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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Link Financial chasing deceased parent MBNA debt at my address


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Im not cross at all lolo...but sometime particularly when you are dealing with such matters like this......less is always more..the more you escalate the deeper the hole gets and you cant get out of it.

There are only two things for you to do....send the statute barred letter to link..its for them to prove its not and that Dad made payments to them and acknowledged the debt.

If they can prove it and they write to you with evidence in your name as executor...you then send them a section 78 request (CCA).

Until a court claim is issued in your name as executor....forget all about this.

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Radio silence time

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you. Will do that.

 

Have just looked again at the letter I sent to the other DCA before they wrote off the debt (closed their file) and I haven't told any porkies or misled them so I can't get in trouble with that one either.

 

I did send a SB letter to stink in Dec (registered) and they ignored it then wrote directly to my deceased dad again.

I'll sit and wait and see what they do.

 

I'll also not touch any estate monies until this is resolved or I'll find myself perhaps in debt myself for not carrying out my duties properly.

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

IF they have written to my dad after 2009 (within the 5 years), can it be 'any' letter or does he have to had acknowledged it?

If there is a link to this answer, please do direct me so that you don't have to answer that one.

 

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Send the Scottish sb letter in his name from wherever he left the earth.

you should never have written or replied in the first place.

for future readers..TAKE NOTE!!

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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" IF they have written to my dad after 2009 (within the 5 years), can it be 'any' letter or does he have to had acknowledged it? "  :confused:

 

Its the other way round...your Dad had to write to them to acknowledge...its irrelevant what the DCA writes

We could do with some help from you.

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I thought / believed that too re: he had to acknowledge/write but what is deeply concerning is that an FO has stated that all they need to do is 'show they have communicated with him.' OMG 

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I'll request the CA if and when they prove it's not statute barred :) FO said 'they have sent him one (a CA) and it "looks like it's right but it's the reconstituted one, which they are allowed and will stand in a court." "They will not necessarily have the original" he quoted. !!!! 

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Only the holder of the agreement can request a copy using section 77/78...until they write to you in your name as executor of the estate of the late xxxxxxx

they are not at liberty to comply

We could do with some help from you.

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Please could you post me in the right direction for your excellent Scottish SB request again. I will print and send recorded this week. I've been getting panic attacks from it- it's a disgrace and not what you want when your beloved dad dies and you are trying to work at the same time :(

 

Edited by lolo1
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On second thoughts I wouldn't bother sending the SB notice.....its making the hole a little deeper and you are in away bowing to them as some kind of creditor.

We could do with some help from you.

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ok- won't send. I'll await and see what the FO gets back- they have already submitted comms to ask for evidence of SB.

 

If it comes back as 'this is our evidence'- if possible can I come back and ask you if what they provide is 'evidence'?

I will then close my comms with the FO.

Bit late to do that now so will wait. 

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please read carefully what people say,  you dont ahve to provide any evidence and they will lie to you to get some money that isnt due just to recover what they have wasted so far on a wild goose chase.

 

You cant resolve this by being reasonable and as already said, continuing to write to them makes them think you belive they have somehting to say when they dont.

Ignore them and then if they write again ignore them some more.  They will soon run out of steam and in the meanwhile there is another clock ticking away and that will kil stuff them.

just dont do anything or say anything and you wont get it wrong

 

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Thanks everyone.

 

As the executor (now I am), I'm not allowed to ignore any person/company who alleges their is debt owed to them.

 

What I am to do is of course investigate it.

So that is of course what I am doing.

 

I have asked for evidence that it is not statute barred.

I will then need to ensure that the evidence ifs 'correct' and 'authentic' of course.

I might need some help with that as you are all so experienced in this.

Unlike me.

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What do you mean you are not allowed to ignore them?

You have put the cart before the horse and throughout appear to be looking for reasons to fail rather than just accepting the advice.

 

They will not give you proof the debt is active, they dont have to.

If the debt IS SB it is still a debt ( assuming they can prove that) but just cannot be enforced which entitles you to not consider it when doing your duty as executor.

 

Now stop corresponding with them and the debt will die in 6 months anyway, even if they had a valid claim.

 

Dragging this out by your need for reassurance is only prolonging the inevitable, they aren't getting anything  because it isn't legally due to them.

 

you should have just told them it is SB and let them squeal or show proper evidence it isnt

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the debt will not still exist after SB, this was taken out in Scotland ...the debt here is extinguished after 5yrs. does not exist...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes gone, ignore them

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well according to Link

- the debt was not SB as my father paid an amount 2 months before it was assigned.

Waiting to see the evidence.

 

Has anyone known instances where they 'invent' a small payment made?

 

How do you check if they have just listed a payment and actually it was not made by the debtor?

 

I think I read somewhere that Link/others do this. 

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oh yes Link are masters at creating phantom payments all the time

used to be their favourite trick.

 

incidentally if they are saying 'before assignment' - that means to the original creditor

a quick phonecall to them [the OC] will disprove this as they MUST hold data for atleast 6yrs under the 

prevention of fraud act 

and 

the Data protection act.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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It's not up to you to check, it's up to them to show the evidence.

 

When my brother died and I was in your position all the various companies he owed money to as a matter of course always immediately sent proof of the debt.

 

Otherwise I could just read the obituary section of the local newspaper this week and send letters to all the deceased people's families saying the dead person owed me £500.

 

No way would they take you to court

   - it's not really their debt anyway

   - presumably MBNA sold the debt as they thought they had no hope of getting any money

   - the person who owed the money is dead

   - there are no assets

   - the debt is statue barred.

 

Ignore them & their shenanigans.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Link Financial chasing deceased parent MBNA debt at my address

even if a payment had been made they still have to prove HE made that payment.

A refund of some fee wont restart the clock nor will a well meaning relative sending a cheque to help things out, 2 things they like to try and tell you will when they know it is untrue.

the other common one is to allocate the £1 statutory fee for a CCA request towards the debt, again a no-no

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thank you for your help still with this :)

 

Waiting to 'see' what apparent amount he 'apparently' paid. And indeed if it was him.

 

It looks like my father 'may' have signed a debt clinic letter in 2014 (think that is what it is called) involving an mbna debt and the ombudsman said that is perhaps evidence he has admitted to the debt and acknowledged it?

 

IF it turns out it cannot be classed as statute barred, how do I go about trying to get the amount owed (full and final settlement) decreased?

 

Has anyone had any success with making an offer with this hideous company 'Link'?

 

I'm assuming the fact the owner I worth millions that they do not accept a penny less?

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Never seen a court claim bough for a supposed letter of admittance.

Stop falling for their tricks!!

Ignore then!!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This is the debt counsellor letter been sent to me.

It was signed by my father on May 2nd 2014 (I can see it's his signature supposedly and name printed) and on page 2 lists his outgoings etc.

 

Interestingly the date at the top of the letter is Sept of that year - 5 whole months later? 

My father supposedly took this card out in 2006.

 

MBNA told Link (waiting for evidence) that he last paid something in 2014.

My query is when he had died in 2018 - why had they not taken him to court? It's 4 years!

 

Please don't say ignore them - I'm executor for his estate and I have to make sure that it is enforceable or not enforceable before distributing monies to other creditors and beneficiaries.

 

There isn't a lot but I will be held liable if it is proven Link is owed that money.

 

debt counsellors.pdf edit.jpg

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