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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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NPOWER - Issues with billing/meter


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So 2017.

i have calculated that it should have been £784.64 yearly total. Npower have charged £2114.16. Forgetting the backbilling commitment we have mentioned, they are still trying to charge us that. 

 

So if you take 2017 and 2018 yearly totals comes to £1578.02. 

So payment to date of new meter being installed was £1793. 

£214 difference. 

 

Npower at present state that we have an outstanding bill of £1386 which they have now started to send demands about. 

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Thanks for this but you won't be surprised to learn that because of the break in continuity once again I find myself out of the loop.

Want to know is – if you sue them, what eagerness even for.

You legitimately owe the money from about November 2017 until now. How much do you legitimately owe (including money paid)

How much have you actually paid? Do you owe them money – or do they owe you money?
It would be nice to get this done without any more breaks because having to deal with ten-day breaks between responses is making things very difficult – for me anyway.

If you have overpaid them – then how much have you overpaid them altogether – meaning if you sue them how much would you be seeing them for?
 

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Do you want the amount Npower say I owe, or my recalculated figures as Nov 17 is still showing as I used £338 that month? 

 

Of course I want to proceed with this, for the next 9 nights I’m good and will be on here to get this sorted and sent off for claim. 

Edited by David2Prit
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Right since November 17 until now, we have paid 1655.07

Npower state since November 17 until now (pure monthly costs, not outstanding bill) £1619.89. 

 

But I do not believe 2017 November and December 17 figures have been amended. 

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Well as I say, I've rather lost track.

However, what we need to know is if you have over paid them and if so how much – because that will be the value of the claim – assuming that you want to make a claim.

Presumably they think that you still owe them money so they will then counterclaim. You will then put in a defence to the counterclaim based on the back billing code which is predicated on valid readings and valid bills which in turn are predicated on the installation of properly functioning meters.

So what we need to know is over the entire period – from the beginning of the story how much have you paid them – and how much do you say you should have paid them. Subtract the latter from the former and presumably that gives you the amount that you are claiming from them.

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Okay, just getting figures down and will edit as go along. 

 

Since feb 2017 until now, we have paid £2023.07

 

i believe that since start of all this, we should have paid £1906.52

 

so believe at present we have over paid by £116.55.

 

 

Npower believe at present we currently owe them £1293.91

Edited by David2Prit
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I thought at the outset you said that this all started in November 2016

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So on the basis of what you say, you are going to sue them for £116 .55p

You can expect them to counterclaim for £1293.91

Is that correct?

Secondly, you are relying on the back billing rules. If a judge for some reason rather says that you are entitled to rely on them, then what would be your fallback position. In other words, supposing that they are allowed to go back to November 2016, is the amount that they are claiming still correct – or have they still estimated wrongly – and if so why – and what would you say it would be the correct amount?

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Won’t let me edit the above one. So can we delete that 

 

Below is from November 2016

Quote

 

Since Nov 2016 until now, we have paid £2238.49

 

i believe that since start of all this, we should have paid £2076.94

 

so believe at present we have over paid by £161.55.

 

 

Npower believe at present we currently owe them £1293.91

 

 

So in relation to your last message. Yes £116.55 would be the base claim.

 

Would also look at inconvenience to go on top, which I’ll figure out later, so not important. 

 

I can expect them to counterclaim for the amount stated (£1293.91). 

 

So fallback at present is that I still do not believe that they have estimated the 2017 bills correctly.

For year 2017 they believe that we used 2114.16 of energy. At which point I would want that adjusted to bring into line with what we have actually, used, and it will then show we have still overpaid

 

Edited by David2Prit
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So we need to know what is your fallback position then if the court says that you may not take the benefit of the back billing code in the way that we are interpreting it

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I think that doing your initial claim is going to be pretty straightforward. You are simply going to claim £116.55 p being money paid under a mistake.

Then the fun is going to begin when they defend it and counterclaim for what they say is the outstanding balance. I think that will be useful because hopefully they will then detail the basis upon which they have arrived at that calculation and then you will be able to defend against their claim point by point.

I would suggest then that you defend on the basis of a contract which is implied by the back billing code and also by way of estoppel.

So your principal claim will be something like
 

Quote

The claimant is a customer of the defendant energy supplier – contract reference number XXX. The claimant seeks the return of £116.55 p paid to the defendant under a mistake.

Include a claim for interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts act 1984

 

That should be enough to wake up the sleeping Tiger. Do you think there is anything else to add?

And as with all of these things, don't forget there is a chance that you could lose in which case you may have to reach a formal agreement as to payment of the counterclaim plus your court fees.

Also, don't forget that if this then moves to a judgement against you in respect of the counterclaim, unless you can clear it within 30 days you will end up with a judgement on your credit file.

I'm just making sure that you understand the ramifications

 

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Hiya, 

 

yeah understand and the ramifications if all goes wrong. Got the money if needs be to pay out, but I do think (well hope) a judge has sense and sees something is wrong. 

 

Obviously the outstanding balance is an eyesore and the main issue here, but that would be dealt with via the counterclaim. If they didn’t counterclaim though, where would that leave us?

 

although, would it be worth claiming for inconvenience or something along those lines. As they have taken the p....

Edited by David2Prit
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If they don't counterclaim… This is an extremely good question and it hadn't even occurred to me that they might not counterclaim.

If they didn't counterclaim then I suppose it leaves you wrangling over £116 .55p – assuming that they defend. If they did defend then they would have to raise the issues of what they consider to be the outstanding money and so they would have to counterclaim. The only other very remote possibility that they simply don't respond and you get another judgement in default.

So far as inconvenience is concerned, this is a recoverable head of damage – but it's extremely difficult to persuade a judge that there has been a level of inconvenience which is measurable in money damages.

I think it would be best not to complicate things at the moment but to think about claiming for inconvenience by way of a counter to their counterclaim. However, maybe you could detail here what inconvenience you have suffered and what it has cost you in money terms.

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1 minute ago, BankFodder said:

The only other very remote possibility that they simply don't respond and you get another judgement in default

 

That is my thinking, as they completely ignored the last one. Thinking as it’s for a small amount they may just leave it, and then still pursue the outstanding  separately. 

 

Guess if if they did that I could then bring another claim forward? 

 

Guess the inconvenience would be taking days off to have faulty meters installed. Wrongful information that put us in further hardship (of which I have the evidence), but if it isn’t worth it, then I’ll just leave it. Main aim is to get the above sorted once and for all. 

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Could you help fill in this?

 

To whom it may concern,

 

Reference: Return of £116.55 overpayment

 

As it has not been possible to resolve this matter amicably, and it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.
 

[Provide a summary of the facts of the dispute]
From you I am claiming [state what you want from the party you are claiming from]
I have calculated this sum [state how you have calculated the amount being claimed]
Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you:


In accordance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct I would request that you provide me with copies of the following documents:

I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts.
I would invite you to put forward any proposals in this regard.
[Alternatively you can set out details of any ADR scheme that you are prepared to use]
In closing, I would draw your attention to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.
I look forward to hearing from you within the next 28 days.
Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.
Yours faithfully,
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There are a number of points in respect of your proposed letter.

Firstly, you are referring to the overpayment – "it has not been possible to resolve this matter…" As if this has been an ongoing issue. I'm not aware that it has. I'm not aware that you have had any dispute with them in which overpayment of £116.55 has been the subject. So in that respect, the reference you are making has no meaning.

Secondly, you are proposing to provide them with documents which you going to rely upon. I don't think this is the place to do it. This is something that would come after you see what their defence is and you are preparing for a hearing. You are trying to get them too much information to early on. You should provide them with a minimum of information at this point.

Your offering the mediation – they are not mature enough to be able to deal with this. If you want to get into mediation then you should say that for later. At the moment they will simply see it as another weak threat from somebody who doesn't really want to take legal action and who probably won't.

All the rest sounds a bit like an attempt to be a lawyer – (which is generally speaking not a good thing).

Also, you are offering them 28 days. This seems like a long time to me. A normal letter of claim would give only 14 days. As far as I'm concerned, 28 days is simply 14 more days in which to ignore you.

I think firstly you need to decide whether you want to raise the issue of the overpayment by writing to them and telling them that you have calculated that you have overpaid them and that you like the money back. Of course this will draw no response whatsoever or it will draw threat.

If you take that first step then I'm quite sure that you will be obliged to take the second step – which is to issue the letter of claim.

Of course you can simply issue the letter of claim without any other warning.

In which case:

Quote

reference number XXX
I have calculated that between the period of XXX Day and XXX date I have ever paid you £116.55 p I require that you return this sum to me within 14 days failing which I shall take action in the County Court to recover this money plus interest plus my court fees and without any further notice.





 

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16 minutes ago, David2Prit said:

 

That is my thinking, as they completely ignored the last one. Thinking as it’s for a small amount they may just leave it, and then still pursue the outstanding  separately. 

 

Guess if if they did that I could then bring another claim forward? 

 

Guess the inconvenience would be taking days off to have faulty meters installed. Wrongful information that put us in further hardship (of which I have the evidence), but if it isn’t worth it, then I’ll just leave it. Main aim is to get the above sorted once and for all. 

 

If you have taken time off for them to replace faulty meters then this would definitely be recoverable. Do you have the dates and times? Also, please tell us about the wrongful information and the hardship it caused you

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Sorry, in regards to the letter. Literally a template letter I’ve pulled from online. 

 

I do have dates, can find them on. 

 

and also the hardship was them telling us not to pay until issue resolved (got that in disclosure) so left it for a few months, then them turning around saying you shouldn’t have been told that and you’ll have to pay higher amount to catch up (got on voice recording). 

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Yes, I think you may have mentioned this advice not to pay until the issue was resolved somewhere else in these discussions. Can you tell us a bit about that please. What date was that? Have you got anything in writing or simply a reference to it in the disclosure? Did you then resume paying despite that advice? Why?

The advice to you not to pay is very helpful to you. What particular issue were they referring to that needed to be resolved before you should start paying?

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A shame you resumed paying.

In the letter which gave you the advice, which issue was it that they were referring to which needed to be resolved?

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