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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Caught shoplifting in Waitrose


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Hi,

last week I went to Waitrose,

bought some shopping and did not scan a packet of sushi,

 

when I exit one guy in civil clothes came after me and took me back,

I admitted that I did not pay and I felt so embarrassed...

 

they took my details, name, address and date of birth and banned me from Waitrose or John Lewis for life....

and they said I should expect a fine in the post anytime.

 

I'm really scared as in the letter says I should seek legal advice asap.

 

Also the fact that I can't enter John Lewis ever again make me so upset.

 

I did before took a banana or a croissant without paying but never other stuff.

 

Definitely not ever gonna do this thing again!!!

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Hi and welcome CAG.

 

Firstly, I'm glad you state you will never do this again. That is the point of security. The short sharp shock. Regarding being banned. Chances are they have forgotten you once the paperwork is done. Did they take your picture?

 

I don't see a problem going into a John Lewis as they don't have the time to scan every face that comes in. I would stay away from that particular Waitrose for about 6 months.

 

Regarding this 'Fine'. It is nothing of the sort. It is an invoice which can only be enforced via the county courts and for such a small cost item, it isn't worth bothering with the claim. I assume it will be RLP that chases you. Ignore them totally. They can do nothing to you--ever. More info when needed will be provided.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Thank you for your reply.

It was really stupid and I'm so embarrassed...

I don't even know what I was thinking about doing that.

..but definitely learned from it and won't ever be doing that.

 

They did not take a picture but I think they can take from cctv ,

I don't know... I'm really scared to go in any Waitrose now.

They said if I want the ban lifted,

I need to call head office.

 

Also about the fine,

I said I will pay anything,

I just want it over and done and don't want any troubles again. ��

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It isn't a fine!! They don't have the authority to issue fines.

 

There are two different companies that do civil recovery. RLP and DWF. Chances are it will be RLP.

 

By paying this invoice, you will be encouraging these bottom feeders to do more. While I cannot 'TELL' you what to do, my advice would always be to ignore them.

 

If Waitrose took action through the county court, all they could claim for is the cost of the items stolen IF they didn't get them back or were unsuitable for reselling. If the goods were good enough to go back on the shelves then they have lost nothing. The letters will state security costs. They cannot do this as security costs are already factored into the prices paid at the till. You will not get a criminal record over this.

 

Let's assume that court action is taken. Security costs-Nil Cost of lost product -No idea. Court fee-£25. Solicitor costs - £50 so taking into account the cost of the food. The judgement will be less than £100 whereas the letters will demand sums between £150 and £200. Pay the judgement immediately and it will be as if no court action was undertaken.

 

Now, since 2012 when a retailer tried court action against two teenage girls, they lost-badly and since that time, no court cases were taken.

 

My advice will always be ignore and if you get a letter, come back here and we can go through them in fine detail.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Thank you again for your response.

 

The security in Waitrose took the food back and gave me the rest of my shopping and they said I will get a letter and I will have to pay for the food and some extra ( they said "u will pay a fine")

 

I was surprised as well why I will I have to pay for the food when they took it back?!

 

I'm happy to ignore the letter as you suggested.

 

If I will receive one I will come back for help.

 

Thank you.

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really surprised they used the word fine, only the courts or a police officer can fine anyone.

 

you wont have any issue in john lewis

 

just stay clear of that waitrose store for a few months.

 

anything you get in the post YOU IGNORE IT TOTALLY.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you. Maybe I made a mistake, as I was quite scared and I didn't know what they gonna do but I'm sure they said I will have to pay for the food I tried to take and I will get a fine for shoplifting.

Hope I will not receive anything

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anything you get in the post YOU IGNORE IT TOTALLY.

 

dx

 

Unless it is a court claim form - never ignore those..... (a court claim likely won't happen, but if it did come back here for advice on how it can be defended).

 

To reiterate the advice:

1) They didn't involve the police, so that is unlikely to happen now. The theft was a crime, but likely now anything that follows is a civil mater.

2) It isn't a fine. If they do try to claim it is a civil, not criminal claim.

3) They are entitled to ban you. Their stores are private property, and if you enter them, you do so as a trespasser until any ban is lifted. If you want to try and appeal any ban / or enter as a trespasser, it is a matter for you to decide when and if.

4) Stop stealing. Even if it is low value items, you take the chance of being arrested and prosecuted, especially for repeated offences or higher value items.

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Hi and welcome CAG.

 

 

I don't see a problem going into a John Lewis as they don't have the time to scan every face that comes in. I would stay away from that particular Waitrose for about 6 months.

 

John Lewis / Waitrose were the other retailer trialing facial recognition using the neoface platform from nec.

 

I don’t know if they have rolled it out yet to all stores but it’s worth keeping out permanently from their stores if you don’t want a guard to start chucking you out, or if you irritate them enough, an injunction.

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I wouldn't bother.

 

all you are doing is extending the period they will remember about you.

 

WHY is it SO important you shop in THAT exact Waitrose store?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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just go do it

they wont be knowing who you are

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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As long as you dont look shifty or you look nervous, theyll have no clue. In any case, id give it a week or so befor eyou go there.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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yea no dark glasses and false beards.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi! I received a "Letter before claim" of £149.50.

What should I do?!

 

It says "your conduct gives our client the right to pursue a civil claim for damages agains you in the Country Court as this caused significant disruption to our clients business at those premises. Our client has sustained losses as a result of your wrongful actions which include the value of the goods...

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Who is it from? RLP? DWF?

 

Doesn't really matter as you should ignore it. They can do nothing to you (except write more letters) Only waitrose are able to instigate court action and they won't bother as it isn't worth their while doing so.

 

Letter Before Claim??? Very misleading. Claim? does that mean court claim? No. they aren't allowed to.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Can you post up a copy of the latter in PDF format, and retract any personal info.

 

Silverfox is correct in you can just ignore it. But it would be good to see the exact context.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Can you post up a copy of the latter in PDF format, and retract any personal info.

 

Silverfox is correct in you can just ignore it. But it would be good to see the exact context.

 

Absolutely.

I would engage with Waitrose or their solicitor if it actually named them as the party writing (which is unlikely).

RLP / DWF or their solicitors.... Ignore (or the single “I deny any liability to DWF / RLP)

 

It’d be interesting to see exactly how it was phrased in terms of “our client”, and if they were being vague or precise as to who the client is and in what manner they are acting ......

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RLP/DWF cant issue a court claim.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Sorry ... just saw the reply! I Got another rpl letter today ..

 

We note that We have received no response to our letter of 10 November 2017. If you have already responded, it may be our corespondence has crossed, please make contact on 01159706231 to check if this is the case.

 

As well as being a victim of crime, our client has the right to bring civil claim against you for damages. You have not sought to deny your actions, or offer any explanation. Our client appreciates there are many reasons why incidents of this nature occur, but wishes you to understand the impact of your actions and accept responsibility for them.

 

Before taking any further steps in this claim, our client invites you to advise us if there are any circumstances witch you would like to be taken into account.

 

Whilst there is no legal obligation to consider mitigating circumstances in civil proceedings, our client adheres to core principles originally agreed with ACPO (the association of chief police officers) and abides by its own ethical codes. This ensures a degree of protection to those who may be considered vulnerable, or those in long term severe financial hardship.

 

If you consider this may apply to you, it is important that you notify us of your circumstances, so that they can be given due consideration and the appropriate action taken on your case. Please be assured that our staff are professional and non-judgmental and will deal with any communication sensitively and with sympathetically, and with complete discretion. Any information you provid will be used only for the purposes of determining whether to proceed with the claim , and will be treated in strict accordance with the data Protection act 1998.

 

We summarise the options open to you :

 

Submit a written defence, with full account of your version of events

Settle the claim, with or without admission, by paying the amount stated £149.50

If you wish to settle the claim, but cannot do so within 14 days, contact us to discuss payment options which include instalments and deferred periods, dependent upon circumstances

Negotiate an alternative settlement by containing our Collection Department on 01159706231

Advise us of any other relevant circumstances you wish to be taken into account

 

We require a response or payment from you within 14 days of the date of this letter, in order to prevent further action being taken. Our contact information is detailed overleaf.

 

This is the letter!

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just keep ignoring. Youll get a couple of these over 6 months or so then theyll try and pass it to a dca. That dca will send you a couple letters then youll hear nothing from them.

 

Remember, that letter is the same they send to pretty much everyone.

 

Oh, and further action means the whole dca thing. Ignore and move on with your life .

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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