE.

 

LOL .

[enoughisenough]

Might get myself a strong coffee now that the thread has been rejuvenated. Good God, is there no end to this community's spirit. The answer of course is no! There is no end.

[agatha c]

Hi all

 

I think that if all the cags on this site who have been repossesed fight back, they will think twice about repossessions

[enoughisenough]

Hi Angmarie

 

and hi also to all other fellow strugglers against these sub prime garbage peddlars.

 

This is going to be a long one but I will try to keep it concise!

 

Angmarie PMs are ok and they serve a purpose. In my early days I used them a lot and got some good advice.

 

however there are some caveats

 

These are the following.

 

1. You can be 'befriended' by people who are not genuine.

2. There is also the possibility that a genuine cagger gives advice in good faith, only for that advice to be mistaken or misinterpreted and improperly acted upon.

3. You could feel more ready to divulge personal information on a PM because you feel you have that 'trusted' relationship with a person or persons you don't really know, however plausible they seem

4. You could need help urgently from said person and not receive it.

5. The other person could cut and paste your pm on open.

 

In short be very very careful about pm

 

However be careful in avoiding posting explicitly clear signposts to who you are on open, Yes, it's an effing tightrope...

 

Moving on...

 

If you want to embark on this then you would probably win. However you will be fought tooth and nail and they will lie all the way to their part 36 settlement (that's when their novice graduate receives a phone call saying we'll settle here and now and we don't need to speak to the judge). If it gets that far you'll know precisely what to do and say.

 

As for your claim, softly softly catchy monkey!

 

Research is vital. Start with the basic principle of:

 

If the ERC seemed unfair it almost certainly is.

 

If a conveyancing sol charges 750 that seems reasonable and fair (if a bit pricey). If the same said sol charged you 5K you'd be going hold on! Right?

 

OK so working from there you need to look at what they charged you on the ERC.

 

They can do this but and it's a big but it must be no more than a reasonable estimate of their costs for your early redemption

 

Heres the MCOB Link

 

FSA Handbook - Full Handbook

 

What I have found is that if you approach all naive and innocent saying things like this must be wrong, I didn't expect this etc and then move slowly through to stronger more legally backed up letters, they are not quite sure how to cope. THis is because they think they are dealing with idiots and when they have realised they are dealing with someone who is informed they panic because the paper trail has gone!

 

My thoughts and advice are here for anyone to use but please please please get them tested first. It costs a lot to hire a sol. It costs a lot more to lose your house.

[enoughisenough]

OK ALL HOPE YOU ARE PAYING ATTENTION

 

RE MR or MRS VeryCatchy

 

A quote from the energy forum

 

verycatchy7939

Basic Account Customer

 

Where else can you earn 8% interest on your money?

Start your County Court claim NOW!!!

 

Cagger since : Feb 2007

Posts: 68

 

Re: Huge bill from Npower??? I'm on prepayment meter???

these bill have been generated from old card like PPM( prepayment meters).Basically the attitude in the industry is that you used u gotta pay for it. you have had many opportunities to update your tariffs but you chosen not to.Every time you get Price rise you need a reset, i bet not one of you contacted the company's to ask them to do this?? Take your pain you are as much to blame as the company's.It is a shared responsibility .Usually i can give loads of advice on bills but this really is for the customer to source and arrange access.If you were a credit customer you would be expected to pay for at least the last 12 months of consumption so why should PPM customers be different.

 

Just about says it all really.

[enoughisenough]

For the avoidance of doubt... LOL

 

Here's the link>

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/utilities-gas-electricity-water/166330-huge-bill-npower-im.html#post1801874

 

Night all!

 

npower are a particularly virulent bunch of scumbags

Edited August 26, 2009 by enoughisenough
forgot to insult npower

[enoughisenough]

THIS IS A MAJOR OFF THREAD HIJACK ... SORRY!

 

And speaking of our energy supplier friends... which just goes to to show the lengths that corporations will go to screw us..

 

- Linda Johnson, London

Posted: 20 June 2009, 7:56pm

 

6. I moved to npower last September after a price comparison website told me it would save me £663 a year. My monthly gas and electric payments were subsequently reduced from £175 per month to £130. However after only nine months of moving over - I have now had a statement to say that I am £943 in debit!!! My monthly payments are now increasing to £323 a month - how does that work? Surely the increase in energy prices cannot account for that? They regularly send someone to read the meters but only review payments every six months. I have contacted them, but got no-where.

I think I must be paying for the street lighting too.

 

I promise I will be back on message soon.... any hint of forgiveness for the hijack would be warmly appreciated

[enoughisenough]

Hi all

 

To get right back on message...

 

Does anyone know why Lehmans were allowed to go tits up and virtually no other bank I can recall was?

[Crapstone]

Lack of fluidity..you can't capitalise on what you haven't got.

[Crapstone]

THIS IS A MAJOR OFF THREAD HIJACK ... SORRY!

 

And speaking of our energy supplier friends... which just goes to to show the lengths that corporations will go to screw us..

 

 

 

I promise I will be back on message soon.... any hint of forgiveness for the hijack would be warmly appreciated

 

You're forgiven. I'm still waiting for BG to explain how we used over £800 worth of gas in 12 weeks when we were away for 4 of those! That was over 2 years ago... Tell Sid..

[Crapstone]

softly softly catchy monkey!

 

I've found myself using that saying a lot lately but the concept still works .