Another CRS/X4L issue... this time with a response from X4L

[WL35]

Hi All,

 

Like many others on this forum, I've been having a lot of trouble with Harlands/CRS/X4L and wish for it to stop. I've been putting off posting here for a while and simply been following the advice given to everyone else by ignoring the threats from CRS and Harlands and replying in writing.

 

I signed up for a 12-month contract on the 3rd November 2015, and after 12 months decided to cancel my direct debit on the 22nd November 2016 after fulfilling my 12-month obligation. Initially I ignored the letters from Harlands demanding payment, however after they threatened to pass my 'debt' of £171 onto CRS, I decided to reply with a letter to them explaining that I'd fulfilled my 12-month obligation but offered to pay the £9.99 to cover the cancellation period which I had missed, and to stop further demands otherwise they'd be reported to TS etc, etc.

 

In the meantime, my 'debt' was passed onto CRS, and Harlands replied with a letter simply stating that they could not cancel the agreement as they were simply the direct debit company acting on their behalf and to get in touch with X4L directly.

 

So I did just that, basically sending the same letter to X4L head offices, offering to pay the £9.99 but nothing more, and again to stop CRS/Harlands contacting my otherwise I'd report them to TS and the CMA.

 

However, on Tuesday I received this response via email:

 

Good morning,

 

Thank you for your letter.

 

Unfortunately by cancelling your direct debit it is a breach of the

terms and conditions of the membership, you were sent a welcome email

when you had first joined, on these it explains that your membership

will roll onto a 1 month rolling contract once your 12 month contract

expires.

 

The correct process to cancel your membership is by submitting our

online cancellation request form, there is a 30 day notice from when

you submit this, leaving a final payment to be made.

 

Because you have not called up to pay your arrears within three

months, your membership has fallen with CRS.

 

Please contact CRS on 01444449165 to arrange a payment plan.

 

--

Healthy Regards

 

Leigha

 

Head of Customer Enquiries

 

Head Office

 

Head Office

Xercise 4 Less

Unit 1, Kirkstall Industrial Estate

Kirkstall Road

Leeds

LS4 2AZ

 

 

 

--

Healthy Regards

 

Esther

 

Head of Customer Enquiries

 

Head Office

 

Head Office

Xercise 4 Less

Unit 1, Kirkstall Industrial Estate

Kirkstall Road

Leeds

LS4 2AZ

 

I'm a bit confused by all of this as they just seem to be passing the buck onto one another, and I'm a bit confused as to what steps I should take next, as CRS have since begun Texting me and sending me Emails demanding I ring them. Anything I should say to X4L in response to this? Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

Many thanks

Edited March 9, 2017 by slick132
Removed identifiers

[slick132]

Hi there and welcome to CAG

 

I've removed identifiers from your post. Anonymity online is a good idea !

 

You should have given X4Less or Harlands 30 days notice before cancelling the DD so you paid a final fee as required.

 

See other threads and you'll find a letter you can use to offer Harlands a final fee but no admin charges, offer valid for 14 days. Use this as suggested getting proof of postage.

 

Harlands are too greedy to accept your offer that you will then withdraw and ignore them.

 

Don't bother contacting X4Less until you've made this offer to Harlands.

 

[WL35]

Hi Slick,

 

Thanks for the response, I had already sent such a letter to Harlands on the 18th Jan with proof of postage, here it is below and their response:

 

Dear Sir or Madam:

 

I am writing with regards to my membership at your ‘Xercize4Less’ Gym, St. Helens branch. This membership was agreed to on the 3rd November 2015 for a minimum12-month period, following a initial payment of £29.99 on 17th November, and £9.99 on the 3rd of each month following this for a total of 12 payments.

 

After 12 months and 19 days, I cancelled my direct debit to Xercise4Less on the 22nd November 2016, having fulfilled my 12 months obligation as agreed to in the membership contract, which served as adequate notice of my intention to cancel.

 

However, it has now come to my attention that 30 days notice should have been served before doing so, and therefore I am offering to pay one month’s membership of £9.99 to you to cover the notice period. I will not pay you any administration or cancellations fees – these penalties are unlawful and unenforceable.

 

If you reply and confirm in writing that you accept this offer of the final settlement that is owed, I will pay you promptly and in full. However, if you fail to accept my offer within 14 days of this letter, or continue to demand payment, I will pay you nothing and my offer will be withdrawn. Further threats will result in a complaint to the OFT.

 

Thier response:

 

Further to your recent letter to our offices,

 

We can confirm that you joined an Xersise 4 Less agreement online on the 3rd November 2015 for 12 months at £9.99. Cancelling your direct debit does not cancel your agreement.

 

Harlands can confirm that we cannot cancel the agreement as all cancellation go directly through Xercise 4 Less online cancellation form that gets sent to thier head offices, no cancellation has been recieved from Xercise 4 Less head office therefore we havent and cannot cancel the agreement. We need this confirmation as we are merely the Direct Debit company on their behalf.

 

Please follow the link below and formward on what you have sent to us and your wish to cancel:

 

(Link to cancellation form)

 

We will await their reply

 

Instead of doing that I thought it'd be best to write to their head office directly with signed for postage, here is what I sent them:

 

Dear Sir or Madam:

 

I am writing with regards to my membership at your ‘Xercize4Less’ Gym, St. Helens branch. This membership was agreed to on the 3rd November 2015 for a minimum 12-month period, following an initial payment of £29.99 on 17th November, and £9.99 on the 3rd of each month following this for a total of 12 payments.

 

After 12 months and 19 days, I cancelled my direct debit to Xercise4Less on the 22nd November 2016, having fulfilled my 12 months obligation as agreed to in the membership contract, which served as adequate notice of my intention to cancel.

 

However, it has since come to my attention that 30 days notice should have been served before doing so, and therefore I offered, via my letter to Harlands dated 18th Jan 2017, to pay the £9.99 30 days cancellation fee which was ignored. However I will make one final offer to pay this £9.99 fee and nothing more, which will be valid for 14 days as of the date of the letter.

 

Subsequently, Harland’s, and now CRS, continue to harass me and continue to attempt to make me pay their fees totaling £171.47 – which is unlawful and unenforceable. Further harassment from them will result in a complaint to both Trading Standards and The CMA about Xersize4Less’ use of aggressive collection tactics.

[slick132]

Hi WL,

 

Sorry I didn't see before that you'd already offered to pay Harlands the 1 month's fee for the cancellation period. You've done it all right so far.

 

We maintain that cancellation of a DD is notice to Harlands of intention to cancel as per the High Court ruling against AMSL back in 2011.

 

We further maintain that the same case (OFT v AMSL) confirmed your right to give notice in various ways to the gym or their agent, in your case Harlands.

 

Please confirm the date you sent the last letter to X4Less.

 

[WL35]

Hi Slick,

 

No worries it's easily missed!

 

I sent that last letter to X4Less on the 26th Feb, and received their response on 7th March.

 

Good to know i've been doing the right thing so far!

 

[slick132]

Hi WL,

 

Please write a further letter to X4Less Head Office.

 

I refer to your letter of xxth March.

 

I acknowledged to Harlands that I should have given a month's notice and offered to pay them the £9.99 I owed but they've refused this and continue to harass me for far greater amounts.

 

Unless you tell Harlands to cease all further demands, I will raise formal complaints to Trading Standards and The CMA about Harlands/CRS harassment and about Xercise4Less being happy with this harassment carried out on your behalf by your agents.

 

I will also raise my case on all available Social Media so others know how you allow your customers to be treated.

 

If they fail to do what you want, then formal complaints and Social Media exposure is the way to go.

 

[WL35]

Thanks so much for the advice, I'll send that tomorrow.

 

Should I mention the OFT v AMSL thing as well as a response to their opinion that I haven't cancelled my membership or not?

 

I'll post any further developments here too.

 

[slick132]

Hi WL,

 

No, just keep to the draft I suggested above. Going into any further detail is not necessary or likely to change anything in your favour.

 

Quite often, less is more !

 

[WL35]

Hi,

 

So just a quick update, I didn't get around to sending the letter you suggested until Thursday (16th), so I'm still awaiting a reply from X4Less in that regard, however I received this letter from CRS yesterday:

 

Following initial letter we are disappointed that your account with Xercise 4 Less is still in arrears and our fee has not been paid.

 

We would like to reach an amicable resolution to this, however, if you fail to respond to this letter, we will have no option to commence further action to recover the monies owed. The options available to us are:

 

1. LEGAL ACTION

 

We believe you are in breach of a legally binding contract with Xercise 4 Less because you have not paid your membership and our fees. We may pursue a claim under this contract through the Courts. If we do so the following process would apply:

 

1. We will write a formal letter explaining what we are demanding and give you a final opportunity to par/replay;

2. If this failed to settle the matter we would issue proceedings against you in the county court;

3. You could then either:

a. make payment, ending the legal process, or

b. dispute some, or all, of the monies owed.

4. If you dispute the amount was owed the court process would continue, at the end of which the court would make a decision on our claim.

5. A strict court Court imposed timescale will apply in relation to the court process.

 

Were we to be successful in our claim, or if you ignore the claim, a County Court Judgement (CCJ) maybe be registered against you requiring you to make payment. You may also be liable for our costs of pursuing legal action and interest on the amount owed.

 

If you then fail to pay the amount covered by the CCJ we would take the next steps required to enforce the judgment. To do this we would have to make an application to court.

 

2. OUTSOURCE TO EXTERNAL AGENTS

 

Your account would be passed to another collection agency who will take further action to recover the monies owed.

 

YOU CAN AVOID THIS HAPPENING WITHIN THE NEXT 10 DAYS IF YOU CONTACT US etc etc.

 

Obviously I know they're a load of hot air, I just thought I'd post this if anyone had any experience of what comes next? I'm still awaiting on a reply from X4L to my last letter, but it was delivered on Friday (17th) so hopefully I should have one soon!

 

Cheers,

 

WL35

[slick132]

Hi WL,

 

Ignore this from Harlands/CRS.

 

If you didn't send the suggested letter to X4Less until 16th March, just wait until they reply to you properly.

 

[WL35]

Hi Slick,

 

I intended to, just thought I'd give a little update. I receved this email response from X4L this morning:

 

Thank you for your letter.

 

After looking into this, I am able to locate your cancellation request which you had submitted on the 22nd November 2016. We had then sent you a response on the 9th December 2016 advising you to contact our membership support team as you had cancelled your direct debit which had then put your account into default.

 

Unfortunately by cancelling your direct debit it has prevented Harlands from taking their agreed monthly payments and has incurred administration charges. You are then sent several letters advising you that your membership is in default and to contact ourselves to resolve this before it is passed on to a third party debt collectors.

 

After 3 months of missed payments and no contact the account is left unresolved therefor the account is then passed on to CRS. Please contact CRS directly on 01444449165 to discuss your arrears.

 

Kind regards,

 

[redacted]

 

Head Office

 

However, I've just looked and I haven't receieved anything from X4L until I sent them a letter, so I'm not sure what they're on about a response on the 9th Dec '16.

 

Also I've had nothing pertaining to the 3-month period that they mention regarding me having to get in touch so I had no idea and just ignored them.

 

Any ideas on what to do next?

 

Cheers,

WL35

[slick132]

Reply to X4Less by email :-

 

I refer to your email of xxdate.

 

As I already told you, I acknowledged that I cancelled the DD too early which is why I offered to pay Harlands the £9.99 owed. They failed to accept my offer and are now harassing me for fees i do not owe, presumably with your approval.

 

Unless you tell Harlands to cease contact with me immediately, formal complaints will be made without further notice. Such complaints will implicate Xercise4Less because they are obviously acting on YOUR behalf.

 

Let us know what comes back ................

 

[WL35]

Hi Slick,

 

Just sent that response, let's see what happens...

 

 

You're a great help so far thank you very much

[WL35]

Hi Slick,

 

Having sent your response, I've just recieved this response from Xercise4Less,

 

Good afternoon,

 

We can not remove the administration charge applied due to the cancellation of your direct debit as this is a part of your terms and conditions in which you have agreed to, please see these attached.

 

As you have not contacted us to pay your arrears to cancel, your account has now been passed to CRS, please contact them directly on 01444449165 to discuss your arrears.

 

Kind regards,

 

Attached was a copy of the terms and conditions. They just seem to be trying to avoid my point here!

 

Since I had fulfilled my 12-months obligation and was out of my initially agreed contract, wouldn't it make my 'agreement' to these terms and conditions null and void?

 

Cheers,

 

WL35

[slick132]

Hi WL,

 

No,, the agreement wouldn't be null and void. It rolled on, on a monthly basis.

 

In any event if X4Less aren't going to assist, so be it. Wait until you next hear from Harlands/CRS.

 

You can either just ignore them and wait for them to get bored and leave you alone.

 

Or you can complain to TS and The CMA.

 

And you should use social media to complain to X4Less publicly about their continued use of Harlands/CRS to harass gym members.