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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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my son used his girlfriends student oyster card and was caught. He received a letter asking him if he wanted to appeal and if he did not to ignore the letter so he ignored the letter as knew he had done wrong.

he did not hear from them again for around 6 months, and moved house in December.

 

this month he had an attachment of earnings and £390 taken out of his wages.

When querying this he was directed to a debt company who said that TFL had written to his old address in November (when he still lived there) to say they were taking him to court.

 

He lived in a bedsit and often did not receive mail that I sent him.

they say he owes nearly £500 and will take the rest from next months wages.

 

He has always been happy to pay the fine, but has never been contacted about it by email or phone, and has only their word that they sent a letter.

 

He also does not know if he now has a criminal record.

We don`t know where to go or what to do next-can anyone help please?

thanks very much

Edited by honeybee13
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Very distressing situation -I'm sorry.

 

 

Unfortunately I fear you may be confused about the contents of the original letter from TFL (but I may be wrong).

Rather than asking if he "wanted to appeal and if he did not to ignore the letter" I suspect it was simply asking him for his version of events, otherwise they would consider prosecution.

 

If he'd replied with a grovelling apology, an explanation of the "mistake" he had made and offering to pay reasonable admin costs plus the original fare, that may have worked - even if he knew he had done wrong.

 

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean about the bedsit and mail that you sent him.

What address did he give when caught by TFL?

 

I don't know how to advise now with an attachment of earnings order.

Others here will be able to advise better.

Edited by dx100uk
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He shouldn’t have ignored the letter, nor should he have used his GF’s Oyster card. With a fine of nearly £500, bet he won’t do it again!

 

On a serious note, there’s nothing you can do. If TFL say they have sent a letter, the letter has been sent... They have some of the best lawyers in the country & they will win in court every day of the week because they have millions to chuck at everything!

 

I work for TFL, I know some of their lawyers, it’s best to pay the fine & forget about it.

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In addition to the above, probably very good advice, it is probably worth pointing out to your son that he needs to take a lot of care about making sure that his mail is properly received, properly opened and properly read – especially as he is somebody who may be moving from address to address.

 

We get a lot of problems here because people don't update creditors or anyone else with their old addresses. This opens the door to all sorts of proceedings and default judgements and damage to credit files et cetera which could often easily have been avoided if they had been dealt with promptly.

 

I know that it seems that you come onto this forum and simply received unhelpful advice – but in the long term, this is probably the best way to go.

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I doubt you were directed to a debt collection company

more likely a bailiff?

can you name them please?

 

sadly I also feel yes he does now have a criminal record.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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My son used his girlfriends student oyster card and was caught. He received a letter asking him if he wanted to appeal and if he did not to ignore the letter so he ignored the letter as knew he had done wrong. He did not hear from them again for around 6 months, and moved house in December.

 

This month he had an attachment of earnings and £390 taken out of his wages. They say he owes nearly £500 and will take the rest from next months wages.

 

The amount has risen to such a large amount because your son had not responded to the summons. It really is that simple. If he had of done....and had pleaded guilty (which he was) then in the first instance, the fine would have been reduced by one third. Everyone entering an 'early' guilty plea is entitled to a 3rd discount on their fine.

 

Also, attached to the summons, would have been a 'Means' Form' (MC100). There is a legal requirement to complete this form and your son would have been asked to provide details of his incoming and outgoings. If the form is not submitted, the court must assume that your son's income is over £440 per week and accordingly, the fine itself will be set at the higher end of the Sentencing Councils's guidance.

 

Ordinarily, your son could submit a Section 14 Statutory Declaration but given that he had received the initial correspondence then this option is sadly not open to him.

 

What he can do though is to request that the forthcoming attachment against his earnings (of £500) be amended. He would need to speak with the payroll department at his employer and obtain details of the office dealing with the attachment. They are usually willing to amend the attachment so that it is taken from his wages over a few months (possibly at £100 per month).

 

He must speak with his employer on Monday. He should not delay and should explain that if the deduction is taken, he would be unable to pay his rent etc.

 

Please do post back with any progress.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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yes took me a while to find it :lol:

but I remembered it happening

and it surprised me too.

 

 

could well be worth a bash

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Sadly, your son shouldn't have ignored the letter, but it is what it is. There may or may not be something he can do about not receiving letters, others will advise.

 

Who are the debt company please?

 

Best, HB

 

They are London collections and compliance

 

yes took me a while to find it :lol:

but I remembered it happening

and it surprised me too.

could well be worth a bash

 

Thank you

 

I doubt you were directed to a debt collection company

more likely a bailiff?

can you name them please?

 

sadly I also feel yes he does now have a criminal record.

 

London collections and compliance centre

 

In addition to the above, probably very good advice, it is probably worth pointing out to your son that he needs to take a lot of care about making sure that his mail is properly received, properly opened and properly read – especially as he is somebody who may be moving from address to address.

 

We get a lot of problems here because people don't update creditors or anyone else with their old addresses. This opens the door to all sorts of proceedings and default judgements and damage to credit files et cetera which could often easily have been avoided if they had been dealt with promptly.

 

I know that it seems that you come onto this forum and simply received unhelpful advice – but in the long term, this is probably the best way to go.

 

Thank you, good advice

 

Very distressing situation -I'm sorry.

 

Unfortunately I fear you may be confused about the contents of the original letter from TFL (but I may be wrong).

Rather than asking if he "wanted to appeal and if he did not to ignore the letter" I suspect it was simply asking him for his version of events, otherwise they would consider prosecution.

 

If he'd replied with a grovelling apology, an explanation of the "mistake" he had made and offering to pay reasonable admin costs plus the original fare, that may have worked - even if he knew he had done wrong.

 

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean about the bedsit and mail that you sent him.

What address did he give when caught by TFL?

 

I don't know how to advise now with an attachment of earnings order.

Others here will be able to advise better.

 

He was living in a bed sit in a shared house, he moved from this address in December and they said that they had sent the letter to him at this address in November.

I also had previously sent mail to him at this address that he never received

Edited by dx100uk
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that will be where you will write your begging letter to eventually.

its simply where TFL prosecution Officers are based.

 

follow that thread in post 8

get that SD actioned 1st thing tomorrow.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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They are London Collections and Compliance Centre

 

It can be really difficulty getting through to LCCC but they do respond to email enquiries quite quickly. If emailing, you need to make sure that in the subject box you put the reference number and a short message...for example; (i.e: URGENT...Attachment of Earnings)

 

https://courttribunalfinder.service.gov.uk/courts/london-collection-and-compliance-centre

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