Managing Agent leasehold Property 4th Court Claim same issue.

[BlurredFX]

Ok, right, I may need some input or clarification here.

 

I have just spoken to the Court, asking what fees the claimant has paid and what not. The nice lady at the Court tells me that they have paid their AQ fee of £220 (in March for the DJ to "allocate it"), but they have failed to pay their hearing fee???

 

That tallies with the Order, as it mentions Court fee, not AQ fee!! I, foe one, didn't realise they were separate - but then I don't go round starting Court action with no legal right to do so

 

Seems to put a major chink in their armour if they are going to claim non-receipt off all the documents, I would think. Any other thoughts?

 

I suppose I could issue a stad demand but not follow it through (aka CaoQuest???) Naughty Blurrred...!

 

Thanks guys, I feel that this may be a long one (started in 2009) but with CAG at my side, I will get there!!!

 

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[BlurredFX]

BTW I get fee remission if that is of any consequence for a Stad Demand or similar!!

[BlurredFX]

Please forgive me for doing this all piecemeal, but I have followed up with Royal Mail and I now have proof of delivery (with signature) for my defence and counterclaim. They emailed it to me straight away. It was delivered on the 13th Feb. Phew.

[BlurredFX]

And I have just found in one of the Court Orders that they had to pay a £325 fee by the end of March for the hearing. Hahahahahaha. I am curious as to what a DJ may make of that though, if The Other Side asked for their claim to be re-considered. It's not a complete disregard for the court, just an "admin error"????

 

Whatever the implication for them, I think I should learn to read Court Orders properly as well:!: Got away with it this time. Poor litigation on my behalf that.

 

Ah well... I am off for another walk in the sun. It's a nice day.

 

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[steampowered]

Do you know exactly how much you were awarded or does the order just refer to costs? If it just says costs my understanding is that you cannot enforce this until you have had your costs assessed, see CPR 44.7.

 

 

(1) A party must comply with an order for the payment of costs within 14 days of –

(a) the date of the judgment or order if it states the amount of those costs;

(b) if the amount of those costs (or part of them) is decided later in accordance with Part 47, the date of the certificate which states the amount; or

© in either case, such other date as the court may specify.

[BlurredFX]

Do you know exactly how much you were awarded or does the order just refer to costs?

 

The Order from the Court states (no more no less):

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

The Claimant having failed to pay the hearing fee as required by the Court, the claim has been struck out and the Claimant is liable to pay the Defendants costs unless the Court orders otherwise.

 

Given,

 

CPR 44.7.

 

(1) A party must comply with an order for the payment of costs within 14 days of –

(a) the date of the judgment or order if it states the amount of those costs;

(b) if the amount of those costs (or part of them) is decided later in accordance with Part 47, the date of the certificate which states the amount; or

© in either case, such other date as the court may specify.

 

So given that my Counter Claim is set to be heard later in May, it would seem reasonable that I cannot expect a specific amount before the conclusion of that lot. Perhaps it is meant to give The Other Side a clue as to the DJ's thinking - giving us the opportunity to settle and save costs. The DJ isn't particularly sympathetic to my cause, but I presume cannot ignore the fact The Other Side are behaving very strangely, not attending Court, paying one set of fees but not another, submitting their AQ but not paying the hearing fee??

 

But thanks for that info steampowered, it'll certainly help with my understanding of what might be going on!

 

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[andydd]

In my similar case when the freeholders claim was struck out for non payment of fee at a summary judgment hearing, the issue of costs was settled there n then, i asked for £900 and got £300 althougj judge was unware of the increase in the LiP rate. Timescale to pay was agreed at court too and FH did pay up quickly. My CC then went ahead a few months later.

[steampowered]

Yes they are behaving very strangely.

 

I think you are following the right approach. It is probably best to get the whole thing resolved including your counter-claim ( remember to ask for costs in relation to your counterclaim, so far you have only been awarded costs of the strike out). Generally it is simpler to present a schedule of costs at the hearing ask the court to fix the amount there and then, but I guess you are going to need to do an assessment anyway to get costs from the strike out.

 

Once the counterclaim has been resolved you can then try to get the strike out costs assessed.

[BlurredFX]

Right,

 

I am drawing up my costs schedule for the hearing in the morning. Wish me luck, I will post it up here for scrutiny if you would be so kind!!

 

Cheers,

 

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[DonkeyB]

If the hearing is tomorrow, your costs should be in today, and served also on the oppo today!

[DonkeyB]

Of course that doesn’t apply to costs they have already been ordered to pay.

[citizenB]

Yes, no problem. Remember LiP costs are now at £18.00 per an hour for time

[BlurredFX]

Really??

 

The one case I have lost against Honours Student Loands, I was hit for costs on the day of the hearing. Never seen them before, but they were reasonable, so the DJ just waved them through!!

 

Should I not bother?

 

FX

[DonkeyB]

Yes, but email/fax them today if at all possible.

[DonkeyB]

You could just play the dumb LiP with the judge...

[BlurredFX]

Well, the Order from Mid April says "the Claimant is liable to pay the Defendants costs unless the court orders otherwise".

 

On that basis, I should get it in?

 

Hmmm I can't see me getting it done by 5pm tbh

 

[BlurredFX]

You could just play the dumb LiP with the judge...

 

What are you suggesting lol??I was never a member of RADA, but I don't think much acting will be required you know!! Duuurrrrrrrrrr.

 

I'll draw it up and chance my hand. My main concern is getting my money back - a few hundred in costs isn't a big deal insomuch that I can do without the stress, I am still very ill and not imporoving much. That said, I can only try my best without bursting an artery!

 

[DonkeyB]

I don’t think you’ll hav a problem getting your costs awarded by the court.

 

Your problem is in enforcing...

[BlurredFX]

I don’t think you’ll hav a problem getting your costs awarded by the court.

 

Do you think? I hope so. I am more concerned about the £6k they took from me...

 

I have just discovered a fully done schedule of costs (dated Jan) that I have absolutely no recollection of doing. Maybe I should listen more when people say I am not operating at full capacity!?! Jeez, it's all neatly set out, and has been submitted to the Court in January, so just a couple of additions needed. I was about to sit here anddo one from scratch for the next five hours!!

 

Your problem is in enforcing...

 

Enforcement will be a barrel of laughs. The neighbours are going to be wondering why I have been berated as a non-payer (though with good reason), and I (please please please) have an order saying they owe me!!

 

I know the home address of both Director (singular) and the Company Secretary, so it will be easy enough to serve them with a summons requiring them to turn up at court and explain themselves. I also know the money into which all the service charges are paid - though I am unsure if it is a general client a/c or one specific to our development. It could be any - I have checked with banking friends. BUT, we do have to pay Service Charges into an account with payee name as The Other Side - but that means nothing apparently - its about the sort code and account number. So with a bit of luck, I will be able to get an order allowing that to be frozen. I have looked into it briefly.

 

Cheers,

 

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[andydd]

Good luck.

 

Again, I got costs in my similar situation (their case struck out for abuse of process for relitigation), mine came to £900 which was perhaps a bit cheeky, the Judge firstly knew nothing of he recent rise to £18 ph ehich annoyed me and |I hadnt taken proof of the rise (59th CPR I remember) but anyway she said it didnt matter as she'd use the 3/4 of what a solicitor would charge rule and said a sol would charge approx £400, so I could £300 odd, think it was £380 in total inc. fees so couldnt complain.

 

At that point the solicitor announced he wasnt representing the freeholder any more and he had forgotten about my counterclaim where I went on to settle in mediation for £375

 

Good luck

 

Andy

[BlurredFX]

Good luck.

 

Again, I got costs in my similar situation (their case struck out for abuse of process for relitigation), mine came to £900 which was perhaps a bit cheeky, the Judge firstly knew nothing of he recent rise to £18 ph ehich annoyed me and |I hadnt taken proof of the rise (59th CPR I remember) but anyway she said it didnt matter as she'd use the 3/4 of what a solicitor would charge rule and said a sol would charge approx £400, so I could £300 odd, think it was £380 in total inc. fees so couldnt complain.

 

At that point the solicitor announced he wasnt representing the freeholder any more and he had forgotten about my counterclaim where I went on to settle in mediation for £375

 

Good luck

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy, I hope mine goes the same way. Interestingly, my costs come to a similar amount!! Hopefully it is a case of great minds thinking alike!! lol

 

Good info about the 59th CPR update, I will tag that on to the end of my costs, which had something irrelevant previously!

 

I wish The Other Side in my case had a solicitor... he might have been able to talk them into at least doing it properly. Ah well.... see what tomorrow brings.

 

FX

[BlurredFX]

Right, well... not exactly what we wanted. But progress, and a growing sense of clarity.

 

The Other Side were a no-show.

 

I wentinto the Court Room and we (the DJ and I) went through it in some detail, just so he could get a simple handle on the basic situation. As you might appreciate, that took a while and a certain degree of patience.

 

The DJ said, though he can't advise me he says, that my claim is against my Mortgage company, as they had a duty of care twardso ME to ensure the money was due to The Other Side in the first place, before paying out the money. He kinda turned my argument on it's head - saying that if HE (the DJ himself) wrote to my mortgage company asking for money, they would have to ensure HE was entitled to it. And the same applies in the case of this "two bit company" (that's what he called them) that have started this lot against me. It seems perfectly sensible for me, in retrospect.

 

He also did not have the other case details to hand, so I explained, but he said he wanted to be careful and not go making Judgements that would "tread on the toes" of another Judge - which also makes sense.

 

So I need to gather that documentation together etc., etc. from when The Other Side applied for for the money and either applied for a s146 or just threatened mortgage co with it. Then apply to the Mortgage company for my money back. The mortgage company then argue it out with The Other Side, should I win my claim against them. Sounds like a load load of "fun" that I don't need!

 

The DJ said he could strike my claim out, or adjourn the hearing until I decide what to do - i.e. I can still go after The Other Side if I want to or it transpires that is the correct course of action. He gave me the choice: I elected for the adjournment.

 

The DJ said he wasnt allowed to offer me advice, and then described the course of action suggested above.

 

He also said i "was clearly very capable", which I feel I should pass on to all contributors to this thread, as it is they who have made this possible for me. It is you lot who are "very capable".

 

In summary, not really what we wanted, but the outcome makes sense, and in the mean time I got half an hours decent legal advice!!!

 

Lets just hope they don't call the mortgage in lol.

 

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[DonkeyB]

Interesting. But, as you brought an undefended claim, I find it odd that the judge has swayed away... and I’m not sure I totally agree with him. The mortgager gave YOUR money to them, yours because they are charging you for it – so I still believe you have a claim.

 

They can’t call the mortgage in as a result of you making a claim or a complaint – that would be a serious case of not treating a customer fairly.

 

So I guess now you have to go back to the mortgage company and get the evidence of their communication with the Other Side. What odds they say they can’t let you have third party correspondence? If you call them, make sure you record. Have you had any explanation from he mortgage co so far? Sure you have, but useful to recap.

 

And your outstanding costs...

[BlurredFX]

Thanks DonkeyB.

 

My claim has not been struck out, it has been adjourned - basically to give me the max flexibility. I just need to write to the Court to get it Restored, if I so wish to.

 

I had a letter from The Morgage Co saying they were going to pay it - but I have not been able to find it thus far - but I have not had an exhaustive search! Apart from that, nothing. I recall nothing else, but my memory from that time cannot be relied upon

 

Another thing he pointed out was that I had no evidence that the payment had gone to The Other Side - he believed that it had, and I was able to convince him that it had, but his point remained - I claim against the mortgage co, and if The Other Side are at fault, it is between the Mortgage Co and them. Not me. In reality, I find it more likely that it would ultimately prove easier actually GETTING the money (subsequent to any order) from Mortgage Co than it would from the "two bit" Other Side, but perhaps not. At least the Mortgage Co simply can't wind up it's affairs and leave me as an unsecured creditor, which is what The Other Side would do if they had any sense... but they clearly ain't!

 

The ball is in my Court, not theirs, and I think I would be best at least trying down the Mortgagee route first. Does that seem sensible?

 

In terms of any third party correspondence, surely I can get it via a Data Protection request - I forget the details but they are on here somewhere you would hope... lol. If ti relates to me and my account, surely I can obtain a copy.

 

All thoughts appreciated, as always.

 

Blurred:)

[BlurredFX]

The other thing that could not be ascertained was if they actually applied for s146 possession, or just threatened the Mort Co with it. Questions questions....