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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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NPOWER - Issues with billing/meter


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wow!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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35 minutes ago, David2Prit said:

Okay, something has happened. I’m now £1699 in credit......

 

Request a refund :becky:

We could do with some help from you.

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Blimey!

I'm away for a few days so I'm only using a phone but this is very unexpected.

without asking them, are you able to rationalize the sum that you have received and where it leaves you in respect of them owing you money?

I think at some point soon you will have to ask them formally to justify the payment and also have a full statement of account

 

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absolutely. Now you have received this payment I don't think you can bring your action because clearly they have paid you far more than you are claiming.

you will have to try and estimate what the situation is and then following up with a request for a statement of account.

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They are clearly in disarray.

Frankly I don't think you should talk to them at all until you have calculated where this leaves you in terms of who owes what to whom.

You obviously need your subject access disclosure to help you with this.

The only recommendation I can make is not to touch the money in case you need to hand some of it back.

I'm afraid that I wouldn't telephone them simply to ask about the money until I have some information to hand. You already know from your experience that you talk to different people, get different stories, nobody has particularly read the papers or know what's going on.

I think you should go carefully. Presumably they have stopped making threats.

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Oh I haven't touched anything. The money still sits with npower as a credit on my account. 

 

Yeah appears the threats have stopped. Only thing I've had was a phone call acknowledging the letter of claim and that they are looking into it. Which I believe has prompted the current review of account. 

 

Guess I will just leave it for now. Not going to go ahead with the court action at moment, given they actually do seem to be doing something. Will wait until mid next week. 

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Sorry, I thought that the money was in your bank account.

In that case I suggest that the next step is to ask for the credit to be refunded to you to your bank account. I can't see any downside to this. There will be a procedure for this to happen and I think it then puts them in a position where they either have to stand by the fact they credited you or they then start to argue that it was an error.

I suspect if you consult the Npower website – and also the regulator rules, you will find procedures for requiring overpayments to be paid back into your account.
 

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Ahhh okay. It'll have to call tomorrow now though. Going back into work and they'll be closed by the time I get out. 

 

I'll have a scan around the website also and see if I can find anything. 

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Check the rules first. You may even find that there is some website form for requiring this. Keep copies of everything that you complete. If you have to complete online forms then it may not be certain that you get a copy so take a screenshot before you click it off.

If you make phone calls then make sure that you have read our customer services guide and don't speak to anyone without recording the call.

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  • 1 month later...

Any developments on this? Or is it sorted?

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On 27/06/2019 at 19:06, BankFodder said:

Any developments on this? Or is it sorted?

No actually, and apologies for late reply, I’ve been away for six weeks. 

 

Its sorted in the sense they they are paying me back, but they can’t seem to settle on a figure. They have a self imposed deadline of the 12th of this month to sort it out, so I’ll wait for that and see what happens then. They have admitted it was all their mistakes etc so that’s one positive. 

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I can't remember the situation. Have you send them a letter before action? And has the deadline expired?

Also, I can't remember whether the situation is that you owe them money or they owe you money.

Sorry to ask you to go over it again but maybe if you could just let me know what the bottom line is. I'm thinking about asking them to pay some interest if in fact it turns out that you have overpaid them.

 

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On 05/07/2019 at 13:27, BankFodder said:

I can't remember the situation. Have you send them a letter before action? And has the deadline expired?

Also, I can't remember whether the situation is that you owe them money or they owe you money.

Sorry to ask you to go over it again but maybe if you could just let me know what the bottom line is. I'm thinking about asking them to pay some interest if in fact it turns out that you have overpaid them.

 

So I had sent the LBA to npower. Shortly after this my account was refunded, but the price kept on changing. Npower called myself (recorded it obviously) and admitted liability and were in the process of refunding all monies owed, and a compensation package. They then self imposed a deadline of 12th (tomorrow) to have this issue sorted. Which I thought was fair enough.

 

They've just called, and said that I am to get a refund of £700 for overcharging, and by way of compensation a further £200. 

Which I'm happy with, haven’t told them this, but asked for everything to be put in writing to myself and I’ll let them know the outcome within 7 days. 

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Sounds great. I think your insistence on written confirmation is essential because they are such shockers, a few months down the line they'll suddenly get it wrong again and start coming after you.

I have to say I think that £200 compensation is rather light – but if you're happy with it then that's fine – and at least having a compensation figure does indicate that the matter is meant to be at an end.

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I think it’s light also, and could push for more if I really wanted to do so. I’ve left them now and am with Octopus (who seem great so far). 

 

Ill have a think and maybe push for further compensation, but it’s the end game now, finally got them to admit to the wrongdoings. 

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How long have they been in possession of the overpayment? I'm simply thinking about whether it would be worth claiming interest on top of that. The County Court rate is typically 8% the moment

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