Revisited civil claim ***Claim Discontinued ***

[bha100]

No that could not be further from the truth, im just trying to make sure i get the defense correct, im not a legal person, i took time to read 16.5 to make sure i did just that, in the particulars of claim they state theft of goods, and 16.5 (5) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), a defendant who fails to deal with an allegation shall be

taken to admit that allegation

 

What you are saying is just ignore that, don't deal with it?, just put in a defense that covers the claim for what they state as case costs, which as you have already said they can not claim for, your saying this court claim is not about making a decision on whether she is guilty or not of theft, thanks for your replies

Edited May 12, 2018 by dx100uk
quote

[ericsbrother]

have you read the transcript of the Oxford case?

 

In your friends case I would admit that goods were taken and not recovered in a saleable condition and that the COST of the goods and hence the loss to the store would be about £25 They would then admit that this is owed plus the court fee of £25/50 but the rest is denied as it relates to potential profit and costs that are nothing to do with their actions (Oxford case).

 

If they then want to accept £25 plus the court fee then well and good and if they dont they stand a very good cahnce of having the whole claim chucked out under the new rules for failing to show a proper breakdownn of their claim

 

You dopnt have to write an essay on each point, denying things intheir entirelty is a defence, if a claim is baseless you say so rather than trying top pick a reason to counter or justify every word of a baseles claim. the points dont ahve to be addressed in order either you havent read 16.5.3 properly and that requires the claimant to prove every point they make if the defence is denial so go about that rather than helping the claimant.

 

So, simplest defence? Deny everything and you dotn ahve to write essays but TBH that isnt a strategy that will win the day. a denial that the sume owed is this amount because ...... addresses the lot where you seen to want to find a differetn reason for each and every clause whether they apply or not.

 

Keep it simple and you wont trip over yourself

Edited May 11, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[bha100]

Thanks for your help ericsbrother,

it took a bit of time to get my head round it all but your advise was of great help,

i took your comments on board,

 

i did read the oxford case which helped understand much,

i struggled a bit on how you respond in a defense but found a website on how you set out your defence,

i kept it simple like you said,

I did my best for them,

wait and see now,

 

will let you know the outcome,

 

Thanks

Edited May 14, 2018 by dx100uk
quote

[bha100]

What happens now in terms of procedure ? once the defense form has been submitted to the court what happens next so i can prepare, also on the particulars of the claim it states they claim the amount, interest and costs, im assuming costs refer to solicitor fees, what can they actually claim for under costs, thanks

[honeybee13]

Is this going through the small claimd procedure or another track please?

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

If small claims basically nothing other than the sols fee for the day of the hearing.

Thjis is the entire point I was trying to make about inflated costs that arent allowable.

 

If I sued you for knocking my garden wall down I cant claim the costs of insuring my house for the last 20 years as part of the damages and certainly wont get anything for my conveyancing solicitors work when buying it. If I employed a gardener and he had to do a bit of work then I cant ask for his salary either as he would be employed whter he was shovelling soi near a wall or pruning my trees- no additioanl expense has been undertaken.

They try it on in the hope that you dont know any better and dont object. The courts know this but it is for you to ppint it out, not the judge.

 

 

What happens now in terms of procedure ? once the defense form has been submitted to the court what happens next so i can prepare, also on the particulars of the claim it states they claim the amount, interest and costs, im assuming costs refer to solicitor fees, what can they actually claim for under costs, thanks

[bha100]

Is this going through the small claimd procedure or another track please?

 

 

HB

 

Small claims track, will this mean having to go to a hearing at the court? Thanks

 

 

If small claims basically nothing other than the sols fee for the day of the hearing.

Thjis is the entire point I was trying to make about inflated costs that arent allowable.

 

If I sued you for knocking my garden wall down I cant claim the costs of insuring my house for the last 20 years as part of the damages and certainly wont get anything for my conveyancing solicitors work when buying it. If I employed a gardener and he had to do a bit of work then I cant ask for his salary either as he would be employed whter he was shovelling soi near a wall or pruning my trees- no additioanl expense has been undertaken.

They try it on in the hope that you dont know any better and dont object. The courts know this but it is for you to ppint it out, not the judge.

 

Yes thanks well hopefully i did just that, so should you end up losing the solicitors costs will be added on to the claim amount, that could be how much on top ??

[ericsbrother]

nothing, it is already included in their claim.Usually it states clealry on the N1 form in the box after the amount claimed and before the box for court fees. It is limited to £50 unless unreasonable behaviour can be proven and the benchmark for that is quite high.

have you actually read the claim form or are you translating what you have been told by your friend.

[ericsbrother]

DFont forget at this point you are outlining what your defence is based around, not writing war and peace so bullet points plenty good enough. You ghet to write the book when it comes to exchanging papers at the time ordered by the court and that is usually a fortnight before the hearing date and you havent got that far yet

[bha100]

nothing, it is already included in their claim.Usually it states clealry on the N1 form in the box after the amount claimed and before the box for court fees. It is limited to £50 unless unreasonable behaviour can be proven and the benchmark for that is quite high.

have you actually read the claim form or are you translating what you have been told by your friend.

 

Yes it said legal costs £50,

 

DFont forget at this point you are outlining what your defence is based around, not writing war and peace so bullet points plenty good enough. You ghet to write the book when it comes to exchanging papers at the time ordered by the court and that is usually a fortnight before the hearing date and you havent got that far yet

 

Ok thanks, so at the next stage they will have to provide evidence they suffered a loss and we will have to provide evidence as to why they didn't? ie oxford case, will it have to go to a hearing? i am going to have to speak for them if it does.

[ericsbrother]

the person being sued wil have to go to a hearing, you can speak for them if they ask you to be their lay representative assuming the company dont drop the matter now they see that it is going to be defended and questions will be asked about the veracity of their claim. usually these claims are put in to frighten peopel into paying up rather than as a genuine attempt to recover monies actually owed.

they will ahve to pay the hearing fee first and that isnt a sure thing. Keep an eye on the clock in that regard and if they dont pay it in time invite the court to rubber stamp the discontinuance

[AndyOrch]

Only the claimant can issue a discontinuance..you ask the court to impose sanctions for failing to comply with directions...IE strike out their statement of claim.

[ericsbrother]

Yes, but the claim is discontinued automatically when they fail to pay the hearing fee but the courts tend to be generous and allow the to pay up late or to kick off again after they shoudl have been barred from doing so. By letting the court know the clock has passed the time allowed they tend to formalise things a bit quicker. i have known the courts to phone a caimant and remind them they are a fortnight late paying up and that is certainly unfair to the defendant.

[AndyOrch]

Its not......sanctions can be imposed ...struck out.....not discontinued.Only a claimant or Part 20 claimant can discontinue a claim.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part38

 

Anyway back to topic.

[bha100]

the person being sued wil have to go to a hearing, you can speak for them if they ask you to be their lay representative assuming the company dont drop the matter now they see that it is going to be defended and questions will be asked about the veracity of their claim. usually these claims are put in to frighten peopel into paying up rather than as a genuine attempt to recover monies actually owed.

they will ahve to pay the hearing fee first and that isnt a sure thing. Keep an eye on the clock in that regard and if they dont pay it in time invite the court to rubber stamp the discontinuance

 

Hello, thanks for your reply, received this, court5.pdf

[BankFodder]

I'm not sure that we have seen a copy of the defence. Please could you post it up in PDF format

[BankFodder]

I understand that you are unwilling to answer the questions as to who the claimant is.

 

I don't think there is any good reason for this but anyway it is a matter for you.

I would have thought it would be a matter of courtesy at least to respond to those people even in the negative. People are trying very hard to help you.

 

In terms of the original incident, can you tell us if there were any criminal proceedings in respect of it please?

[bha100]

Hello, i think that is slightly unfair, let me explain, im doing this for someone who has even less knowledge of the court system and procedures than me and mine is next to nothing, im just trying to help out someone who is less fortunate.

 

I do have a life of my own and things going on in my life, all i wanted to do was focus on one person trying to help ( thanks @ ericsbrother ) rather than get bogged down with many people chipping in, that for me was the best way in my mind i felt able deal with the minefield of information, if i didn't reply to anyone and they were offended, sorry, also you personally may not find good reason for me to not name the claimant on an open forum but surely you have to respect that i feel i have good reason not to, thank you, p.s no criminal proceedings

[BankFodder]

You were asked in posts 5, 8, 13 and 17. A gentle "I'd prefer not" at the first request would have been reasonable.

 

Did your friend sign anything at the time of the incident? Do you have a copy? With all the stress at the time, might your friend have forgotten?

[bha100]

That is just something we are going to have to disagree about.

 

thanks for you help, i shall wait for ericsbrother as it is with their help that i managed to get this far and feel for continuity it's the best way forward that i can deal with it, all the best.

[BankFodder]

It's completely up to you of course and I'm not particularly interested in locking horns with you on the open forum, however I can tell you that both you and EB have so far managed to miss the obvious weakness in the proceedings and which represent, in my view, your only chance of success.

 

I would suggest that you answer my questions at least for the sake of your friend.

[bha100]

It's completely up to you of course and I'm not particularly interested in locking horns with you on the open forum, however I can tell you that both you and EB have so far managed to miss the obvious weakness in the proceedings and which represent, in my view, your only chance of success.

 

I would suggest that you answer my questions at least for the sake of your friend.

 

From where im sitting it don't feel that way to me.

 

Thank you anyway

[ericsbrother]

my assumption is that as this is a matter that is stayed by the court then somehting has already been submitted by both parties at the time. Knowing what has gone on before will be very helpful. What iI said basically shows the loss isnt what they are claiming for, this doesnt preclude any other matters so do take advice where it is offered. BF clearly has a different angle so it would be wise to ask, even if it turns out that what happened at the time means it isnt applicable. Better to have the knowledge now rather than in hindsight.

 

 

However, knowing who the claimant is may well allow us to give you a killer defence so please say who it is that is suing your friend. If it isnt the store then whoever it is has no locus standi as per the Oxford case and just stating that will see off the claim in its entirety.

 

 

you have been very reticent to give us any facts or information and so i repeat, do you really want to help this person or not? hand wringing over corpses may get you a sainthood but dont help the living

Edited June 7, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[bha100]

my assumption is that as this is a matter that is stayed by the court then somehting has already been submitted by both parties at the time. Knowing what has gone on before will be very helpful. What iI said basically shows the loss isnt what they are claiming for, this doesnt preclude any other matters so do take advice where it is offered. BF clearly has a different angle so it would be wise to ask, even if it turns out that what happened at the time means it isnt applicable. Better to have the knowledge now rather than in hindsight.

 

 

However, knowing who the claimant is may well allow us to give you a killer defence so please say who it is that is suing your friend. If it isnt the store then whoever it is has no locus standi as per the Oxford case and just stating that will see off the claim in its entirety.

 

 

you have been very reticent to give us any facts or information and so i repeat, do you really want to help this person or not? hand wringing over corpses may get you a sainthood but dont help the living

 

 

Just to clear up a couple of things, as i was helping out a third party i had to be mindful of what i posted on an open forum without their permission.

 

Secondly looking back i made a mistake in not making clear what advise i was looking for, i wasn't looking for someone to give a cast iron defense to copy and paste, what i wanted was advise on cpr and court procedures, sorry i should of made that clear.

 

However it matters no more because i have told them im unable to help any further, once i know i shall let you know the outcome, thanks for the help this far ericsbrother, cheers

[BankFodder]

It's a shame to let it go like that because there probably is an excellent defence. Maybe not cast iron but very powerful

 

I think you should ask your friend to visit the forum and we can discuss it directly with that person