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    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
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EE No Free Gifts Breach of Contract?


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In October I took out a contract with EE for an Huawei Mate 20 Pro, I chose this phone because of the offer of a free wireless charger and Huawei smart watch.

 

i was told that I’d receive this within 15-30 days after the start of my contract.

 

I filled in the claim form a long time ago and I still haven’t received these, it’s been around 70 days now since I took out the contract.

 

EE are just fobbing me off as are Huawei, EE we saying they can’t do anything or check or chase it up and they are saying it’s not a breach of contract.

 

Huawei have just said I’ll get them at some point but they can’t and won’t say when.

 

In my eyes it is a breach of contract as I haven’t got the items which were part of the contract and terms that I signed up for, they also offered me a deadlock letter but after saying I wanted one they seem to be dodging that and haven’t provided it or said anything else further about it.

 

Where do I stand?

 

Thanks.

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File a formal complaint so they are obliged to chase it up and give a proper answer.

 

They offered a deadlock letter sure. But with a formal complaint they MUST give you one. What were the terms of the contract. It should state who will supply them or any qualifying reasons

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Thanks for your reply.

 

I have filed a formal complaint, two in fact but despite this EE say they cannot chase it up or do anything and it’s all down to me.

 

Huawei supplies them, however, it was stated on the offer when I signed up for this contract that I would get them and I have proof of that as I have emails from EE giving me the claim form and everything a couple of months ago.

 

The only qualifying reason was to take out an Huawei Mate 20 Pro on contract.

 

Regardless of who is supplying them, I haven’t received goods stated on the contract offer, therefore breached contract surely?

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Nope Once you file the complaint, they have 8 weeks to issue the deadlock or you can take it further. They know that many people back down if they stall.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Depends on the wording of the contract regarding the gifts

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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I have no doubt but that the free gift is part of the contract and their failure to supply the gift is a breach.

 

also, I wouldn't bother to start getting involved in their own personal/industrial procedures.

 

I suppose that im super aggressive about these things but if I were you I would simply issue a letter before claim and then sue them without any mucking around.

 

What is the value of the gifts?

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I should also say that these people have their own procedures which means their own internal system of dealing with things and then eventually a final response and then eventually an ombudsman.

 

why on earth do you bother to get involved in those procedures when you have your own perfectly good procedure which is the county court process.

 

People need to start taking control by ignoring internal procedures and half-hearted limp-wristed ombudsman services. If more people simply started using the county court immediately, a lot more of these companies would come to heel.

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I have no doubt but that the free gift is part of the contract and their failure to supply the gift is a breach.

 

also, I wouldn't bother to start getting involved in their own personal/industrial procedures.

 

I suppose that im super aggressive about these things but if I were you I would simply issue a letter before claim and then sue them without any mucking around.

 

What is the value of the gifts?

 

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for the reply and info given.

 

I want the contract cancelled due to breach of contract, which I have informed EE of but obviously they have refused as they state there hasn't been a breach of contract.

 

I want to terminate the contract firstly and I am happy to do a letter before action as well.

 

So to do this what would you suggest that I do? Also, could i sue them as well as terminate the contract?

 

The Smart watch is worth around £200+ and the wireless charger around £50 at a guess.

 

All they are doing is blaming the manufacturer Huawei by stating that its their promotional offer and that i keep chasing them and that they can't access any info or chase them or give me any further information.

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I'm on the telephone now. Please check back tomorrow for a response.

 

In the meanwhile, please can you post up the evidence of the contract and this gift in pdf format

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The contract was placed online so I don't have a copy of that.

 

Contract was ordered on 22nd October 2018

 

All I have is emails from EE.

 

One from 30th October 2018 stating:

 

"To claim your products you can claim your free Huawei Watch and Wirless Charger 14 days after you get your phone by going to Huawei's promotional portal and filling in their online form.

 

"You'll need to enter your IMEI number, proof of pre-order and some personal details to submit your claim"

 

 

This phone was pre ordered on 22nd October and it was released on around the 30th October 2018"

 

The EE offer was a pre-order on the Huawei Mate 20 Pro mobile phone.

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Also, I received an email from Huawei 6 weeks ago stating that my claim has been validated for fulfillment and would be received by myself within 30 days of receipt of the email.

 

So currently, it's three weeks beyond that and still not received and I have EE and Huawei fobbing me off with EE blaming Huawei and aren't interested, just stating that I need to chase Huawei which I have done several times.

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So it clearly states that the free gifts worth £259 will be received within 30 days of a validated claim.

 

My claim was validated 6 weeks ago and they haven't been received.

 

And looking at the comments on that EE page (the link i provided above for the free gifts offer) other people are having the same issue and seems they are saying it's a breach of contract too due to non delivery of the items.

 

Some people have got theirs a long time ago, myself and a few others haven't, breach of contract and I want to terminate the contract, it's unacceptable.

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So, I'm going to request that EE terminates this contract free of charge within the next 14 days in a letter before action due to breach of contract due to non delivery of goods.

 

If not, I'll sue them for the cost of the remainder of the contract plus £259 for the cost of the items that I have not received.

 

That's about right isn't it?

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Although I am quite clear that the absence of the free gift amounts to a breach of contract, I'm not at all clear that it is sufficient to give you grounds to terminate the contract. This is because a breach must undermine the purpose of the contract in order to be sufficient to amount to a fundamental breach.

 

I think it will be helpful if you start calculating the value of your different options. for instance if you terminate the contract then you will have to give up the phone which means you will have to source one elsewhere.

 

Also, if you terminate the contract I don't think that you would be entitled to claim the free gifts or their value.

 

also, you can be certain that the contract won't be terminated immediately and they may bluff you up to thesteps of the court before giving up. Even then, because of their own administrative incompetence, you may risk losing your telephone number. Then you might have to sue for that with a hope only of receiving a small amount in damages and certainly losing the phone number permanently.

 

I think you need to start off calculating what is most beneficial to you. Do you simply want to give up the contract and then lose the phone and lose the free gifts or would you rather hang on to the contract, hang on to the phone and also have the free gift or the value of the free gifts?

 

you say that others have been similarly affected. See if you can reach out tothem either on the EE website or on Facebook etc and bring them here.

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Also, EE keep shutting down my complaints without explanations.

 

They’ve shut down 3, one of them was closed within 5 minutes, I keep getting texts saying we’ve closed you’re complaint, we hope you are happy with the resolution but with no explanations and they haven’t done anything to try and resolve anything either.

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It is a breach of contract, you must amke it clear that the gift bundle was the deciding factor in signing your life away with them.

the bundle being subject to availability does place a limit on the offer but not the contract. So, if I went into their shop and asked for the same thing they can tell me they dont ahve the freebies and I cant force them to form a contract that includes the gifts. Your contract was accepted on the terms that they hand over a load of stuff and they havent so you are entitled to withdraw from the rest of the terms or sue them for the goodies.

If it was the phone that was the important bit them sue for the value of the goods, if you want put expalin that they ahve failed to meet their obligations and you are not under any obligation to continue with them and if they want to play silly sods challenge them to sue you for breach of contract and see what happens to them in return. Try and get them to make the fist bad move

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It is a breach of contract, you must amke it clear that the gift bundle was the deciding factor in signing your life away with them.

the bundle being subject to availability does place a limit on the offer but not the contract. So, if I went into their shop and asked for the same thing they can tell me they dont ahve the freebies and I cant force them to form a contract that includes the gifts. Your contract was accepted on the terms that they hand over a load of stuff and they havent so you are entitled to withdraw from the rest of the terms or sue them for the goodies.

 

This is a very nice point and I think it is the answer to the problem.

 

I don't think that there can be an unequal bargain. In other words I don't think that they can bind you to take the telephone and yet have a get out clause in respect of the gifts.

 

I think that what is being suggested here is that you are able to say to them that if they can't provide you with a gift then similarly you are not bound by the rest of the contract.

 

I think that on this basis we can work out how to go ahead.

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Just an update.

 

I’ve got another email from EE stating the following:

 

“Thank you for your further email addressed to my colleague. Tracey is out of the office today so I am taking the opportunity to respond on her behalf.

 

I have reviewed our records and see Tracey has issued you with a letter of deadlock yesterday. You will receive this to your registered account address in the near future. The letter explains our final position on the matter and the next steps you can take if you wish to raise your complaint with the Ombudsman.

 

As we have exhausted our escalation procedure within EE, we closed down your complaint case stating we have reached a position of deadlock. Sadly we cannot offer any further assistance on this matter.

 

Kind regards”

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I’m going to withdraw from the contract for a breach of contract but how is best to do that, just inform them that I am withdrawing and if they try charging me for the rest of the contract I’ll sue them?

 

this would be an error because you will lose your phone number and also they will smash up your credit rating and blight your life.

 

I'm afraid that the only way to deal with this is go to the ombudsman or go to the county court.

 

if you go to the ombudsman then it is almost guarantee that they will find in favour of the mobile phone company.

 

On the basis of the suggestion which was made by EB earlier on I think that if you go to the county court you have a high chance of success and also I think that there is a very good chance that EE will back off although this is not at all guaranteed.

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