Managing Agent leasehold Property 4th Court Claim same issue.

[BlurredFX]

WOWZERS!

 

I have just been to my postbox and got my mail, and the AQ is in there! It was franked the 14th.

 

Sent Defence on Tuesday, AQ back to be by the Friday!! Must have caught someone on a good day.

 

The other leaseholders are finally starting to listen to me, for one reason and another - one reason is that they have had meeting about supposedly re-startingthe RTM process!! We voted for it two years ago like, but just ignore that. Don't know what he is hoping to achieve by that - well, anyway the claimant has now admitted (informally) that his case is rubbish, and he can't demand money from anyone. But we will see how that plays out, in the mean time I am playing my own game... RTM company cannot take me to Court without LL anyway... Mind you, I don't imagine that will stop them but never mind!

 

I had to chortle to myself when I opened the AQ (dated 13th) and read it. The CLAIMANT (them) has to pay £220 just for filing their AQ.

 

I actually think that will test their resolve a little for some reason!!

 

RIght, back to the AQ: It looks a little different from previously, but I will revert regarding the details. It's an N150 aQ (11.11)

 

What I AM a little concerned about is getting it allocated to the SCT. Don't fancy Multi or Fast track as I know nothing of them, SCT suits me but the claim is over £5k. Perhaps I could say that thte original case, from 2009, was below the limits, and along with the fact I am a Lip and the case is straight forward? I dont know. Any thoughts??

 

How do I convince the DJ to allocate it to the SCT? I can imagine them trying to throw money at it to scare me off, no chance of that, but I could do without the additional stress, I am seriously ill as it is!!

 

What about mediation?? I have always ticked the yes box, and they have always ticked the no box, but I can't be bothered with any messing round, I'm too tired.

 

Cheers,

 

Blurred:)

[DonkeyB]

Fast track isn't all bad. The level if disclosure required is that much greater, which is more likely to scare them than you.

[BlurredFX]

Fast Track then??

[DonkeyB]

In small claims, the judge will decide on the balance of probabilities.

 

How much extra info could you get out of the claimant by using CPR18, for example, to ask extra questions? If the answer is ‘lots’, then fast track may be useful.

 

For example, you could ask: Do you acknowledge that without LL you have no power to instigate legal action? They are OBLIGED to answer such requests in seven days with a statement of truth. Crippling.

 

As long as you are sure of your case, fast track could help rip him to shreds, and YOU would win costs hopefully.

 

It’s a risk, of course, but it depends on how sure you are of your case. Pro bono legal help may also be a consideration if the statute is so clear.

[BlurredFX]

In small claims, the judge will decide on the balance of probabilities.

 

How much extra info could you get out of the claimant by using CPR18, for example, to ask extra questions? If the answer is ‘lots’, then fast track may be useful.

 

For example, you could ask: Do you acknowledge that without LL you have no power to instigate legal action? They are OBLIGED to answer such requests in seven days with a statement of truth. Crippling.

 

As long as you are sure of your case, fast track could help rip him to shreds, and YOU would win costs hopefully.

 

It’s a risk, of course, but it depends on how sure you are of your case. Pro bono legal help may also be a consideration if the statute is so clear.

 

That's great DonkeyB, have googled the term and I am looking through now.

 

First thing I am seeing is http://www.nationalprobonocentre.org.uk so that's a good start I reckon

 

Ta muchly!

[andydd]

All my cases have been on the small track except for my damages claim against my FH which was above £5k and allocated to fast track, this did concern me a bit, and I did get some help from local solicitor, and applied for legal aid and was turned down, I say 'help' from local solicitor, to be honest they didnt really help and didnt see much merit in my case but they helped write a letter to other side offering to 'drop hands', i.e discontinue the case with no costs but the other side wanted about £10k costs..so I soldiered on, I began to realise my original POC had some flaws so I re-wrote it and had a hearing to accept it, which was done.

 

The FH then I believed realised that my case was much stronger and offered to settled, incidently, my new POC was under £5K but it stayed on the fast track.

 

As mentioned fast track does have greater disclosure, there is greater pressure/risk on both sides, you could of course write to the court asking why you believe it should be on small track and aslo point out it should be transfered to LVT (where there are really no track/costs rules).

 

It would appear to me, they really do have no case and would be foolish to push on. Are yiou aware of them having any legal success (against you or others), with the exception of the default judgment ?

 

I agree with Donkey B, that you could ask some tough questions, whether under disclosure rules or perhaps use CPR 18 or 38.7, (although these are strictly speaking not for small track if it goes that route).

 

Andy

[BlurredFX]

Cheers for that Andy, first hand experience is always great.

 

My principal objective is getting this sorted ASAP, regardless of costs. I think there is a distinct possibility that the company may go skint to avoid paying me!! If not, they will be bloody minded about not giving me the money. I can see it going the HCEO route, or whichever is appropriate. I suppose there is enough experience of those round these forums (lol?).

 

I would like costs, and believe I should be entitled to some - at the end of the day, I have had to attend a number of hearings and spend a whole load of time dealing with their incompetence and malice - and it is malice. I have left the personalities out of it, but the two people propagating this lot (one resident and one rogue management co) have made it personal. He thinks he has the moral high ground. I don't. It's the LL responsibility, therefore his fault. I am plenty happy with my legal standing.

 

The Director of "Friendly Society Ltd" (neighbour and leaseholder like me) has made it clear that "you won't get a penny out of me" - but then Director of "Rogue Management Co" is feeding him duff info. I don't think he knows it's even been set-aside or what it means! But Friendly is the one who realised I had gone into hospital very very ill, near dead, and told Rogue to go for it - and they did! Swines.

 

There was also a meeting last week about starting the RTM process, of course led by Rouge and Friendly, and Friendly shouted for me to "p*** off" right across the table in front of everyone. I just laughed and left. They always talk and never do anything. Apparently after that, one of the neighbours asked Rogue if the agreements were all "legal" and he said "no", and it became apparent that payments are voluntary. Who knows. The new LL taking over, and doing things correctly, has prompted a lot of questions and the whole facade (Rogue and Friendly)is falling apart. New LL are clueless as to Court action even being on-going, as far as I know!! None f their business anyway I don't suppose they would even be interested!!!

 

I believe even if they go RTM, they need LL for forfeiture. Can anyone confirm?

 

When I asked if he (neighbour, Mr Friendly)got the docs I served on him (my defence and CC), he didn't know what I was talking about. I just told him (my neighbour Mr Friendly)to speak to his mate (Mr Rogue Management). Then he swore venomously at me, and I left. They were delivered SD, and I have the AQ through, so whatever.... they've been served.

 

In light of the above, how do I get this resolved ASAP? They will most likely be as bloody minded as they can be.

My feeling is SCT, if they even pay the £220 AQ fee. But I think Rogue will have to ask Friendly if he can spend that money, which may prompt him to think again. Who knows. This lot have never had much regard for the law.

 

From what I can gather, he has tried for another neighbour who was in arrears and got fired off by his solicitor on the same basis I am - I assume as much anyway.

 

Thoughts?

 

Blurred:)

[andydd]

Dont really follow all the above Im afraid.

 

As for costs, well, if case is on fast track then you can clearly claim costs at £18ph rate, and this would normally be a lot more hours than a solicitor would spend, xx hours research, etc.. (as per Andyorchs post some while back), this is limited to a maximum of 3/4 of 'what a solicitor would charge'.

 

On small claims costs are limited (but doesnt hurt to ask), to fees, £90 lost wages, travel expenses.

 

Yes, they'd need LL for forfeiture, ultimately they need LL for anything..the contract is between you and him, sometimes management companies are involved but they have ultiamtely no right to chase debts or anything UNLESS they are party to lease. There are many LVT cases where the wrong party has been named, LVT's sometimes allow the correct name to be substitued if they are the defendant.

 

Andy

[BlurredFX]

Dont really follow all the above Im afraid.

 

It's a lot to take in, and basically me ranting on about the idiots who are propagating this lot. They are not normal human beings! The upshot is that I am assuming they are going to be as awkward and kick and scream as much as they can to delay things.

 

As for costs, well, if case is on fast track then you can clearly claim costs at £18ph rate, and this would normally be a lot more hours than a solicitor would spend, xx hours research, etc.. (as per Andyorchs post some while back), this is limited to a maximum of 3/4 of 'what a solicitor would charge'.

 

On small claims costs are limited (but doesnt hurt to ask), to fees, £90 lost wages, travel expenses.

 

What about the fact there is two cases? Will the DJ give me costs for the case that started and was withdrawn in 2009/10? I think he will say you can have costs for this claim which is a little bit of paperwork and a hearing or two. I think I will have to re-visit the first case to get those (considerably more) costs. I may or may not re-visit that??? Don't know.

 

The question I should be asking is: which is quikcest, Fast Track or SCT?? I think that will determine my strategy. Mind you, the DJ could take a different view nd decide whatever... He's a law unto himself - literally!

 

Yes, they'd need LL for forfeiture, ultimately they need LL for anything..the contract is between you and him, sometimes management companies are involved but they have ultiamtely no right to chase debts or anything UNLESS they are party to lease. There are many LVT cases where the wrong party has been named, LVT's sometimes allow the correct name to be substitued if they are the defendant.

 

That's great, thanks. I was wondering of Claimant had decided to attempt RTM all of a sudden as a means of thwarting my efforts to get my money back. Maybe Claimant think's that is what he is doing, but as long as he can't, I am happy for them to amuse themselves.

 

I have been reading up on RTM and I saw somewhere that I could object to RTM if those people proposing it gave e cause for concern, and this lot clearly do - it's scary, they left my home uninsured. We had a gas leak at the time as well. Imagine... anyways... I am chattin on.

 

Which track is quickest?

 

Can I object to RTM?

 

Nice one,

 

FX

[andydd]

Hi.

 

I dont think you can claim costs for the first case as its been and gone, it doesnt sound like it was ended properally, it should of either been settled (as the claimant alleges that you paid !), or discontinued in the proper fashion, either way, when thecalim was ended was the time to ask for costs, although if on small track, it would be unlikely.

 

I dont know about speed of tracks, I thought that Fast was called so becuase it was fast compared to a complex multi track case but it may be that small claims are faster, but often there are delays of many months sometimes years...obvioulsy things like summary judgement are a good way of bringing all to an end (hopefully) quickly (IF its suitable).

 

RTM's need above a certain percentage of LH's to agree to it, above 50% I believe and there are various other rules I cant recall at the moment. You either agree to it or not, you dont have to/or need to give specific reasons...if you think they cant be trusted then perhaps persuede the other LH's not to vote for one...BUT generally speaking RTM's are popular as they are run by the LH's and they get ride of a troublesome LL/FH and perhaps the MA he has chosen, although the RTM could chose to use the same MA if it suited them.

 

Andy

 

Andy

[BlurredFX]

Right Guys,

 

With this being a bit of a general, possibly silly, question relating to procedure, I will try and bring people up to date within this post.

 

Just a quick question, but I don't want to get caught out. Who has to pay the fees? I assume them, and I have received a General Form of Judgment or Order (dated 3rd April) that says:

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT: 1. Unless the Claimant pays the hearing fees by 12 April 2013 the claim shall be struck out.

 

Now, At the top of the order it has Them listed as the Claimant and Me as Defendant, which is correct. Initially it is them that brought the claim; and they have messed around with fees previously, I think I am reading the situation correctly. i.e. the OS has yet to pay their fee! And if they don't, their claim will be struck out? But, as I have put a Counterclaim in, I don't want my Counterclaim to get struck out as well, or something bad, as I have misread something.

 

The reason I am a little apprehensive is that (if anyone can recall otherwise I will explain) the Judgement has already been set-aside and I was given permission to submit a Defence and Counterclaim, which I have done. A hearing has been scheduled for end of May 2013, which is what this fee is for.

 

I'm scared because I don't want my COUNTERCLAIM (for the monies already taken under threat of home repossession while I was in Hospital in 2011/12) to get missed and me get left in legal no man's land (again).

 

I have been in hospital again recently but was released again on Wednesday. The fee has to be paid by this Friday - which I can do easily enough if I need to - but I don't think I to,do I?!? Can someone offer come clarity? I don't mind answering questions if the above is garbled up!

 

Blurred:)

[DonkeyB]

There is a fee to pay for a counterclaim, I believe – did you pay one? If not, call the court to check exactly what the order means.

[BlurredFX]

I have spoken to the Court and the lady there said it is defo for them for them to pay - which makes sense.

 

When I applied to have the Judgement set-aside, (which I achieved) my fees were waived due to my being on ESA.

 

She said if it had anything to do with the counterclaim, it would have said so on the form.

 

WHAT does it mean for me (and my Counterclaim) if their claim in STRUCK OUT? It has currently been set-aside.

 

Cheers,

 

Blurred:)

[DonkeyB]

You win, and go for costs. Also make sure that your counterclaim stays alive - sometimes they get forgotten, but keep in touch with the court.

[BlurredFX]

The Counterclaim is for £thousands- they took money off my Mortgage Company under threat of repossession. Costs I would like, but will live without. But I will just have to, as you say "keep in touch with the court."

 

I think I will become friendly with some people in the Court, or familiar at least.

 

Thanks once again

 

FX

[andydd]

That all makes sense, the conpany remains the claimant, blurred remains the defendant, even during the counterclaim. As suggested you want their claim to be struck out and the counterclaim to remain live, when i was in same situation my counterclaim was nearly forgot about.

[BlurredFX]

Thanks one and all for the practical advice. At least my fears are seemingly well founded.

 

If the Court were to miss the Counterclaim, it would be an absolute disaster!! I mustn't let it happen, the mortgage co need their money back, lest I pay interest on it for the next twenty years or so.

 

Here's my plan: I will simply Phone, Fax, Email and Post a letter, as a Litigant in Person, explaining that I would be most grateful if my counterclaim is not forgotten. Is there a form of words I should use, or should I go for the plain English option? I think plain English.

 

I don't think a couple of extra phone calls is likely to do any harm, just to make sure the point gets home. I can be quite determined in this respect.

 

Thanks,

 

Blurred

[DonkeyB]

Yes, a letter to the court would be good. Hopefully they should strike out of their own volition, but a letter on file pointing at the counterclaim would save a lot of bother down the line.

 

And yes, andydd, cases like yours were exactly what I had in mind!

[BlurredFX]

How does this look, folks? Thanks in advance

 

FAO: Court Manager

Localsville Friendly Court

 

Dear Sirs,

 

CLAIM 1ABCDEF The Other Side vs BlurredFX

 

I am the defendant in the above claim, and a litigant-in-person. The Judgement initially entered against me regarding this matter has been set-aside. At the hearing where I applied for a set-aside, I was also given permission to submit a defence and counterclaim, which I have done. A hearing has been scheduled for xxth May 2013, for which The Other Side has to pay a fee.

 

I have recently received a General Form of Judgement or Order from this court regarding the above and that the Claimant pay their fee for the hearing of the xxth May 2013, and if they do not, their claim will be struck out.

 

I would like to bring it to the attention of the court that I am pursuing the Claimant for monies he has already taken from me (under threat of home repossession), in the form of a Counterclaim to their Claim !ABCDEF, and politely request that due consideration be given to my counterclaim in any Order made, should The Other Side fail in their obligation to pay a fee, or otherwise.

 

I trust the contents of this letter are clear, but if I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me on123446778884

 

Yours sincerely,

 

BlurredFX

 

Blurred:)

[DonkeyB]

Brilliant – having that on the court file will be very useful.

[BlurredFX]

Brilliant – having that on the court file will be very useful.

 

Super, thanks. I will communicate this to the court tomorrow in as many ways as possible, including, but not limited to carrier pigeon!

 

Thanks once again,

 

Blurred:D

[andydd]

After I won my summary judgment my freeholders solicitor didnt seem to know about the counterclaim but then again he annouced he wasnt representing him any more so prob didnt care (he'd made a cock up of most cases thus making it easy for me ).

 

But my Cc was forgoten about and I had to visit court to sort it out, I recall it was pretty easy, just pointed to clerk that there was a counterclaim and it will continue, but then my FH went for mediation abnd settled on a sum I was happy with. The end result of my Fh claim AGAINST me for two grand odd ended with their claim being struck out, awarded me £280 costs and got £275 for my CC

 

Andy

[BlurredFX]

After I won my summary judgment my freeholders solicitor didnt seem to know about the counterclaim but then again he annouced he wasnt representing him any more so prob didnt care (he'd made a cock up of most cases thus making it easy for me ).

 

But my Cc was forgoten about and I had to visit court to sort it out, I recall it was pretty easy, just pointed to clerk that there was a counterclaim and it will continue, but then my FH went for mediation abnd settled on a sum I was happy with. The end result of my Fh claim AGAINST me for two grand odd ended with their claim being struck out, awarded me £280 costs and got £275 for my CC

 

Andy

 

Nice result that Andy, couple of grand is defo worth keeping hold of. With enough for a very nice treat as well. Let's hope I manage to grind out a similar result in the end. Please!!!!!

 

Just thinking that if I received the AQ and returned it, and it has been allocated to the SCT, then The Other Side must have returned the AQ, but not their fee - they have done that before if I recall correctly! So I am guessing they will pay at the last minute, but I am happy with the course of we've action. Letter posted. Will email it tomorrow.

[BlurredFX]

OK. Deep breaths. Dated yesterday, arrived today:

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

The Claimant having failed to pay the hearing fee as required by the Court, the claim has been struck out and the Claimant is liable to pay the Defendants costs unless the Court orders otherwise.

 

Not quite sure what this is, sounds good, but it isn't quite an order for me to get my money back. The money that they took while I was on life support, that I have put in my counterclaim. Have they missed my counterclaim, despite my putting a letter in to remind them (the Court)? I suppose it does give me the opportunity to whack them (other side) for a few hundred or so in costs, might even chance my hand at lumping this and the previous claim together if they are not even going to bother arguing?!?!?!

 

Confused. Help!!!

 

Blurred

[DonkeyB]

Looks like they have not issued default judgment on your counterclaim. Not my strongest area this, so perhaps call the court and ask why the counterclaim has been ignored.