SPML/LMC anyone claimed for mis selling and unfair charges?

[Crapstone]

Hi,

 

I've read this thread with great interest as I've also had problems with SPML hence the username.

 

I had a suspended repossession order in 2006 after gaining arrears and ordered to pay £50 per month as well as contractual payments. This company has tried every dirty trick in the book such as adding block insurance when I had my own, returning perfectly good cheques and taking direct debits early or not presenting them at all. Plus a few lost payments they deny receiving.

 

They served a possession notice 'accidently' even though I was ahead with payments.

 

After 2 years of waiting for a decision from the Ombudsman I have been awarded £300 compensation and a refund of all the fees applied to the account with are unpaid direct debit fees and arrears management fees.

 

In January this year I received an almost full statement on SPML headed notepaper prior to the Ombudsmans final decision 2 weeks ago. Now after requesting a full arrears breakdown I've received another full statement from Capstone that shows the £300 compensation taken off the arrears but nothing else. The accompanying letter says I will have to wait for the quarterly statement and in the meantime they will be seeking possession if I do not clear the arrears.

 

Both statements do not add up at all and it seems I owe more now on the current statement than I did before on January's statement. By that I mean throughout the time I've had the mortgage despite the fees not yet being shown as refunded.

 

For example the earlier statement says the balance for 1/1/09 was £63,178.71 but the later statement says £63,698.85 for the same day. On the earlier statement there are sporadic payments of 'Interest on Arrears Reversal' credited to the account but on their most recent statement these have been omitted.

 

Interest on Arrears is there and for some reason this has jumped from being £27.66 on 1/12/08 to £22. 83 on 1/1/09 and then up to £49.39 on 1/2/09 despite the usual payments being made.

 

The Ombudman have warned SPML they will take a dim view of any fees added to the account but that hasn't stopped them from applying a Litigation Management fees of £115 instead for the last 3 months after losing their appeal to the Ombudsman.

 

I sent off a request for a copy of the original contract and for everything they had including the contact they had with the broker that arranged the mortgage. What a surprise! They have 'lost' all the original paperwork from 2003 and can only provide statements.

 

They are a joke and I fully agree that Capstone and SPML are doing all they can to repossess their assets whatever the cost to the consumer and with total disregard to best practice or the law.

 

How is anyone that has mortgage with these muppets supposed to clear arrears, even with a court order if they insist on adding fees and interest that outweigh the extra payments? Where is the Government on this ridiculous practice when they are preaching that they will do all they can to keep people in their homes?

 

Just for the record I'm compiling yet another letter to Crapstone and if they just try the usual bull, I'm prepared to go to court to enforce the Ombudmans decision, complain to the FAS and start a fresh court case for the events that have happened since. Enough is enough.

 

Best of luck

[Smarterchick]

Rather than hijacking this Spml thread I have started my own and hopefully the info there will help others in this debate so link to this thread too if you are following this securitisation theme http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/189177-smarterchick-securitisations.html#post2038664 - fascinating stuff and I need to get to the bottom of my own...any help appreciated

[brassed-off-2]

WELCOME TO THE FORUM CRAPSTONE !!

 

YOU ARE NOT ALONE WITH THESE PROBLEMS...

 

bETTER START YOUR OWN THREAD, AND GET ONE OF THE MODS TO MOVE THIS FOR YOU...I AM SURE THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF PEOPLE ALONG SHORTLY WITH THEIR ADVICE / KNOWLEDGE AND TRUE CAGGER GRIT TO HELP YOU AND OTHERS FIGHT THE CAUSE !!!!

 

b-o-2

[enoughisenough]

Hi Crapstone.

 

In short the only thing they will respect is getting legal on their collective arses. This bunch of muppets will do anything and they need to be brought to book. I read elsewhere on this thread someone actually sent bailiffs round to their office.

 

1. Compile a list of all charges with the exception of payments and interest.

2. Give them 14 days to refund these onto your account. Templates are available on this site but I'm not the best person to ask where they are. Somebody will help though.

3. If they don't (which you know they wont) file a claim in your County Court adding 8% interest.

4. this will give them 28 days to file a defence

5. when they don't, which we know they wont, apply for judgment by default.

6. then write again giving the ball-less wonders 7 days.

Then when they still don't respond get a warrant of execution, ask for bailiff attendance at their registered address and get a CCJ applied against THEM. Whilst bailliff action is outstanding it helps everyone here because I believe They have to 'suspend their normal operations' i.e screwing people and their families out of hard earned cash and homes.

 

There's no point pussy footing around with these arrogant w**k**s. BRING THEM TO BOOK or they'll try and p**s all over the lot of us. Oh and forget the OFT. Still notify them etc, but don't expect anything from them. They all went to the same schools.

 

Then again, so did we, and we're every bit as resourceful as these clowns.

 

good luck.

 

EIE

[supersleuth]

Hi Crapstone,

 

You ask the question: How is anyone that has mortgage with these muppets supposed to clear arrears, even with a court order if they insist on adding fees and interest that outweigh the extra payments?

 

On the experience of all borrowers who are securitised, the answer is: THAT THE "LENDER" INTENDS THAT YOU DO NOT CLEAR THE ALLEGED ARREARS. Their intention is that you redeem your mortgage either through remortgage (which is now impossible) or through repossession. If you were able to clear the arrears, then they would not be able to repossess....

 

...and the SPVs DO WANT repossess. They want to repossess NOW, because, the SPV is contractually obliged to redeem the NOTES that it issued to its INVESTORS. The only way they can raise the money to pay their investors the money they owe on the investor NOTES is to liquidate YOUR HOME through repossession. They then use that cash to redeem their Notes with their investors. The borrowers are the SPVs ONLY source of income - therefore it is the borrowers that are called upon to fund the repayment of the notes to investors.

 

Also note the JonCris post where he informs us that the largest American repossession auctioneer is setting up in the UK - why do you think they can confidently come here - because they KNOW that the securitisation companies WILL repossess so they KNOW there is plenty of money to be made in the UK on the back of the SPVs repossession policies.

 

As you noted - the lenders do not give you a real statement of account - so you can never reconcile the account. They do not want you to reconcile the account because then you would be able to see the extent of the overcharging and then you would be able to argue against the overcharging. The overcharging (which are amounts of money demanded to which they are not contractually entitled to charge) is how they fabricate the ALLEGED arrears so that they can make a repossession claim. Note e.g. the jump in the interest you've been charged -it doubled in one month.

 

Need proof of this reason: Just look at the credit ratings downgrades. When the notes are downgraded, that is one of the events that TRIGGERS the contractual right of the Investors to demand repayment of the SPVs Notes. There are other trigger events that trigger the investors right to have the SPV redeem the Notes, most of which will probably have been triggered. Upshot is: they MUST liquidate your home in order to pay the investors.

 

Once we accept this as the fact, and stop believing that these lenders will be 'reasonable', then we will be better placed to fight them off. Pussyfooting around with the belief that they will be honourable and fair (and a belief that they will operate within the law) are naive beliefs. Borrowers must mount a full defence - in your case (as with everyone else), it is worth going through your accounts and evidencing the overcharging. Even if all you can do is show that their accounts are inconsistent and irreconcilable, it will demonstrate that the account must contain errors. So everyone should consider challenging the accuracy of the amounts claimed on the claim form.

 

The fees are unfair and therefore not payable under the Unfair Contract Terms Acts. Again, another element of the amounts claimed that should be challenged in your defence. In fact, alot of the terms and conditions in the mortgage contract are unfair and unenforceable e.g. dumping you with their legal fees when you have no legal representation. The SPVs are all in breach of contract for their obvious intention to not honour the 25 year term of the loan etc. - this is tough one to articulate in a defence, but perhaps consider using the House of Commons Butler evidence to demonstrate the point.

 

Enoughisenough is right - CAGgers have shown have incredibly resourceful and intelligent consumers really are and although it is hard work, at some stage the scandal of this rot will come out. I echo his sentiment where he says: "There's no point pussy footing around with these arrogant w**k**s. BRING THEM TO BOOK or they'll try and p**s all over the lot of us. Oh and forget the OFT. Still notify them etc, but don't expect anything from them. They all went to the same schools."

[enoughisenough]

Hi super. You beauty! you keep hitting that nail right on the head.

 

I'll pm you later on today with some interesting developments and a proposal which could benefit all which I want to run by you first before I act on it.

 

Keep the faith. EIE

[supersleuth]

Hi All,

 

Very important development that may assist all CAGgers. Check out this thread - an eminent QC will be writing an opinion on this topic:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/186867-carmel-butler-house-commons.html

 

Many thanks to Last of the Mohicans for starting that thread and many thanks to PammyG's input.

 

Supersleuth

[littledotty27]

Hi Everyone

 

Not been around for a while due to family illness,but been popping on when got chance to read posts.

I really don't mind people hijacking my thread,as at the end of the day we are all in this together!!

So by all means,post away all you like.

I have taken a step back at moment due to others needing me,i'm too tired to even consider fighting on at present,but hopefully in a weeks time when I recover,I should have the energy to fight onwards.

 

You have all been doing so well,keep it up & don't let the barstools grind you down!!!

 

Littledotty27

[Last of the Mohicans]

Hi All,

 

Very important development that may assist all CAGgers. Check out this thread - an eminent QC will be writing an opinion on this topic:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/186867-carmel-butler-house-commons.html

 

Yup, something to look forward to

 

Many thanks to Last of the Mohicans for starting that thread and many thanks to PammyG's input.

 

Supersleuth

 

I think we need to thank Sced really SuperSlueth - he posted it first, all I did was break it down into Jpegs so people could outline various points for themselves to use in cases.

 

Sced, take a bow

 

No, take two :)

[Smarterchick]

Bows all round I reckon, you guys have squeezed blood out of an otherwise granite hardpiece.

 

 

Supersleuth, you mentioned this below:

 

"In fact, alot of the terms and conditions in the mortgage contract are unfair and unenforceable e.g. dumping you with their legal fees when you have no legal representation"

 

Is this a fact? I've had 3 or 4 attempts to repossess me over the years having had my mortgage since the early 90's. Each time with all the legal costs being dumped on my account..are you now saying I shouldn't have had that when each and every time I had no representation? I just haggled away myself until they 're-arranged' my arrears. Which legislation because I am going to be sending a letter out toute suit if it's true. I can't believe we keep finding stuff out like this, no wonder the place is in such a diabolical mess with all these scams going on...

Edited March 14, 2009 by Smarterchick
my typing is diabolical too! LOL

[supersleuth]

Yes it is true. But nobody (that I know of) has challenged the clause that is responsible for the automatic charging of legal fees to the borrower. It must be challenged. I've written about this before. I'll see if I can re-find the post.

 

BTW: You're right - I too really appreciate Sced putting up the post (nice work Sced)- but you deserve a huge pat on the back because you started the thread that caused PammyG to join the forum (she says that in her first post)...and PammyG brought our attention to the eminent QC's involvement.

 

And I second your sentiment that we should all take bows all round - especially Littledotty (good to have you back Littledotty). Big thanks to her for starting this thread and letting this incredible momentum to develop in the first place! Maybe Littledotty can get in touch with her ITN contact, that would really put this rot on the map!!!...and make it easier for us to present our points in court.

 

Supersleuth

[andrew1]

Yes it is true. But nobody (that I know of) has challenged the clause that is responsible for the automatic charging of legal fees to the borrower. It must be challenged. I've written about this before. I'll see if I can re-find the post.

 

 

Supersleuth

 

which clause are we referring to? - sorry, vacant moment

[brassed-off-2]

Bows all round I reckon, you guys have squeezed blood out of an otherwise granite hardpiece.

 

 

Supersleuth, you mentioned this below:

 

"In fact, alot of the terms and conditions in the mortgage contract are unfair and unenforceable e.g. dumping you with their legal fees when you have no legal representation"

 

Is this a fact? I've had 3 or 4 attempts to repossess me over the years having had my mortgage since the early 90's. Each time with all the legal costs being dumped on my account..are you now saying I shouldn't have had that when each and every time I had no representation? I just haggled away myself until they 're-arranged' my arrears. Which legislation because I am going to be sending a letter out toute suit if it's true. I can't believe we keep finding stuff out like this, no wonder the place is in such a diabolical mess with all these scams going on...

 

hi smarter chick,

 

I have just been whittling away at my statements, listed all the legal charges, and am going to request true copies of all invoices and full breakdown and explanation of costs.(just in case they forget to send it with my anticipated SAR. Because these costs are not even consistent, for example we had a hearing suspended due to medical issues with my husband, they (crapstones AND hand in glove solicitors) charged us £150.00+ for not having to turn up (courts faxed them paperwork through in plenty of time) then when we appeared 3 weeks later at the court hearing they charged us £130.00+. Iam just waiting on my new statement, as i know arrears balance has shot up anothe r £1.000 + since begining of feb...cant wait to see what they have added this month ?

Am also sending a letter regarding all the arrears management fees that have been applied too, especially interested as to why they added them a week after we had cleared one lot of arrears and balance was actually in credit ??

Am also sending a letter about the so called administrative errors that keep happening at the moment, love these letters, they dont actually explain what this was and how it has come to be, funny they make administrative errors to my expense again....These ar*e wipes will wonder

why they opened up my can of worms!!!!!!!:mad:

CHEERS !!

B-O-2

[brassed-off-2]

Crapstone ...you mentioned in your post, the block building insurance...are you on it ?? i know i am. A thought has popped into my head..!!!

 

B-o-2

[Last of the Mohicans]

Crapstone ...you mentioned in your post, the block building insurance...are you on it ?? i know i am. A thought has popped into my head..!!!

 

B-o-2

 

hehe... ah yes, the "Pay us block insurance EVEN THOUGH you send us noted insurance (but we miraculously lose it and block insure you anyway) clause" - that little bit of fraud is about to bite someone on the arse...

[enoughisenough]

Absolutely right.

 

Now make sure you get it spot on. They will waste your time otherwise! Help is always available here and you can always PM for second opinions. THese muppets trawl this site just to see what they can glean. Use the forum for their abuse (that way it's in full public glare) and us the PM for specialist advice relating directly to your case. Other caggers are trying real hard to put a stop to this abuse, and we will prevail.

[Last of the Mohicans]

 

BTW: You're right - I too really appreciate Sced putting up the post (nice work Sced)- but you deserve a huge pat on the back because you started the thread that caused PammyG to join the forum (she says that in her first post)...and PammyG brought our attention to the eminent QC's involvement.

 

[supersleuth]

Last of the Mohicans,

 

Waiting with baited breath....can't wait to hear what you've got!

[Last of the Mohicans]

Last of the Mohicans,

 

Waiting with baited breath....can't wait to hear what you've got!

 

 

Hehe - edited for clandestine effect, but you got there too quick Twill be... interesting eh?

[Smarterchick]

Hehe - edited for clandestine effect, but you got there too quick Twill be... interesting eh?

 

 

Can we all have a peep?

[enoughisenough]

OK EIE is going for it from his newly acquired comfort zone!

 

If a formidable SAR can get them to back down anything is possible.

 

Help in assembly of the defence will be appreciated. I will keep all you guys posted.

 

These muppets will deny sunrise as it's staring them in the face. it's sunsrise for us and sunset for them!

[Last of the Mohicans]

Can we all have a peep?

 

 

Course, when the time is right - but I did edit my post for a reason, so bear with me if I act coy for now. As we all know, beady eyes are watching - not that it'll do 'em much good in this instance.

[supersleuth]

Oh how I just love humour in the face of adversity....good on ya EIE...you made me howl with laughter: These muppets will deny sunrise as it's staring them in the face. it's sunsrise for us and sunset for them!

[brassed-off-2]

I ve totally lost the plot, with where you guys are coming from... Have i blinked and missed something.. ??? I only went over to photobucket for 5 minutes....

[JonCris]

which clause are we referring to? - sorry, vacant moment

 

The clause which no matter if they win OR LOSE allows the mortgage lender to get you to pay their legal fees. So either way you are stuffed for legal fees which could amount to £1,000's