Alleged offence detected by camera

[CarolineT]

Hi,

I would like some advice on my next reply to the court

 

22/06/2015 - I receive a letter from Sheffield Police

stating Alleged offence detected by camera

date an time of offence 27/02/2015 @02:18am

 

this matter will now be referred to the appropriate department for consideration

by way of summons for one, or a combination of the following

1 failure to furnish driver details

2 excess points

3 driving licence not issued by DVLA Swansea

4 conditional offer not complied with

5speed recorded does not fall within guidelines for conditional offer

6 other

 

that is the first letter I received,

my response was

I m in receipt of your letter dated 22/06/2015 and I would like to ask what the alleged offence is?

I have had no previous communication in relation to this alleged offence,

I do not understand the length of time this has taken?

 

may I take this opportunity to reply to your points

 

1 I have had no request/producer that asks for this information

2 I have a clean driving licence

3 my driving licence was issued by DVLA in 1993 and is due to be renewed in 3 months time

4 what is a conditional offer ? I have not been given this opportunity

5 this seems to contradict your point 4

6 could you substantiate this statement I do not know what "other is"

at the end of this letter I ask if they can furnish me with the details of the alleged offence I am missing leaving my telephone number and reminding them of my address

 

I did not get any response from the police ( I recorded the delivery of this letter)

20/08/2015 - I received a court summons

 

at this time

I wrote again to Sheffield Police and stated that I thought it unreasonable to ignore my previous letter and issue court proceedings , I asked for copies of the original paperwork ( I recorded the delivery of this letter)

I received a reply stating this is now being dealt with by the court

I filled in the court paperwork which was contrary to section 172(3) of the road traffic act 1988

and schedule 2 of the road traffic offenders act 1988

- this is a failure to supply driver details ,

there is a copy of a blank section 172 drivers statement, this has never been received at my address

there is no mention of speeding on this court summons

 

I replied to the court and plead not guilty, with a copy of all the documents I had sent to the police,

 

I have received a response from the court stating

1 the police would accept a guilty plea to the original offence of speeding instead of the notice offence ,

please respond to the court before the next hearing

 

my question is ,

there is no mention in the court papers of speeding,

how can the court swop offences ?

 

I believe the Police are out of time to prosecute me for speeding

as they did not send me any request for information

and completely ignored my requests for information

 

If I plead guilty to speeding I will get 4 points which is a magistrates minimum and a fine

and I will not have the opportunity to undertake a speed awareness course or keep my licence clean

 

could anyone advise me ?

 

Thank you

 

Caroline

[Guest]

when you say you replied to the ct pleading not guilty, was this in yr absence. adjourned. and now there is another hearing listed re a lesser offence.

have they furnished the camera details.

[Sidewinder]

Have you changed address recently?

[CarolineT]

no not at all, Ive lived here for 10 years,

 

 

On the court summons I asked that Sheffield Police provide proof of postage,

[CarolineT]

Hi Ford,

 

 

the court got my reply pleading not guilty , the have adjourned the case until May ,

then wrote to me stating the police would accept a guilty plea to speeding instead of failure to provide

 

 

Speeding Is not a charge listed in the summons

 

 

what I would like to happen is that the police let me take a speed awareness course and be done with it

which is what should have happened in the first place

[Guest]

whilst a lesser or different offence cld be substituted it usually wld require formality.

i guess a motoring solicitor wld welcome yr case and poss get rid of it. is that a possibility.

did you get details of the camera evidence.

[CarolineT]

Hi

 

 

I got a copy of the picture with the court documents, nothing before hand

the paperwork I received from court states

Notice of a new date of hearing

 

 

 

 

Reasons

the matter has been adjourned because :

1 the police would accept a guilty plea to the original offence of speeding instead of the notice offence

please respond to the court before the next hearing

 

 

personally I did not know they could do that , as speeding is not on the summons

 

the original letter I received 22/06/2015 was a type written letter - white headed paper , white envelope - I have to admit , I thought the letter had been sent by one of my colleagues playing a prank

 

 

from the alleged incident date 22/02/2015 to 22/06/2015 I received nothing from Sheffield Police - no request , not even the - if you do not respond - we will take you to court , absolutely nothing

 

 

I have 10 years no claims and a clean licence - 3 points would cost me 6 pound increase insurance a year for three years -

a speed awareness course would cost whatever they cost

 

 

I did not try to avoid either of these punishments , it would be pointless and no benefit to myself

[Guest]

hi

a different offence can sometimes be substituted, with the required formality. ie agreement. why i suggest seeing a solicitor if poss. i know that may cost. but, they may be able to get some costs back if they can get it thrown out.

heres an eg. in court re one offence at plea and directions at crown court. both counsel agree on a lesser offence to that on the prosecution. in court the def formally pleads not guilty to the original charge but then says 'but plead guilty to xxxx. (being the lesser offence)'

[CarolineT]

I don't agree to the substitution, It should never have got to court in the first place , I probably need to speak to a solicitor and get some legal advice

[Nimrod205]

Am I stupid or something? I don't see any evidence of a substitution taking place. The original letter you received from Sheffield Police clearly states "one, or a combination of the following". Not ALL of them.

As I read their letter, point 6 addresses the issue of speeding and it seems that you have received a generic (computer generated) response for "failing to provide driver details". As you never received the original NIP, you are not guilty of this offence. You should make it clear to the court that an NIP was never received and that the Police have failed to respond to your requests for information.

[CarolineT]

I have made it very very clear I did not receive any letter, reminder, or a threat of court action,and not under any circumstance would i plead guilty to failure to provide,the court has a copy of all the documents i sent to the police, i feel like.....they know i have not had the documents but will settle for any prosecution

[CarolineT]

I was probably speeding, and I should take that punishment, but should i not be obliged to due process,

[Guest]

Am I stupid or something? I don't see any evidence of a substitution taking place. The original letter you received from Sheffield Police clearly states "one, or a combination of the following". Not ALL of them.

....

no, it appears there has been no subst as yet. they are asking for it, then if agreed. as i mentioned.

it appears that whilst the letter said one or comb, the actual subsequent prosecution is re failure to supply details. perhaps caroline can clarify that ie posting up what actually is on the summons.

[CarolineT]

please find one of the letters

Epson_04052016191847.pdf

[CarolineT]

the letters are attached

1 the first letter dated 22/06/2016 is the first letter I received

2 the court letter

 

 

let me know what you think

 

 

caroline

Epson_04052016191741.pdf

Epson_04052016191847.pdf

[silverfox1961]

Hi

I have unapproved your attachments as they contain personal information. Please edit accordingly (reg number)

[CarolineT]

I don't have that car any more,

[CarolineT]

Hi, I don't have that car registration anymore- no one does it was written off , can you put my letters back

[Guest]

Hi, I don't have that car registration anymore- no one does it was written off , can you put my letters back

it was mainly re their reference numbers, up to you.?

[CarolineT]

please put them back, I'm not worried about the reference numbers

 

 

thanks

[CarolineT]

Ford

 

 

Can you see both letters now

[Guest]

it seems that, for whatever reason, they didnt have the driver details at the time of considering prosecution (also note s127 (2) and (7) etc), so went for failing to supply. as they now have the driver details (which is the same) they are offering the speeding offence. which offence carries the heavier penalty?

if they can show that they sent out a request for details and nothing came back in time (though note s127 (2), then i suppose they could continue with that offence, if you dont plead re the speeding.

if they didnt send out a formal request, then maybe they cocked up procedurally. whether though that wld be enough to negate things, not sure.

also, whether or not they could continue with the speeding offence without your plea, or wld have to do a new summons re, again not sure.

so, still suggest maybe seeing a motoring solicitor or perhaps a direct access motoring barrister, if you are not going to accept the speeding, or are not sure. it will cost, unless somehow you could get any legal aid assistance. maybe a motoring sol can do a free initial short consultation.

but, see what the guys suggest.

[Guest]

ps can you still try for a speed awareness instead, as you mentioned?

[CarolineT]

I am writing my response as we speak - type , with reference to the original offence of speeding - this is not mentioned anywhere on previous court / police documents ? I'm going to address that first an then move onto due process, which I have not been given

[CarolineT]

thank you ford