Hiya all,

Thanks for the response to my query.

Below is extract from the letter i received and this is the only one I received,

Was living at different address when I gave my details to revenue officer at Tfl.

When I changed my address I called the penalty fares and procecution line to update my details but to my surprise they told me there is no record with my name and DOB they also said it might be a warning as they don't have anything against me on their computer (this is approx 25 days after the incident)

I was assured and did not do anything after that but shockingly this letter came after 8 months and shook my nerves.

Your help and advise is much appreciated.

Here's the letter:

London South West and West Courts

London Collection and Compliance Centre PO Box 31089 London SW1P 3WP

Payments 0300 790 9901 ww.direct.gov.uk/payacourtfine

Information 24/7 020 7556 8500 websiteAP31714

Division:......

Account number:.........

My details

Further steps notice

The amount you owe is £549.

As you have failed to make payment as directed, you are hereby given notice

that one or more of the following steps listed below will be taken against you:

-Issue a Warrant of distress for the purpose of levying the sum due.

-Register the account in the Register of Judgements, Orders and Fines, which could restrict future credit options available to you and make it difficult to get loans, mortgages and credit cards.

-Make an Attachment of Earnings Order (for deduction to be made from your salary) or an application for benefit deductions (for deductions made from your benefit).

-Make a vehicle clamping order.

-Refer your case to court, which may decide to increase your fine by 50%, take further action or commit you to prison.

-Take any further steps as permitted under provisions of fine collection regulations which apply to other enforcement power of a magistrates'court.

Payment in full, within 10 working days of this notic will cancel any further action.

Please contact this office immediately if you cannot pay as directed.

Appeal

You have a right to appeal to the Court against the Fines Officer's decision.

Such appeal must be made in writing, stating the reasons for your appeal and supported by any written evidence you have.

It must be received by this office, at the above address, within 10 working days from the date of this notice.

Please mark all correspondence for the attention of the Fines Officer.

Yes, this is a notice informing you that you have been convicted of an offence at some time in the recent past and that you have failed to pay the fine, costs & compensation in due time. It appears there may also be some further administrative costs incurred too.

You need to contact the Court office and make arrangements to go before a Magistrate to make a Statutory Declaration as previously mentioned. You will be asked to affirm, or swear on oath that you did not know of any proceedings before you received that letter.

If you make a false declaration you lay yourself open to a charge of perjury, but if you genuinely didn't receive any papers then you have nothing to fear. The Magistrate/s will set aside the judgement and the rail company will be free to commence action again without time constraints.

Hello there.

I've started a new thread for you, please continue to post on this one.

My best, HB

Thank you very much for the valuable advise.

I've booked with Magistrates office to do a statutory declaration tommorrow.

Do I need to present anything except the letter from court and my ID.

Thanks once again

Hello again.

I don't know the answer to this question, maybe you should telephone the court before you go there?

My best, HB

The Magistrate/s will set aside the judgement and the rail company will be free to commence action again without time constraints.

Yes; I've always thought it ironic that whereas the original files must be lodged within six months, a subsequent SD allows any amount of time. Nice

Update: I went to the local magistrate office today but they asked me to come back on wednesday morning.

Hi all,

I've been to court and they set the judgement aside but they gave me an adjournment notice and asked me to appear next month in the court which issued the original judgement .

Can I not contact the railway com

No.

Can I not contact the railway company as I have proof of buying a correct ticket from my bank statement.

Thanks in advance for all your advice.

I'm afraid that an entry on a bank statement, or receipt is not evidence of entitlement to travel on a train.

The legal requirement is that the traveller 'must show a ticket' at the time of travel. (National Railway Byelaw 18.2)

This is for the simple reason that if it were not so, any person buying a ticket could give it to another person travelling with them and say 'Here's my receipt, I've lost my ticket'.

I'm not saying that I had a valid ticket at the time of journey and this proof of payment should be treated as equivalent to a ticket.

I accept it's my responsibility to show a correct ticket on demand by any railway official, the only thing i defended is my intention.

He said i've committed a crime

i said no its because of a genuine mix up with my wife's oyster card(2-3 zone).

I was not carrying my own oyster which is valid for the zones I was traveling

he was reluctant to agree on this

he replied that i've committed a crime and he wanted to call the police

I insisted that I spend £2000 anually on rail tickets and i am a honest citizen

how can you call me a criminal for a mistake

I told him that I will appeal against this

he took my details and let me go.

I waited for 2 months and did not get any penalty fare letter

when moving home I contacted the penalty fares and prosecution dept and wanted to give my new address

they asked me to provide the ref no.

I said i've not received anything yet

then they took my name and date of birth and told me they could not find anything against my name

told it might be a warning and nothing they can do now.*

Got this notice after 8 months to pay a court fine.

I think the officer took me personally when I challenged him that I'll only pay a penalty fare and not done anything intentionally wrong as I have a correct oyster but could not show at the time of inspection and will prove that I always pay a right fare

that can be evidenced from my bank statements

as far as 1 year back shows that every week I purchased a zone 1 travel card

Please advice

Hello there.

What would you like advice about please?

My best, HB

I'm not saying that I had a valid ticket at the time of journey and this proof of payment should be treated as equivalent to a ticket. I accept it's my responsibility to show a correct ticket on demand by any railway official,

If you did not show a valid ticket when asked then you can be reported for a strict liability offence of breach of Byelaw. Proof of payment of a fare is not a ticket and will not be accepted as such. This is to prevent one person buying a ticket and a second person travelling without paying, but showing the receipt for the first persons' ticket and claiming to have left it at home or lost it etc.

*the only thing i defended is my intension when he said i've committed a crime i said no its because of a genuine mix up with my wife's oyster card(2-3 zone). I was not carrying my own oyster which is valid for the zones I was traveling but he was reluctant to agree on this and he replied that i've committed a crime

Did you show your wifes' Oyster with a season ticket and her photograph on it? If so, it is likely that you were reported for the more serious offence of attempting to avoid a fare. You have said that you were not carrying your own ticket and if you were using someone elses' this charge is justified.

and he wanted to call the police I insisted that I spend £2000 anually on rail tickets and i am a honest citizen and how can you call me a criminal for a mistake I told him that I will appeal against this and he took my details and let me go.

The amount you spend on tickets at other times isn't relevant to the inspector if an offence is detected and if you were unco-operative it is likely that Police assistance could be sought. He clearly took your details for the purpose of reporting the offence.

I waited for 2 months and did not get any penalty fare letter

If the inspector had any intention to issue a Penalty Fare Notice he would have done so there and then. They must be handed to the traveller at the time of travel, not sent out in the post.

and when moving home contacted the penalty fares and prosecution dept and wanted to give my new address they asked me to provide the ref no. I said i've not received any thing yet then they took my name and date of birth and told me they could not find anything against my name and told it might be a warning and nothing they can do now.*

The Penalty Fares control office would not have any details if you were not given a notice at the time and would not know anything about a report made for prosecution.

Got this notice after 8 months to pay a court fine.

The rail company will have proved to the satisfaction of the Court that this had been sent to you and a Certificate of Service will be on the Court file confirming this.

I think the officer took me personal when I challenged him that I'll only pay a penalty fare and not done anything intentionally wrong

That decision is not yours to make. If an inspector has gathered evidence of an offence it is up to the inspector to make a report. An inspector is not forced to issue a Penalty Fare Notice and can report an offence for prosecution if evidence exists to support the allegation

as *I have a correct oyster but could not show at the time of inspection

To be accepted as valid the ticket must be shown at the time of travel

and will prove that I'm always pay a right fare that can be evidence from my bank statements as far as 1 year old shows that every week I purchased a zone 1 travel card

The receipt for a fare does not mean that an offence has not been committed. The strict liability requirement of the Byelaw is to show a valid ticket.

Thank you very much for detailed response.

My wife's oyster card was unregistered adult oyster with out any photograph and discounts like mine so there wasn't any difference between our cards this was the root cause of confusion.

I came to this forum to get help to solicit my case because I do not know railway law and I know I made a mistake not an offence but it does not matter what i think no one has suggested any thing how I can appeal after all we are humans we all make mistakes but after reading all this I am really disappointed that there is no place for innocent people in law of you don't have ticket then you committed an offence irrespective of the situation and circumstances.

Thanks again for your time and patience to go through my posts.

Thank you very much for detailed response.

 

My wife's oyster card was unregistered adult oyster with out any photograph and discounts like mine so there wasn't any difference between our cards this was the root cause of confusion.

If both cards were unregistered Pay-As-You-Go Oysters with credit and you had touched-in before travelling there would be no need to report, so it seems that there must have been something more to this.

Anyways I came to this forum to get help to solicit my case because I do not know railway law and I know I *made a mistake not an offence but it does not matter what i think no one has suggested any thing how I can appeal *after all we are humans we all make mistakes but after reading all this I am really disappointed that there is no place for innocent people in law of you don't have ticket then you committed an offence irrespective of the situation *and circumstances.*

The time for 'appeal' to the rail company was when the first letter was sent out.

If you wish to appeal the decision of the Magistrates to convict, you will have to apply to the Crown Court for leave to appeal.

If you are saying that you did not receive the Summons, you need to make the Statutory Declaration on oath (or affirmation) to that effect as we have said before. The rail company will then be free to start the prosecution again and you will be able to plead your case.

Hi

Have been to the court and they asked me if am pleading guilty or not, I pleaded not guilty and explained the situation to the magistrate.

They gave me further date in October for a full hearing and trail and asked to come with any witness.

Can you please advice what will happen next?

Thanks

This should help you, I wrote an explanation of a trial process some time back

Go to this link:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?313909-What-happens-when-you-get-to-court-by-Old-CodJA

Hi, unfortunately I dont have any words of wisdom at all for you but could find myself in a similar situation I was wondering what form of ID you gave them who had stopped you in the first place .. ?

Please consider legal advice before going to court. I have a feeling this may end very badly for you.

Strict Liability Byelaw Offences have very, very little defence. The Judge(s) cannot consider any mitigating circumstances or past behaviour when finding you guilty/not guilty. Mitigation only affects the sentence.

If the prosecutor says to you "Were you able to present a valid ticket or authority to an authorised member of staff?"

You can only really reply "No."

Case proved...

I am really worried got struck in between how can I accept as guilty when I've not done any thing intentionally.

Can I ask Tfl for out of court settlement?

Any body have any experience with this please help.

I've given my driving license

It seems that the bit you are struggling with is that you must forget about what you think your intention was

If you were reported for breach of Byelaw and were charged with "failing to show" a valid ticket, then that is exactly what you did. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what you intended to do, it's what you did or did not do that matters in this case.

You did not show a ticket and the Byelaw says you must show a ticket, so the offence is complete.

Only if you were charged with "intent to avoid a fare" would there be a chance to have this revisited in my view.

Thanks OC,

They have not charged me for Byelaw offence the hearing letter says without having previously paid your fare of £4.00 and an intent to avoid payment thereof contrary to section 5 (3)a of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

I wasn't attempting to evade the fare

and I had previously purchased a travel card on oyster which was valid for zones I was traveling for the journey, i just wasn't aware i didn't have it on my person

I don't really accept the offence,

i believe i should have been issued a penalty fare but it's officers decision final and binding.

I accept its my mistake not checking the oysters before journey but I believe Tfl should have been given me the opportunity to appeal or resolve the situation outside court.

Any advise?

Ouch! Section 5(3a) is far more serious than a Byelaw breach, which I initially believed would be charged. That said, TfL are very hardline with Oyster misuse.

My advice is that you should contact a solicitor if you believe you are not guilty. Very, very few cases are won by a defendant. I've never actually experienced somebody being found not guilty, (except due to paperwork/procedural issues).

Have you got copies of the MG11 statement(s) from the Inspector/Staff who stopped you? Could you let us know what you actually said to the Inspector?

A Penalty Fare is only appropriate where:

1) The employee does not suspect any deliberate fare evasion;

2) The customer has sufficient funds/money to pay for their journey taken, or attempted to take;

3) The customer is co-operative.

You must remember that everybody who is issued a Penalty Fare could equally have been found guilty of breaching Byelaw 17/18 by a court.

I hope my reply isn't too late.

I am basing my advice on the following propositions I understood from OP:

1) He has been stopped in an london underground station with his wife's oyster card on which is a standard season ticket

2) He has a valid season ticket of his own on a card that is registered under his name at the time of the incident, but has taken his wife's card by mistake

3) Since being stopped by the inspector, he moved address and unknowingly called the wrong department in TFL about the change of details and this was apparently never passed on.

4) The letters from the prosecutions office was subsequently sent to the old address and due to the lack of correspondence, the prosecutor assumed the worst, pressed ahead of the prosecution and the court convicted him of fare evasion in his absence.

5) The OP then found this out and has since made statuary declaration and the pleaded not guilty and the case is to be retried.

In brief, I think the OP has a reasonable chance to successfully defend him-self at the court, AND before the court commences the OP has a very good chance to reach an out-of-court settlement with TFL.

Okay, first of all, some disclaimer. I do not work in the industry as some of the previous contributors do. Old-CodJA and firstclassx are I understand rail revenue protection prosecutors, and hence are undeniably experts in this field. However, since my family's own unfortunate acquaintance with the TFL prosecutions department (largely due to my stupidity of not reading the terms and conditions carefully) I have learned a great deal on this issue, so would like to share a little bit of my experiences and thoughts on this. You can take this as an advice from the other side of the fence.

In regard to the offence OP was charged with: section 5(3a) fare evasion. It does not surprise me at all that they have gone with this charge. This is because a) the london underground is a closed ticketing area, and hence the often quoted railway bylaw does not apply, in place of the bylaw is the 80 pounds penalty charge (which the inspector chose not to give); b) the inspector reported OP of intentionally using someone elses season-ticket (a serious offence in the eyes of TFL), and since OP had no chance of explaining the situation to the prosecutors, it is only natural the prosecutor went ahead with 5(3a). This is a criminal offence, and one will get a full criminal record if convicted, so it is in one's absolute interest to treat this very very seriously.

Under the normal circumstances I doubt the OP would even reach the court summons stage, if he had received the initial letter from the prosecutors, and then replied with his explanation backed up with evidences of his own valid travel card or the receipt for it. I think any reasonable prosecutor would have given him a written warning and possibly asked him to pay a reasonable amount of administration cost.

To successfully prosecute someone for fare evasion, the prosecution would need to prove without reasonable doubt that OP had intention to avoid paying the correct amount of fare for the journey. If the OP can provide clear evidence that he had in fact purchased the correct ticket for the journey, but had instead taken another identical looking ticket, then any reasonable person would find it difficult to see his motivation (and thus intent) for such act, and it is much more likely that he had taken the wrong ticket by mistake. The prosecutor will have known this and thus wouldn't have pressed ahead with the charge.

So here is my suggested course of action the OP should take:

Contact the prosecution office who issued the original court summons, explain the whole thing politely in writing, and ask them to consider out-of-court settlement. If they refuse, or if the administration costs asked for settlement are too high for your liking, then consider seek some legal advice. I believe most of the solicitors will give 30 minutes of free consultation, and a good solicitor can usually smell if he has a case with reasonable winning chance on his hand. Gather as much paper evidences in support of your case as possible in the mean time. I personally think you have a good chance in court.

As an aside:

Just to explain to Old-CodJA about the photo-card (or photo-less-ness of it), yes indeed, one is allowed to purchase a monthly season ticket on a standard photo-less oyster card as long as the card is registered under someone's name. The registration however is electronic and there is no possible way of distinguishing which card is which from physical appearance---unless of course one has a gifted memory and can remember that 20-odd digit card serial number with ease. This is the reason I have since our own incident refused to purchase any season ticket longer than a week on an oyster, as I see it as a potential "death" trap, quite literally given we have already been warned once.