@vodafoneuk Vodafone - Where Do I Stand With The Law?

[DebtDissolver]

Vodafone mis-sold me contracts on my account and have refused to cancel them as requested. This has been going on since June last year, even the Ombudsman didn't seem to see where I was coming from legally, but agreed Vodafone had made errors in handling my account and complaint and there was a shortfall in service. The Ombudsman also told me about an invalid charge on the account (which Vodafone have not admitted to me) and a voicemail I was apparently left regarding a credit to the account they were making, but neither has appeared and reduced the balance I'm being asked to pay.

If a company don't tell you they are changing their contracts, but mislead them on the phone and make them believe their payments won't change, without mentioning increases in charges and a new 24 month contract, is that not illegal? I've quoted the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Practises as I believe they've carried out an unfair practise: Misleading practices – a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes, or is likely to cause, the average consumer to take a different transactional decision specifically; general misleading information, creating confusion with competitors’ products or failing to honour commitments made in a code of conduct.

 

They never sent me the promised email detailing the upcoming changes I should expect, which I believe is in violation of the Consumer Contracts Regulations. I also believe they broke their terms and conditions by not correctly informing me of the changes that would take place. Breaking any of these regulations/terms would give me the right to request the contracts be cancelled without penalties. I contacted Vodafone 3 times before I received a response, from June to November. Nick Jefferys was no use and ignored my legal points when I emailed him. I requested a copy of the call that took place in June but Vodafone ignored my requests, which resulted in a complaint to the ICO, who agreed that Vodafone had breached it.

 

Does anyone have knowledge of where I stand legally please? My head's a mess over it all now, any help is greatly appreciated.

[Bazooka Boo]

Can you tell us what the problem is exactly please?

 

Are you still using Voda?

 

How far are you into their lethargic complaints process?

[fkofilee]

Need more info im afraid before we can advise, however I am also battling Vodafone themselves.

Keep an eye around here, more interesting developments will be coming.

[DebtDissolver]

Thanks for the replies, Vodafone initially rang to inform me that some call prices were going up, but they actually changed 2 mobile contracts without my permission (which I only discovered when my bill came in at the end of the month). They increased the bills (I had 2 mobiles and a tablet with them) for the 2 phones by approx £15 per month and renewed one of them giving me a 2 year contract I didn't ask for. When I wrote to them to complain I got no response, so wrote again the following month. I complained to the Ombudsman, who said Vodafone had tried to call me once to sort it out in the July but wherever that voicemail is, I never got it.

 

I emailed the CEO in November (attempt no 3 to get a response), I'd been asking to cancel the contracts but got offered an £80 reduction on my bill and a return to the original contracts, which I didn't want and felt the law agreed with me. This response was followed by a bill for over £500 2 days later and 6 days later came my final notice to pay. I have trouble just firing off a letter or email in response, my wife helps a lot but it takes us awhile to get these things written properly.

 

The Ombudsman concluded last week that Vodafone were corrrect in offering a reduction and return to original contracts. Vodafone sent a payment reminder 3 weeks ago for over £500. I'm really sorry if this isn't very clear, I've typed a timeline of events but its 4 pages long! I did contact Vodafone again in January, I didn't get anything through the post, but emails to my account that I don't check - they stopped using the one we'd been communicating on in November. They still refused to cancel the contracts, not one person seems to have looked at my questions regarding my position with the law on this, they're all adamant I still have to pay.

 

I've been unable to work since the end of June and had surgery in March, income is straight out again on the children, the bills, the shopping. My wife and I now use PAYG sims which we've spent about £30 on since January and there's no way we could afford to pay Vodafone over £500, even in installments. Some of these charges they've even admitted have been wrongly applied but they haven't removed them! I'm sick of them completely and have read of so many other stories where their incompetence has caused issues for others.

 

If I'm wrong and legally have to pay I will do my very best but I won't pay while I believe I don't have to.

[silverfox1961]

Hi

As I see it, when an error is made the offending party should put you back into the position had the error not occurred so IF the offer from VF does that, that is all they are required to do.

 

As you rejected the initial offer from VF, the contract was therefore cancelled and you would be required to pay the remainder of the contract. That's my opinion out of the way.

 

On to the £500 bill. It is highly likely they have charged you the full monthly amounts up to the end of the contract. What they should be doing is reducing the line rental aspect for the services not supplied under the contract.

There will also be admin fees included in that figure. I have no idea if they have changed recently but they did charge 15% or £100 whichever was the lowest. This is not allowed. Only actual costs are recoverable, not a made up figure.

 

As you will not be able to pay this off, expect your credit file to be screwed by VF and as they don't have a debt collection arm, they will farm it out to a debt collector. This is when you can argue again about the early termination fees and the admin fees. See how quick it gets passed back to VF

[DebtDissolver]

Silverfox thank you for the clarification, obviously not the best news but the truth which I asked for. I'm not sure what to class as the initial offer, as firstly Vodafone apparently did this in a voicemail, although it wasn't actually actioned. The following offer was made 22 November, which stated they had put my account back to how it should have been, then the bill came in at over £500 2 days later. I then got a final notice dated 30 November for the £232. I was incredibly confused and doped up on tramadol (for the herniated disc I was awaiting surgery for) and my wife found it so stressful that she couldn't deal with it well, but we responded in January.

So I'm totally wrong with all the info I've gotten about mis-selling and my right to cancel without penalty then? Gutted. Thanks again

[Bazooka Boo]

Wait a minute wait a minute!

 

When you complained to them, did they put your account back to how it was originally?

 

IF they did so, then where have the magicked up this £500??

 

Have you sent them a SAR (£10) ?

[DebtDissolver]

No they didn't, their promises came to nothing.The £500 odd is: EFTs £286.58 (£164.61 for a contract out of commitment) & monthly fees £232.34 (at the new rate). I've considered a SAR and will send one ASAP if it'll be of any use.

[Bazooka Boo]

No they didn't, their promises came to nothing.The £500 odd is: EFTs £286.58 (£164.61 for a contract out of commitment) & monthly fees £232.34 (at the new rate). I've considered a SAR and will send one ASAP if it'll be of any use.

 

Do you have that 'promise' in writing from them?

 

What is EFT's?

 

And how is a phone contract £232.34 a month??

[DebtDissolver]

I have one letter that states they had already refunded £80+ (they hadn't though), which Vodafone sent me. They said this brought the line rental back to the original agreement, and that once I'd paid £150 I'd be receonnected. 2 days after this letter they sent a bill for £518.92.

The rest is what they've told the Ombudsman so I have it in b&w from them and not Vodafone ...

 

Sorry, I meant ETFs, early termination fees, and the £232.34 is for a period of 4 months line rental on the increased charges. That total should have been £150, but was never sorted despite Nick Jeffereys promises stating the opposite.

[Bazooka Boo]

IMO I would go back to the ombudsman and tell them that the issue is still unresolved.

[silverfox1961]

I would be demanding a break down of all the amounts in a bill. From everything you have mentioned, they are now in breach as they haven't refunded the £80 to bring your account back to th level of the original contract. VF will never admit this of course.

If you haven't checked your credit file, do so. As the account is now terminated, VF may have placed a default (something they are very quick to do) If they have, you can add this to your complaint. Absolutely send a SAR. Expect it to be confusing.

The Ombudsman doen't use the laws as such, only what is fair and from what you have said so far, VF are not being fair. I would go to the Ofcom website and do a search for Early Termination Fees

[DebtDissolver]

Thank you both so much for the replies! I've written my SAR request and will have payment to send via recorded delivery on Thursday. Credit report has been at the back of my mind and I'm positive it's messy, I'll start on that next.

 

I think what didn't help my case with the Ombudsman was the fact that I hadn't fully realised the extent to which Vodafone had lied etc. and this wasn't something I was able to explain at the time - I mean, an email which details an £80 credit which had apparently already been applied was followed 2 days later by a huge bill, with no sign of said refund, and the accounts had already been cut off at that point (although I've never been able to check that bill as it's generated online and my access was cut off before the bill was generated). The Ombudsman therefore saw the £80 credit as reasonable. It's been far from easy to work this all out myself, especially when discovering that Vodafone had started emailing another address (the one on file, my bad for not updating them!) and used the emails to 'prove' they had acted reasonably, without response from me.

 

I guess if I can put together evidence of what the Ombudsman wants - a fundamental flaw in their beliefs in order for them to look at it again, I may do this. I'll have another read through the timeline of events and see how strog a case I culd put together. To be honest I'm so tired of it all, I have other important matters that need my attention and there just aren't enough hours in the day nor enough energy in me to keep on top of everything. I'm despreate to see this resolved.

 

Thanks again, your honest opinions and helpful comments are very appreciated.

[DebtDissolver]

Well Vodafone have supplied me with details as requested in my SAR, but have stated that they don't need to provide me with a copy of my contract - is that true?

I've read through everything they've sent and I can see that from the beginning my complaint was handled as if I'd simply changed my mind about the contract. Their notes state that the contracts were returned to their original plans and I'd be given a refund on my overpayment as a goodwill gesture. None of this happened.

I'm prepared to involve Ofcom (who were already aware of my complaint) as I've had enough of this trouble and realy need to be able to move on. I guess I'll have to write a detailed letter pointing to the evidence showing VFs errors and get it sent to VF/Ofcom, but I'm also considering writing to one of the newspaper columnists who assist people in these matters, does anyone think this is worth a shot? I'm not on about a big story and payout, just someone to step in and get VF to put right their mistakes.

TIA!

[Bazooka Boo]

It depends on what you demanded in your SAR, which SAR template did you use??

 

AFAIK, a SAR 'should' contain EVERYTHING they have with your name on it or pertaining to you.

 

If they are withholding something, then dependent on the SAR you sent, it may be worth firing off a warning that they have failed to comply with your SAR, and they have a further seven days in which to supply ALL of the information you requested, or you will report them to the ICO to investigate.

[DebtDissolver]

Thanks Bazooka Boo,

 

I sent this to Vodafone:

'Please supply the information about me I am entitled to under the Data Protection Act 1998 relating to:

 

• Full copies of all documents relating to contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same dated within the last 2 years;
  
• Any information held regarding the specific tariffs that applied to my account for the previous 8 years, or as far back as records go if they do not go back 8 years;
  
• A complete list of all transactions relating to my account with your organisation within the last 2 years;
  
• Copies of the terms and conditions that applied to the account and any changes made to those terms; when these changes were made, and why; within the last 2 years;
  
• Copies of all documents which include any of my personal/account information including copies of any invoices, letters or computer records, account notes or emails containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information within the last 2 years;
  
• Full copies of any phone calls made by Vodafone to myself or made by myself to Vodafone (where kept) on either xxxxxxxxxxx/ xxxxxxxxxx/ xxxxxxxxxxx; or notes pertaining to any phone calls within the last 2 years;
  
• Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to me, within the last 2 years;
  
• Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates, declarations or references confirming details of destruction dated within the last 2 years.
  
• Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations;
  
• Copies of statements (between August 2016 & now) held in account number xxxxxxxxx;
  
• An explanation of any technical or complicated terms;
  
• A description of the information, the purposes for processing the information and who the organisation is sharing the information with; and
  
• The logic involved in any automated decisions.
  

 

 

 

I request that you provide all the information requested above, even though you may consider that it falls outside Data Protection, via post and not email

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £10, payable to Vodafone Limited, to cover your fee, along with a copy of my drivers licence, to prove my identity and that I am entitled to access the information requested.

If you need any more information from me, please let me know as soon as possible.

It may be helpful for you to know that a request for information under the Data Protection Act 1998 should be responded to within 40 days.

If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer or person responsible for data protection at Vodafone. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you and can be contacted on 0303 123 1113 or at ico.org.uk

Yours faithfully ......'

 

 

Their response is "Please be advised that although Vodafone Limited does retain copies of its customers contracts, they are held in secure storage locations and are not filed or organised in such a way that specific information relating to a particular individual (or a copy of a particular individual's contract) is readily accessible. For this reason customer contracts are not classed as personal data as defined in the Data Protection Act 1998 and have not been provided as part of our response to your request."

Aaargh! I'm honestly so baffled by this!

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[Bazooka Boo]

Well, I've not heard of this get out clause before??

 

I'd be mindful of reporting them to the ICO unless others can shed any other light on this particular case??