Landlord and so called bailif

[Pen]

Hi my son who is a student is haveing problems with his landlord.

His tenency ended on the 31st March 2006. My son was in arrears with one monthes rent£ 1200. 2 weeks before the end of the tenency the landlord removed all my sons belongings and changed the lock whilst he was at university so my son had no belongings and nowhere to stay, my daughter had to pay for a hotel for him untill we called sort him out with accommodation. The following weekend I had to visit the landlord to sort out the problem. I live 250mls away so I had to stay in a hotel for the weekend also it cost me around £150 in petrol and other expencers.

I was the garantour for my son so if the landlord had he problem with the rent he could have claimed it from me he had my phone number and address, thats the role of garantor. When I asked the landlord where my sons belongings where he said he called a bailif to remove them. he would not give me the name of the bailf my son had not had any communications with bailifs it was the first we had heard of it. I asked the landlord why he change the locks and he replyied he thought my son had left, even though his belongings where there food, clothes etc when I threatend the landlord with the police he informed me that he would have my sons belongings back on the monday for him to collect provided my son signed a agreement to pay the rent . I refused to allow my son to do this because I was the garentour and if the landlord had problems then he should have approched me in the first place. The landlord agreed to return my sons belongings. My son was meant to play in a band over the weekend but because tthe landlord had his guitar etc he could not play so lost a lot of money because of it.

Because of his actions I have not paid the rent owning as I informed the landlord that as he had broken the conditions of the contract and made alternitive arrangments to collect the debt I was no longer responcible as garentor. Also I would need to deduct the cost of my hotel, petrol, sons accommodation, storage for his belongings etc he already has my sons deposit. what do I do should I have tp pay anything and if so what do you think is reasonable

Thanks Pen

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi Pen,

 

In reply to your post and in my opinion:

 

1.Your son's ex-landlord has illegally evicted him.At the time you could have got an injunction from the county court to compel the landlord to re-instate your son back into the property.Of course,as a matter of principle you should have seen that any rent owed was also paid up in full.

 

2.The only way a landlord can gain a possession order is through the court after issuing a 2 month notice based on rent arrears.Especially considering your son's belongings were in the property.

 

3.The person who removed your son's belongings was probably this landlord's dogsbody.No bailiff would be able to remove anything without a warrrant and anyway going by what you have stated there was no possession order granted by a court in the first place.

 

4.Pesonally,I would threaten to sue this ex-landlord for illegal eviction under Section 27 and Section28 of the 1988 Housing Act(These sections of the act deal with the remedies and basis for damages for eviction etc.In some cases,it has run into tens of thousands of pounds but in your specific case I would say that the summons should be issued for an unfixed amount including interest if allowed by the judge up to a maximum of £5000 - small claim.Hopefully you will get around at least half this amount or slightly more i.e. around £3000.Make sure you have all the evidence of your expenses/losses etc.

 

I hope you find this information useful.

 

If you have any questions,just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[MrShed]

Contact the police as well - unlawful eviction is a serious criminal offence.

[Pen]

Wow, Nightmere4banks, I am so glad you are a member for this group. Your right, I think the Bailiff was his dogs body or even himself. However we did call the police for advice but I think they where just to busy to help us they did say if it became a breach of the peace to call them.

My son will be thrilled with this advice all we want is to get him of our back as I do not feel we should have to pay him since it cost us nearly more the the rent due to sort it out. I also agree my son should have payed his rent but being a student I just don't think he could afford it and didn't like worrying me, I have a terminal illness and this is effecting him greatly as he can not always afford to come home and see me. One thing I would be concerned about is the landlord lives a few streets away from my sons new home do you think he would go after me son if I don't pay up. Hmm, I will draft a letter for my son and let him decide.

Thanks ever so much for your advice, that's one weight of my mind

Cheers

Pen

[MrShed]

This is one of the worst examples of bad landlording I have heard about, and just to back up what I have said previously and what N4B has said, the courts will take an EXTREMELY dim view of what he has done, and a fairly substantial compensation payment will probably be awarded.

[Nightmare4banks]

Pen in reply to your last post:

 

To begin with,I am very glad to be a member of this forum.I have learned alot and I am very pleased to share by in depth knowledge in certain field with others

 

Anyway,in brief:

 

1.There are broadly speaking two types of eviction:

 

a.Constructive - where the landlord and/or agent perform acts likely to interefere with the quite enjoyment of the tenant while legally occupying the premises with the objective of making the tenant give up occupation of the premises for example:threats of eviction,cutting off gas and electricity supply etc.

 

b.Non-Constructive - this is the type where the landlord simply throws the tenant's belongs out of the property and changes the lock as what has happened in your son's case.

 

2.The police do not normally get involved in prosecuting landlords/agents etc.This only happens when a landlord breaks a tenant's arm etc i.e. physical violence or acts likely to breach the peace. Each local authority has its own Private Tenancy Department which have the powers prosecute private landlords(under Protection from the Eviction Act 1977) and you could easily report what has happened to your son to the Private Tenancy Officer in the area where the property is where your son was evicted.He/she would probably write to this ex-landlord and explain to him the fact that he could be prosecuted.Actually,it is not too late to get him prosecuted.Personally,I feel he would get a fine and made to pay court costs.In some cases a criminal(magistrates in this case) court can award compensation.A case for assualt would be dealt with by the Crown Court with a possibility of imprisonment as well as a fine.

 

Anyway,hopefully if the Private Tenancy Officer contacts this ex-landlord it should scare him off wanting to persue any rent owed.By the way,this service is totally free.

 

3.If you are worried about your son being bothered by the ex-landlord - use a mail forwarding service.This should only cost a few pounds per month and you could also use it if you wanted to sue this ex-landlord without revealing your address or your son's address.A post office po box can be traced and that is therefore no good in this case.

 

4.In your case,because you had guaranteed the rent the landlord should have contacted you for the rent in the event of your son's defaulting on the rent.This is why as Mr.Shed has just mentioned -

a typical example of very bad landlording.

 

Anyway,I hope this helps.

 

If you need more help,just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[Pen]

thank you all for your kind advice which I will follow on. I have discused it with my son as I would not like him to get done over for my actions and he agrees to go ahead, we have all our evidence includig a recording of the conversation which my daughter took from her mobil phone and a writtern agreement the landlord wanted my son to sign before he would give him back his belongings. along with hotel recipts etc. So I have now drafted this letter The landlord left a mesage on my anwser machine last week so I need to get back to him. anyway would you mind reading the letter through to see if I have worded it correctly or if I should add anything else. I have left out the names and addresses as I would not like him to read it and sue me. If you are to busy or just don't want to thats ok just ignor my request but thank you so far for your help.

Pen. Ps I hope you don't mind but I have said I have sought legal advice.

 

Dear Mr ....

I apologies for the time it has taken for me to respond to your request for rent owing as guarantor for.....

After taking legal advice regarding the unlawful eviction of my son, .... I have now been advised that to lawfully evict my son from his rented accommodation at you needed to apply for a possession order from the court after issuing my son with a 2 month notice based on rent arrears especially considering my sons belongings where in the premises.

Furthermore the bailiff who removed my son’s belongings would have needed a warrant issued by the said court. I would be great full if you could send me a copy of this warrant along with the possessions order you acquired to evict my son, the 2 month possessions notice and the Bailiffs company name and address.

If you do not supply me with these documents within 14 days of receipt of this letter I will have no alternative but to issue you with a summons under s27 and s28 of the Housing act 1988 for illegal eviction.

And at that point I will make a claim against you for an amount in damages and expenses including costs and interest.

I look forward to hearing from you.

[MrShed]

At first glance, the only thing I would say is you have confused two methods of eviction. There is one method of eviction, which would require a Section 8 notice to be served, based upon rent arrears(which would require at least 2 months of arrears) - this only requires 14 days expiry, not 2 months. Or there is a Section 21 notice, which can be issued for no reason, but requires a 2 month expiry - but this cannot be acted upon during any fixed term. Other than that it looks ok, but I shall read it in a bit more detail later and suggest any changes.

[Pen]

Thanks Mr Shed, knew I would do something wrong, I don't really wont to claim damagers etc so I will proberly leave this out. i really just want to scare him enough to get him off our bank and not treat his other tenants the same.

Thanks again

Pen

[MrShed]

Pen...I mean it is totally up to you, but you really should claim damages. They could be substantial, and the only way this landlord will learn is if you hit him where it hurts. Apart from anything else, your direct financial loss is significant, and this before the extreme stress you have been put under.

[Pen]

Ok, I think I'm just worried in case my son gets hurt but I don;t think the Landlord would do anything to physicaly harm him he would be stupid to don't you think.

I am just a born worryer. Mr Shed, would you mind helping me write the letter to him. Somehow I have misunderstood what N4b is advising me with regards to sections of the act. Not that I think N4Bs is wrong, who am I to say who is right or wrong thats why I am here seeking advice I thought I understood the section of the act but it seems from your reply I didn't. But I don't want to sound aggressive in my letter to him just formal and legal as if I now what I'm talking about even if I don't, does that make sence. Just as long as he knows I know and he won't be able to go after my son for the rent, as it was quite a lot we had to pay to sort it out. believe me I could have killed my son for not keeping me informed as it would have been cheaper paying the rent and a lot less hassel but I could understand his worry and the presure he must have been under. But saying that I could also have killed the landlord because as garentour he should have kept me informed of the arrears.

 

If you don't mind helping me that is.

Thanks again everyone

Pen.

[Pen]

Sorry, just thinking there are a lot of sections, N4b talks about s27 s28 and MrShed mentiions s7 s14. do all these relate to eviction notices ?

Pen

[MrShed]

I mention S8 and S21 . They are the ONLY two sections which deal with HOW to evict a tenant. The sections N4B has mentioned are slightly different, they are about the rights of a tenant not to be evicted other than using one of these processes.

 

I can understand your worry, but I do not think you have anything to worry about - any more. If the landlord did any more than he has done, he would be extremely foolish, and would probably land him in jail.

[Pen]

.Thanks Mr Shed that has made everything much clearer. I can now get my head around it though I think Iwill leave the rest of the thinking till the morning. thanks you again and you to N4B goodnight and godbess to both of you If I carry on anylinger it would be my stong medication talking and spelling not me. I won't be worth listerning to as it will be a load of gobble le gouch. hope to speak to you all tomorrow at some point.

thanks again for your help I am so glad I found you both.

Pen

[Nightmare4banks]

Pen,in reply to your last posts:

 

1.Mr.Shed is referring to the means in which to evict tenants in a lawful manner.

 

2.The Sections that I have quoted are linked to the unlawful/illegal eviction of a tenant and the measure of how damages/compensation is calculated.

They can also be measured in reference to "breach of the quite enjoyment" as well.Both measures are used by the courts.

3.Do not forget to contact the Private Tenancy Officer and

use the response regarding eviction as "suing fodder" against the bad landlord.He will think twice about evicting another tenant in the future.

4.Do not refer to the sections 27 and 28 in your letter.Simply state that you will be suing for unlawful/illegal eviction.At the end of the day,if this matter goes to court it will be up to the judge to decide what to award your son.

Anyway,compensation under Sections 27 & 28 1988 Housing Act do not attract interest on the amount whereas breach of the quite enjoyment do.Why?It is because the calculation is worked out in a different manner.

 

Anyway,like you say God Bless you and if we can help you any more just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[Pen]

Thanks N4b, I will contact the Private tenancy officer today, as you say, it would be terrible if this happened to another student, He only rents out to students and chargers them a fortune for a squaller. I will also delete the sections I have quoted. You must have had a late night like me, its horrible when you can't sleep and all the world is well away in the land of nod don't you think.

You may not think it but I am very grateful for the advice and kindness of you all.

Thank you again for your time and trouble.

Pen

[Pen]

Hi everyone, just an update on today. I called the council for my sons area and asked for the Private Tenancy Department. I was put through to the Housing Dept who informed me that they do not have a Private Tenancy Officer, they told me they have a housing needs officer if I would like to speak with them, I explained my problem and told them that I really need to speak with someone who investigate's complaints regarding bad landlords they told me that it was a solicitor I needed to speak to not the Council.

No help there then?

Pen

[MrShed]

Hmmm...I would not expect a great deal from the council, but nothing is a bit less than I thought! I would ring back, try and speak to someone else.

[Nightmare4banks]

Pen,

 

This is typical "fob you off" council tactics.

It is correct that you would need to see a solicitor however the council has a duty and obligation by statute under 1977 Protection from The Eviction Act

to deal with illegal acts committed by landlords.

 

The housing dept should deal with this matter.Request to speak to the housing officer and let us know how you get on.

[Pen]

Good evening guy's, sorry I had a late night like most of you I'm afraid. and my body does not start to work until around 2 after all my medication has kicked in. I should have got back to you straight after I called them, heard what you had to say then call them back. Anyway I will try a different approach in speaking with them tomorrow and will report back to you. if you still don't mind thats is. I just really wanted to warn them about this Landlord in cause other future students have the same problem, Also I think my son told me he got the property, after seeing it advertised through the uni student services I will try to contact them also maybe they can take him off their books, its worth a try do you think.

Thanks again

Pen

[Nightmare4banks]

Pen,

 

Yes,It is a good idea to report the matter to the uni - student services.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Pen]

Hi, everyone, sorry it has taken so long in updating you on what has been happening. After thinking this all through and only just finding out that my son paid the landlord £900 deposit I am getting more and more frustrated about the way my son was treated so we are going to take Legal Action against this landlord to claim back the costs plus deposit and anything else we can take him for. I gather that the letter I drafted is very inadequate to say the least. What we need to know is this. How do we apply to a court to sue this bloke. Do we have to write to him first or do we just go to the courts and if so how and what type of court, do we have to stipulate a amount we would wish to sue him for over and above costs etc or do the courts make that decision. Even if we deducted the rent owning to this landlord £1,200 we have paid out 2 sets of hotel costs travel expenses 500miles round trip sons loss of earnings deposit etc this land lord would owe my son quite a bit. I can not believe he did what he did for the sake of £300, being £1,200 - £900 deposit and still have the nerve to ask me for the £1,200. So can some one advice me how to start the ball rolling.

Thanks again

Pen

[Nightmare4banks]

Pen,in reply to your post and in my opinion:

 

1.Send a LBA - Letter Before Action by Recorded Delivery Post giving the ex-landlord 14 days to "cough up" and if he does not.Issue the summons.It is as simple as that.You should be able to find more than one sample letter on this forum.Actually the letter you posted before is okay but do not refer to any acts of Parliament at all.Also make sure you put in the letter that it is a letter before action.

 

2.Make sure to quantify your losses i.e. mainly deposit and hotel expenses but if this matter does go to court the ex-landlord would probably be able to offset the rent amount against your claim amount.The final decision would be in the hands of the judge.The amount regarding the eviction damages and loss of your son's earnings(unless you have a figure in mind) are more difficult to calculate.

 

3.In order to succeed with a claim under Sections 27 & 28 of the Housing Act you would need the property to be valued.As this is impossible now that your son has been evicted.So,if this matter goes to court it would probably be assessed based on the "breach of quite enjoyment" associated with landlord & tenant contract law instead.Having said this,it maybe possible to do a "ball park valuation".

In order to do so,I would need the postal code of the property plus associated brief details i.e.2 bed house/1 bed flat etc.This would help to work out how much you should sue for plus the other amounts that have outlined above.

 

Anyway,I hope this helps.

[Pen]

Hi N4Bs, Thank you for your prompt reply. No, I have no idea of an amount in mind, don't forget I did not realised my son could make a claim against him until you very kindly told me. I don't think I could print the details here other then to say the house is in Hertfordshire. If its ok with you and you don't mind, I will get the details and PM then to you early this evening.

Please let me no if you don't want me to do this.

Thanks again for you help

Pen

[Nightmare4banks]

Pen,

 

That is fine.You can PM me.

 

Make sure to please include the full post code of the property plus a brief description.If it is a house,please specify no. of bedrooms and type of house i.e. detached/semi or terraced etc.