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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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Derby Council Issued Resident Permit Mistakenly Then Resind it without Notice


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Hi first time poster after advice and assurance !

 

 

My daughter is a student in Derby and moved into a rented city centre flat in July 2016.

There are no parking spaces allocated to the flats but the roads around the area state they are 'pay at machine' or 'permit holders'.

 

 

She visited the local authority with her tenancy agreement and proof of car ownership and was issued a residents permit, which she was charged for, valid until July 2017.

 

 

She has parked regularly in these streets without problems

 

 

19th Jan 2017 when she received a PCN.

She then received a letter dated 20th Jan stating that her flats were not included in the permit area and that the Permit was issued by mistake.

 

 

She queried this with the Authority and was told on 9th Feb 2017 that her permit was no longer valid and she would be liable for any further PCNs ( they have cancelled the one dated 19th Jan ).

 

 

However to find an alternative private parking space took time

- she eventually secured one on 12th March 2017,

 

 

in the meantime she received a further four PCNs which we contested and they have refused to cancel.

 

My argument is that they issued the permit

- albeit mistakenly

- and should either let the permit run to expiry or at least cancel it with sufficient notice to allow suitable alternative arrangements to be made.

 

 

Our next step is to go to trafficpenaltytribunal.gov

 

 

any help or advice would be gratefully received !

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To be honest I don't think you have a good case.

 

It would seem fair for the council to honour the permit, but in all likelihood they would not be able to - there will be legal definitions on how the permit scheme is supposed to be run and staff in the office can't override them. It sounds like they did the correct thing in advising that the permit was being withdrawn and they did cancel the prior PCN.

 

From there your daughter woud have continued to park in the permit bays knowing she did not hold a valid permit. There's presumably nothing faulty with the PCNs, so they would stand.

 

Costs nothing to go to the adjudicator. Is your only grounds of appeal that you needed time to find another parking space? It's not a strong hand.

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where the outstanding tickets issued before they notified her of the cancellation of the permit?

 

parking is all about contract law so there was offer and acceptance of a contract involving a parking permit. the council then found out that she is not eligible for one in the terms of the schemes so the contract and it was then annulled.

 

Until this has been notified there is an expectation of performance of the contract so they cant just say it was an error and you now have to pay some backdated fines.

 

However it appears as though the PCN's were issued after she was notified that the contract didnt exist so there can be no performance to that contract by one party ( council) even if your daughter continued to show the permit. However, they should have given her the money back she paid for the permit as they cannot keep their side of the bargain.

 

No they shouldnt have allowed her to continue to use it and they gave notice-albeit 1 day. If someone knows something is wrong why would they expect a different result each time they did it

Edited by honeybee13
Paras.
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