RS Motorhomes - refusing to refund a faulty vehicle **Claim issued - case WON!!***

[Kaiser81]

Good afternoon,

I have purchased a used vehicle from a dealer and there are several things that I have subsequently found to be wrong with it.

None in isolation are major but taken in the context of the number and the prevarication by the dealer regarding the delay in delivering the vehicle I am concerned that the other works undertaken prior to delivery and the repair of these faults subsequently identified may be less than satisfactory.

 

The vehicle I have purchased is a 15 yr old motorhome from a motorhome dealer.

The dealership is in excess of 100 Miles from my home address.

 

I viewed the vehicle at the dealers premises and identified some faults at the time some of which the dealer would not repair and the price was amended to reflect this. The other faults were agreed to be repaired and the dealer went on to state that the vehicle would be thoroughly checked and any other faults discovered would be rectified. A deposit was paid and a two week period was set as a provisional date to collect.

 

After two weeks I contacted the company and suggested a date for collection that would have given them 3 weeks to complete the work, I was then told that this would not be possible as they had had problems with the weather and staff. I was disappointed as it meant that I would be unable to collect until another three weeks had passed and conveyed this to the dealer. He then stated that they could juggle things around and I could collect the day following my original proposal which worked for me.

 

The day prior to the collection I received a call from the dealer stating that it would not be possible to collect the following day due to a particular problem that meant the vehicle could not be moved for 24 hours but that they would arrange delivery to my home address at their expense six days later. I was disappointed but the fact that I did not have to undertake a 200 mile + round journey went some way to alleviate this. I was told to contact the company on the day agreed to get a firm idea of the arrival time.

 

On the day I called the company three times before I was informed at 2pm that the delivery would not take place that day, at this stage I was disconcerted because the reason I was given was the same as the reason for the previous cancellation and that the job in question had not taken place when I was told it had been completed, also that they had found other issues and were awaiting spares to arrive. I was then assured the vehicle would arrive four days later.

 

The promised day arrived as did the vehicle.

The delivery driver did not wait for me to check the vehicle which had by now been paid for before leaving.

 

I then checked it over and found the following

Cruise control stalk damaged

Wheel trims missing

Alarm not functioning in fact alarm box removed and wiring left insulated by a plastic bag

Windscreen washer pipe work disconnected

After market door security lock not functioning

Oil level only just on minimum

 

When I spoke to the dealer he initially stated that anything after market was not in the agreement because he hadn’t realised that it had an alarm or cruise control.

 

We have subsequently had an email exchange and telephone conversations ( I have followed the advice re recording) in which when I suggested a reasonable compromise would be I bring the vehicle back at my expense and have a full refund he stated that’s not going to happen and that they would repair it at their expense if I took it back to them at my expense.

 

I pointed out to him that it appears they are incapable of correctly carrying out a PDI how was I supposed to have faith in their ability coupled with the fact that on the day it was due to be collected and couldn’t because it had to remain stationary it was away from their premises having the MoT carried out.

I would say that I have yet to actually use the vehicle and it was supplied with a 12 month warranty .

 

I have sent an email outlining my concerns and rejecting the vehicle under the consumer rights act 2015.

I am interested to know if you feel I am being reasonable and if so what my next steps are, it does not appear that company in question are members of the appropriate ombudsman scheme.

Edited April 16, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[BankFodder]

When did you purchase the vehicle and which company are you dealing with?

 

Also please can you introduce much more spacing into your posts because reading a very solid block of text such as yours is extremely difficult for people who would like to help you

[Kaiser81]

Purchased on 23 rd march this year

 

The company is RSmotorhomes

 

Sorry about the spacing didn’t realise until I posted it just how bad it looked

[BankFodder]

Thank you.

You have done exactly the right things especially sending written notice that you are rejecting the vehicle.

 

In the meantime how much did you pay for it?

[Kaiser81]

Paid £23500 which is perhaps a little over the odds but thought it was worth it as general condition is pretty good and buying from a dealer should provide a degree of security

[BankFodder]

In your opening post you you are asking about the existence of an ombudsman. I'm afraid that there is no ombudsman service for this kind of thing and it is going to be up to you to sort it out.

 

You have done exactly the right thing and especially, congratulations on recording your calls. Most people don't bother even if they have been receiving encouragement to do so on this forum for several years. I suppose it is like motorway breakdown cover – a huge number of people start getting it after it's too late.

 

On the basis of what you say, if you took this to a County Court then I would estimate your chances of success at almost 100%. The only thing is that although there is a minuscule risk of losing the claim, because it is outside the small claims limit of £10,000, if you did lose then you would probably saddled with some of the costs of the defendant.

 

Please read the post which I put up here https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486134-Marquis-Motorhomes-Dealer-Refuses-to-Accept-Vehicle-Rejection&p=5113274&viewfull=1#post5113274 which by coincidence is about another problematic motorhome and a company called Marquis which seemed to also provide very poor service to their customers once things start to go wrong.

 

Whatever you decide to do, I think you should get it done quickly. Don't get drawn out into some protracted discussion or negotiation. You are absolutely in the right and you need to be sure of your rights and RS motorhomes are trying it on, quite frankly.

 

Even if they come up with some proposal which sounds satisfactory to you, I tend to stay well clear of company which has this attitude with a new customer.

 

You should make it clear once again that you have rejected the vehicle and that you require it to be collected and that you require an immediate refund of the purchase price and any other expenses which you have recently incurred as a result of RS Motorhomes' breach of their contract.

 

If you decide that you want to begin a claim then send them a letter before claim giving them 14 days or else you will sue them in the County Court and without any further notice. Logon to the court services MoneyClaim website, open a free account and then start putting in all the details and drafting your claim. Let us see the wording of your claim. You can save it all down without actually issuing it until day 15. Only threaten to bring the action if you really mean it. Don't bluff otherwise you will lose credibility and then you are finished.

 

Finally, if I were you I would go round to all of the motorhome forums and review sites and start letting everyone know what has happened. I have found that the motorhome community is pretty tight and pretty well organised and so it is fairly easy to spread the word. Equally, where you find a good dealer it is worth spreading the word about that as well. This is the only kind of thing which will encourage good behaviour. If you do go onto the sites and tell them what has happened to you, you can tell them about us and that we are prepared to give free help to anyone who has these kinds of problem.

 

Keep us informed as to what you are going to do. Let us see the wording of any claim before you finally issue it.

[Kaiser81]

Thank you for your reply it is nice to know that my actions so far are justified, it is very easy to become embroiled in something like this and either lose sight of reality or experience self doubt.

 

Does a county court action sit at the nearest court to the plaintiff or would I need to travel to bring the action.

 

I have followed the Maquis thread you mentioned it was very informative, and I will check out the Money Claim website and come back to you.

[BankFodder]

Damn. That is something I meant to refer to that in my post but I got carried away and forgot it!

 

Yes, if you are a private individual and you are suing a business then the normal rules are changed and the case will be transferred to your local court. Of course that adds a huge measure of inconvenience for the defendant and gives you a very good advantage. Don't forget of course that if you end up losing – extremely unlikely – that you will also be saddled with the winner's reasonable costs of travel.

 

Here's another tip. Take lots of photographs of the interior and the exterior of the vehicle just to pre-empt any suggestions that some damage might have been caused to it while it was in your possession. If any of the false you describe are visible then you would be well advised to make sure that you record all of those photographically and in a detailed log. While you have the vehicle, this is your opportunity to make sure you build a detailed file on the whole thing.

 

Your best interests will be to get rid of the vehicle and to get it back to the dealer as quickly as possible. They are obliged to collect it – but eventually if they won't and if it becomes problematic for you to carry on storing it, then if you arranged to take it back to them you would be able to claim the costs of this as well. Don't forget though that while it is being taken back to them it is at risk and could cause additional complications if it suffered some damage en route. If you did have it delivered back to them then you should make sure that it is photographed internally and externally at the moment that you leave the vehicle on their hardstanding

 

Please could you clarify. There seems to be an RS Motorhomes and an RS Motorhomerepair who also describe themselves as RS Motorhome (singular). Are they the same company? Which one are you dealing with?

[Kaiser81]

Rs motorhomes based in Retford

[BankFodder]

Thanks. Is there any link with the other company?

[Kaiser81]

Sorry no idea

[BankFodder]

Well generally speaking RS Motorhomes don't seem to have a bad reputation. On the other hand if you have a look at their Google reviews, there are quite a few people are pretty unhappy – but other than that they're not as bad as Marquis, for instance. On the other hand may be you have looked around the motorhome forums and you know different. If you have links to sites where there talking about RS Motorhomes then maybe even posting here.

 

One interesting thing is that apparently they went bust in 2011 – then reemerged with (I think) the original owners in charge again. Then I believe they went bust again in 2017 and then the directors – who I think may have been the original owners bought the company and its assets and set up again in a slightly different name.

 

This kind of thing worries me if you get companies that are going to liquidation and then reemerging from the flames but out of touch of any creditors. Still, I'm just speculating and it all needs to be checked out.

 

Anyway I think that we probably given you the advice – and you should let us know what you're going to do. If you want a hand drafting the claim then please let us know. Post up an example of what you think you should be putting in your claim form and we will have a look at it.

 

The important thing is to keep it short and if you can operate within the pretty restricted word limit of MoneyClaim – then that is probably the best thing to do. It doesn't look to me as if this claim is particularly complicated.

[buyer-beware]

You purchased a 15 year old MH with some minor wear n tear issues and now you want to reject ? With the greatest respect to start quoting CRA is completely unreasonable. Your expectations should be realistic and befitting of a 15 year vehicle. Also, is it your responsibility to show due diligence and test the vehicle thoroughly at the point of purchase. I suggest you stop quoting CRA and work with the retailer instead of against them.

[buyer-beware]

Can I clarify that you have purchased a [15 year old vehicle and you are claiming it is not fit for purpose because.....

 

Cruise control stalk damaged

Wheel trims missing

Alarm not functioning in fact alarm box removed and wiring left insulated by a plastic bag

Windscreen washer pipe work disconnected

After market door security lock not functioning

Oil level only just on minimum

 

Are you actually being serious or is this a spoof ?? I could add a few more, dust on light-bulb, toilet roll missing, dust cap missing..........

[heliosuk]

Lets stick to the facts not circumstantial reputation.

 

 

At what point did the final purchase price agreed and payment actually take place? At the dealers or on delivery?

[stu007]

RS MotorHomes: http://www.rsmotorhomes.com/

 

Whoisdomaintools check of above website: http://whois.domaintools.com/rsmotorhomes.com (note you will have to complate a captcha to view)

Note the Registrant is: Mike Rowe

 

Registered office address:

RS Sales Nottingham Limited

Un9 Armstrong House

First Avenue

Doncaster

South Yorkshire

DN9 3GA

 

Company Number: 08735418

 

Directors: Alison Rowe & Michael Andrew Rowe

 

Companies House: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08735418

 

Endole: https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/08735418-rs-sales-nottingham-limited

 

BizDb: http://www.bizdb.co.uk/company/rs-sales-nottingham-limited-08735418/

[Kaiser81]

Thanks I have looked at the money claim site and started reading through will come back for further guidance

[Kaiser81]

Purchase price was agreed at the dealers subject to certain works being carried out, price was paid on delivery

[heliosuk]

Were all the works you recorded as "subject to certain works being carried out" done as this formed part of the purchase contract. Anything outside of that would go under fit for purpose which is subject age and condition definitions which are vague and subject to interpretation and of which is still subject to commensurate with age and mileage.

[Kaiser81]

There were some items specified that were completed and some were not. My main contention is that some faults with the vehicle were not discovered in the PDI i.e. the fact that the cruise control stalk was broken and the alarm was removed and the wiring left “protected” by a plastic bag along with other things as mentioned in the original post.

[heliosuk]

Then you have a clear cut breech of contract claim. Points not covered would form part of commensurate with age and mileage and price paid which is a very grey area in consumer law.

[Surfer01]

If a deposit was paid using a credit card you would be covered by S75 of the Consumer Credit Act.

[Surfer01]

Just to add. We had an issue with rejecting a caravan last year in 2017 and were successful. As per Bankfodders post above we ended up in a situation where the finance company insisted we take back the traded in caravan which had been traded in a year previously.

Initially it was a game of letter tennis however as a member of the Caravan Club I made an appointment for a CC approved MCEA technician to check the traded in caravan which had been on the dealer's forecourt for a year. At that point the finance company and dealer backed down and we were given a ful refund and also compensation for the hassle as they knew that there may be issues with the caravan after a year.

Unfortunately throughout the rejection process the Financial Ombudsman sided with the finance company although it was clearly obvious that the finance company was not following the rejection process as per the Consumer Rights Act 2015 even though I did a "copy and paste" of the CRA legislation in each bit of correspondence that I sent them. It was only when I requested the complaint to the FOS be escalated that the next advisor agreed with everything we had said and the evidence supplied. I had joined an online Legal Service and got the correct advice from them which helped win our case. The cost to join was less than £100 per annum for as much legal advcie as required.

I am aware of another customer who also bought from Maquis and battled for nearly 18 months to get a refund.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Andyorch
edited

[BankFodder]

Thanks for this. Very interesting. It would be helpful if you could contact the other customer and ask him/her to write up the story in a new thread on this forum – simply to make sure that we establish a bit of a track record/warning for other potential Marquis customers.

[Surfer01]

There is a possibility that they did raise an issue on this forum several or more months ago. I will check. BTW our issue was not with Marquis.