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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Barclays Overdraft Fees - Reclaim help required


happycaravan
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the interesting [sic] thing here is the interest ….

 

whilst in an OD state, the account and everything in it attracted interest at their std OD rate..

however, and this is where slick's expert knowledge plays its part..i'm unsure if the 24.9% or the avg OD rate should apply.

 

I 'believe' we've seen Barclays cough 24.9% for this on an OD, but, since the change of forum software many of my notes and links goto oblivion now … and i'm doubting this is correct...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ah really? i thought i'd read on one thread a rate of 29% or something along those lines but i have seen a lot of threads so could be wrong on that! I'd appreciate your help Slick when you have a second, no rush as it's late and i wont be sorting anything this evening.

Thank you as always dx :-)

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Looking back at posts #13 and 14, this is a current bank a/c so why would penalty fees be reclaimed.

 

I get the PAF and the PPI elements but have I missed something  as I thought penalty fees stopped being reclaimed years back.

We could do with some help from you

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My fault Slick I thought it was worth a shot,  do we just forget about the bank charges then and focus on the other two? so do we have the correct interest rates on the overdraft ppi? I have completed a compound interest spreadsheet with 24.9% interest and the PAF  I have completed the spreadsheet with the 8% simple interest. Hopefully that makes sense - sorry again for the confusion :-(

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We could do with some help from you.

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Hi HC,

 

Look at the 2 Word Doc'ts posted above by Andy. Let us know how YF's case compares to the case highlighted in 2014.

 

Did YF fall into a cycle of penalty charges after a single or a few small transgression and suffer disproportionate and/or spiralling charges as a result .......

 

........... or were there regular transgressions where the a/c went into o/draft with card and/or cheque payments.

 

The case highlighted by Andy is (to my knowledge) a County Court judgement so it set no Precedent for other similar cases. However, it does suggest there is a degree of hope for cases where the customer has suffered unreasonably or unfairly by the bank's treatment.

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Slick, 

First of all i'm sorry i haven't had chance to respond before today, i'm not in the best of health myself at the moment and I had to wait for my friend to return from her holiday in order to go through some finer details.

 

In answer to your questions above, and after going over the bank statements again the bank charges are due to the odd occasion when she's gone over her agreed overdraft limit as a result of card payments etc, sometimes there would be 2 or 3 charges at one time. There are a total of 39 charges between the period of 23/08/2000 and 19/01/2012. 

 

If i need to forget about this one then fair enough

- i just thought it worth a shot really but i'd rather focus on the other two as times running short and i really want to get some results on those for her.

 

Could you have a look at my question on post #29 re the interest on the spreadsheets?

once i know i have the correct rates i can get them sent off.

. I really cant thank you all enough.

From both of us xx

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On ‎10‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 13:03, happycaravan said:

My fault Slick I thought it was worth a shot,  do we just forget about the bank charges then and focus on the other two? so do we have the correct interest rates on the overdraft ppi? I have completed a compound interest spreadsheet with 24.9% interest and the PAF  I have completed the spreadsheet with the 8% simple interest. Hopefully that makes sense - sorry again for the confusion :-(

those are correct

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi again Dx100uk

 

I have a question(s) if thats ok? 

Do i need to 'rename' the spreadsheets before printing off? i.e. I have one called Compound Interest - is it best to rename that PPI redress calculation? and the other Packaged Account Fee Reclaim perhaps? 

 

Also as the PPI we are reclaiming is relating the the bank account would it be template letter number 1 to use and adapt? 

 

Thank you

 

 

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yes ofcourse

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you :-) 

 

I am just tying everything up now and was looking for a letter template for the bank account PPI, I was browsing the Barclays threads and noticed one previous thread had used the Simple interest spreadsheet as opposed to the Compound Interest spreadsheet for their PPI  so i just wanted to double check i had input the information correctly. Aside from how long long it's taken i don't want to get it wrong and give Barclays any reason to wriggle out of it, but given the total amount of the claim i suspect they might - this is a biggie! 

 

 

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depends if there is any interest being charged by the OC, if not then you use the statint sheet...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi dx100uk

ok I’ve checked through the statements again and there is interest on there, it just says ‘interest charged’ and then the amounts differ each month. Would that be the overdraft interest? 

 

Thank you x

 

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yes and now you need to find the rate or the avg rate for all the years and use the CISHEET and pop that in cell d15.

 

there are several Barclays reclaim topics here

typically I think we use 24.9%

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes I’ve used the 24.9% as you advised previously thank you :) 

 

I’ve just noticed that there doesn’t seem to be any interest once the charges switch to ‘overdraft ppi’ around 2013.

 

I’m wondering if this is because it was maybe included in the monthly fee?

Perhaps more googling is required 😔.... 

 

Given the interest charged however am I correct in using the CI Sheet Dx?

And once I establish the answer regarding the interest inclusion Re the monthly fee I assume we don’t add interest on our spreadsheet from the date they stop charging? 

Thank you again x

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you end the cisheet on date they stopped their int [claim to date]

you then enter that figure as a whole into the statint sheet the day after [claimfrom]

leave claim to date alone

it auto increments daily till they settle.

 

you are entitled to 8% statint on any sum ..in addition to their int to that point ....as you've been deprived of investing the sum

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you for replying dx100uk. 

I was trying to get my head around your response.

 

I have tried to keep the 2 claims separate i.e the packaged account fees claim and the overdraft PPI claim but im not sure if thats possible (unless im over thinking)

 

because from June 2014 the interest was scrapped and then replaced with a daily charge if the OD was used.

If I end the CI sheet as you say above i am left with approx 5 years of PPI charges still (between 2014 to present date) to record, where would i put those?

 

I seem to be getting muddled and i apologise in advance as im not very good with spreadsheets as is.

its taken me this long to get this far.

Please bear with me :-( 

I'm so grateful for your support

- we both are.

x

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the PAF is all on a sep statint sheet .

you can only claim statint on paf's  not at their int rate sadly according to the fca/fos.

 

as for the post 2014 ppi [after their int ended]

you enter those individually on the same statint sheet as the sum of the cisheet 

you are entitled to 8% statint on each one until settled

 

now the OD £10 charges

ideally those should be a third statint sheet.

as they are not associated with either the PPI nor the PAF claims

 

the process of reclaiming PAF/PPI might well render the AC balance at any/the date of each £10 OD charge in the black so those reclaims might see some/any/all of them refunded under either one.

 

dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you so much that makes sense - i do so appreciate you taking the time to explain everything. 

 

I have completed the PAF exactly as you suggested (phew! i have got one of them right!! the only thing i need to do is add the bank address to the letter and get friends signature on said letter!)

 

The only question i now have is the £10 OD charges you mentioned, i have read back through the thread and can't spot anything obvious but i have been reading all night in an attempt to find a suitable PPI template to adapt (without success!) so my eyes are tired, - is that something i have posted about earlier? 

 

The only thing that i could recall was the penalty charges but slick had advised me not to pursue due to the supreme court ruling...

 

 

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why not mention them on each claims covering letter?

 

the account suffered numerous £10 OD charges post [date] 

should the account [following a successful reclaim] not be in the red now when each of these were levied, I also expect these to be refunded as it would no longer be a true reflection of the account balance at each date.. or alike...….

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I did think it might be worth a bash to be honest, after all what is there to lose?

I had already done the spreadsheet too so no real extra work involved there.

 

The charges were between £12-£22 i think in the end - not got the exact info with me as im at work at the moment

i do think it worth asking for them refunding - they can only say no cant they?

 

Thank you so much dx100uk,

this claim alone is quite huge and if we are successful (the PPI is quite certain as Barclays have more or less asked her to claim) we will definitely be making a donation to the site as a thank you.

 

I just need to get my template sorted now for the PPI,

I have the template but trying to adapt it for the overdraft PPi is tricky

- i have been scouring the forums for days in an attempt to find someone who had posted a similar one lol... 

 

x

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what Template

you mean PPI covering letter

or the FOS CQ you should send as well as the spreadsheet and covering letter for each PPI reclaim?
 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes the PPI covering letter, i have the template already but just needed to adapt it as its mainly to do with loans rather than our situation which is the overdraft PPI. Do we have to send the FOS CQ as well or will the covering letter as and spreadsheet be enough? (per claim of course) 

 

Thank you... again 

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you must always send the FOS CQ

else they'll just send their own one with loaded questions.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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