Basic Income Guarantee-Do You Like The Idea-Any Views-Have Your Say.

[duncan102]

How funny!!!!!! Very interesting and thought provoking. Comical as well. How long ago was it thought that if you went to the end of the world, you could fall off? How funny. How long ago was it that people thought it would be impossible that you could order everything you need right from your very own armchair? How funny. How long ago was it that people thought it would be impossible to have virtual friends and relationships? How funny. In the future people will ask "How long ago was it that people had Jobs, before full automation and robots? " How funny!!!!!!!!. A Basic Income would be a godsend to me at the moment. Not so funny

[Tawnyowl]

Hi duncan102,

Thanks for posting,i thought you might pop in.

And a interesting post as well,nicely put.

Just a quick post making a Heron out of Driftwood in the garden,Henry The Heron mach 2.But just popped by.

 

Let us think of carers.The population is aging,many more carers will be needed.

But so many carers struggling to get by.Think what a basic income could do for them.

Take the stress away a little.

 

Well enough for now Henry the Heron is calling me to put him together.

Go on then a video to finish off for now.There will be much more when time allows,and of course have your say.What you think.

 

Boxing coach Daz on how Basic Income could help people to blossom.

[duncan102]

Busy trying to sell everything but just a quick message re your post

 

making a Heron out of Driftwood in the garden, Henry

 

WIT WOOOOOOOO TAWNYOWL when I get back on my feet, ( don't know how long that will be,) but would love to commission you for a little mouse and a big lion made out of Driftwood to constantly remind me of when I needed strength.

 

Re: Basic Income Guarantee - Hope it is in my lifetime when us human lunatics take over the poverty trap asylum

[Tawnyowl]

Good luck duncan102-kind words.I appreciate them.I wish you well.

 

Back to Basic Income business

State handouts for all? Europe set to pilot universal basic incomes

Switzerland is poised to hold a referendum on introducing the concept, and Finnish and Dutch pilots are set for 2017

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/02/state-handouts-for-all-europe-set-to-pilot-universal-basic-incomes

 

But the latest poll in Switzerland.

Switzerland set to vote on universal basic income

The latest polls show 72 per cent of the public are likely to vote against the proposal

Sunday's vote will be to decide whether to support the principle of the new measure, rather than to immediately implement it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-set-to-vote-on-universal-basic-income-a7064086.html

 

But do not be disheartened.You do not think i would leave it at that.

Having it explained that the income “replaces other social security payments and is high enough to cover all basic needs”, 62 per cent of the UK population said it would support such a policy.

Two thirds of the British public support a universal basic income, poll finds

The policy also has significant support across the European Union

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/universal-basic-income-unconditional-ubi-poll-britain-uk-switzerland-policy-a7043281.html

 

Now a chap wrote in the New York Times.I look at articles in many areas .

Eduardo Porter has published an article in the New York Times titled, “A Universal Basic Income Is a Poor Tool to Fight Poverty“ It is not the first article to make such a claim, and it won’t be the last, but all such articles tend to share one thing in common — the outright omission of all evidence to the contrary, and a gross manipulation of facts to build an argument out of straw.

 

Scott Santens a writer in America who i follow and read his articles.

Well he replied.and i feel blew Ecuardo out of the water with his reasoning and research.

Many links on the article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-santens/universal-basic-income-is_b_10251176.html

 

Enough for now.

More soon Tawnyowl.

[Tawnyowl]

Switzerland vote on Basic Income.

Don't miss out on the livestream from Basic Income HQ here in Switzerland!

.A historic day.

10 am-6 i will write updates as the day goes on.

 

 

 

One of the World's Most Expensive Countries Is Debating Giving Away Money Today.Giving everybody a Basic Income.

Do i think the Swiss will vote for this.

No,but i would like to be shocked.Link.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-23/one-of-the-world-s-most-expensive-countries-is-debating-giving-away-money

 

And has created interest around the world.

How would you vote if Basic Income was to be voted on today in Great Britain.I would vote yes.

[Tawnyowl]

Just grabbed his from Scott Santens

 

The Results of the Basic Income Referendum in Switzerland

Today is the day Switzerland voted on the idea of an unconditional basic income. It is a first. It is historic. It is direct democracy in action.

https://medium.com/basic-income/the-results-of-the-basic-income-referendum-in-switzerland-f1723925e54f#.xev1gdnn7

 

Another article.

How much basic income could your government pay out if it changed the welfare state? http://econ.st/288XGK3

[Consumer dude]

It was rejected wasn't it ?..

[Tawnyowl]

Hello Consumer Dude.

It certainly was rejected as expected.

Switzerland,population about 8 million.

 

Switzerland is a mountainous Central European country, home to numerous lakes, villages and the high peaks of the Alps. Old Towns within its cities contain medieval landmarks like capital Bern’s Zytglogge clock tower and Cathedral of Bern. The country is also a destination for its ski resorts and hiking trails. Banking and finance are key industries, and Swiss watches and chocolate are renowned.

Sure would be a nice place to visit.

 

Back to reality.23% for 765 against.

568,905 for, 1,896,963 against.

Well what can i say,

Perhaps one of the good things to happen in my view,is how many people have now heard about Basic Income.

At one time today Basic Income was trending on Twitter.

Early days yet many people are only just beginning to think about Basic Income never mind how many people still have no idea such a thing existed.

I did not know myself a couple of months ago.

I am not saddened by this news as it was expected.

Onward now searching for latest news on this idea.As and when it appears.

 

Such as this article.

John McDonnell: Labour taking a close look at universal basic income

Labour is considering backing the idea of a universal basic income – a radical transformation of the welfare state that would ditch means-tested benefits in favour of a flat-rate payment.

 

John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, who is keen to find policies to match his slogan of a “new economics,” will appear at the launch of a report on the proposal from the leftwing campaign group Compass in the House of Commons on Monday evening.

Shadow chancellor says the concept of an unconditional payment to all could prepare country for robotisation of the workforce

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/john-mcdonnell-labour-universal-basic-income-welfare-benefits-compass-report

 

And this one.And you can vote if you feel you would like to.

John McDonnell considers radical scheme that could pay every Brit a guaranteed income

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-mcdonnell-considers-radical-scheme-8119027

 

More and more people are getting to hear about Basic Income,this is good news.

My opinion,i understand others may have opposing views,have your say.

[Guest]

only 8 million! thought it was more than that, dont know why.

anyway, it rests to see whether the eu adopts such a policy. they already like the min wage.

[Tawnyowl]

At the moment, if someone who is on means-tested Income Support or Job-Seeker’s Allowance enters employment, fairly soon their benefit is withdrawn pound for pound (apart from a small disregard), and, as their income rises, they lose Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit and they start to pay Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions.

Something similar happens to someone in low paid work who is receiving tax credits: as their earned income rises, tax credits fall, income tax is paid, National Insurance Contributions are paid, Housing Benefit is lost ….

Much more on the link.

 

A Citizen’s Income (CI) is ‘an unconditional, non-withdrawable income payable to each individual as a right of citizenship’. A Citizen’s Income would help to tackle poverty by providing an income on which people with low earnings potential could build through paid work and savings.

A thinkpiece that is very interesting.

 

And though not sure of this may be interesting the Labour Party.

Who i am hoping will make a big announcement shortly.Well you can hope.

I am waiting i feel for the chosen ones to arrive.Politics has disillusioned me somewhat for years now.I need to feel the power.

Something and somebody with vision.Well everyone has a view.

http://www.compassonline.org.uk/publications/a-citizens-income-a-recipe-for-change/

[citizenB]

It was rejected wasn't it ?..

 

 

Yes it was CD

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465460-Labour-considering-universal-basic-income-as-part-of-new-economics-agenda

[Tawnyowl]

Paying everyone a basic income won't make them lazy – fat cat salaries prove there's no link between work and pay

We don’t think a handsomely paid chief executive might be demotivated by their large income, but suggest £70 a week for every citizen would mean we’d take to our couches en masse

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/basic-income-link-work-and-pay-high-ceo-salaries-switzerland-finland-netherlands-a7068656.html

[Tawnyowl]

I started writing this thread about Basic Income.

Sometimes,well lately that is i look back in the Bear Garden,check out if others have written anything about things before.

As i do not really like to take that space if already been written about.

 

Now i did post on a thread a while ago.Someone was talking about the Green Party and it caught my attention because i had met a couple of Greens in Manchester in 2013.

 

Not really realising that the thread was about Universal Basic Income.

So i thought i would connect the thread so you can read what a member called Clear33 had written about.

Fair play,it was many weeks later that i started getting interested in Basic Income.

 

Universal Automatic Citizens Income By clear33

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?445525-Universal-Automatic-Citizens-Income

 

Many more articles soon,with news,views,videos and more.

And of course have your say.

Lat thing,i am looking all over the world for news views and comments.What i will say without going on to much is the idea is catching on massively.

Bye for now,

Tawnyowl.

[fletch70]

FF please take your xenophobic comments elsewhere , I know of a forum or two that will welcome them

 

What is wrong with the concept of a basic income that gives basic living standards in the worlds 5th biggest economy

[snowdragon]

if footballers etc were not paid stupid money for what 90 mins of kicking a ball round it would help! How can anyone person be worth X amount of money? It amounts to buy someone, like slavery!

[fletch70]

I know that in the global North we are relatively well off and there is little absolute poverty BUT there is a lot of relative poverty. As for slavery it goes against the UN declaration on Human Rights, it obviously goes against ECHR and the HRA but that gets people all twitched up

[Tawnyowl]

The last thing this country needs is to give free money to anybody. Imagine the tens of millions trying to get to our land in every possible way!

 

Hi fishfingered.

I welcome all thoughts for and against.All i ask is people really look hard at this idea.

And research a little if possible.

Your thoughts on attracting millions of economic migrants,not refugees fleeing hell is i suppose one that many perhaps have wondered.

When thinking of this idea for the first time.

 

Let us go back to Barcelona Spain in 2004.Well before the huge increases in migration that we have seen.

See how you feel after reading this.It covered i feel many of your worries.

If you feel like it come back and tell us your views.What you would recommend. The way to go.

 

Basic Income and Migration Policy: A Moral Dilemma?

A paper for the 10th Congress of the Basic Income European Network, Barcelona, Spain, 18-21

September 2004

Michael W. Howard

Department of Philosophy

The University of Maine

Orono, Maine 04469 USA

http://www.basicincome.org/bien/pdf/2004Howard.pdf

[Tawnyowl]

And since then we have a massive Automation Industrial Revolution happening.That is going to spread worldwide.

And cost many millions of jobs.

I dare not say tens of millions of jobs.

We need to debate Basic Income soon to prepare for the revolution.Before it is here in Great Britain.

My view and as usual i understand many will disagree.Have your say.

 

And if you feel this is important tell the politicians we want a Debate.

 

Perhaps time to sign the petition.Up to you though.Thanks fletch70

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/128234

[determindator]

Oops wrong thread

[fletch70]

Tawny owl, are you a bit of a Marxist? Each according to ability, each according to need (Marx, 1875)

 

Petition signed

 

No doubt a certain member of the site team will have something to say

[Tawnyowl]

Hi Fletch70.

A interesting question.

To tell you the truth i do not really know who i am,who i support, what i am,i feel lost.

 

Let down,do not feel i can trust anyone politically.So many times i see that politicians say one thing then do another thing when gaining a little power.Suppose it is just the way it is.

A sad situation but the truth.

 

In how i write i suppose people make a judgement

If anyone can tell me by the way i write what i am feel free.Or if you are wise what you feel i may be.

 

I just want fairness and justice and people to manage without stress,anxiety,and feeling persecuted by outdated,old fashioned ways.

Decide by people who it seems do not care.

Only about themselves and how much money is to be made.

So i wonder myself what am i.What does that make me.

 

I will return to normality soon.

Bye for now,off to roost.

Tawnyowl.

[Tawnyowl]

Sorry about that,i perhaps went a litle deep.

After a friendly question by Fletch 22 i wondered a few things.I have been thinking of things going back in time,

For a few hours and am glad i was asked a question.

 

Wondering yes what am i,and why.And why do you support this idea of Basic Income so strongly.

Perhaps a few people wonder who i support politically.

All i can say as before,i feel like i am waiting for something or someone,the chosen one or ones to arrive with ideas fit for the modern world we live in.

I do not like what i am seeing at the moment.

So many spout of about what they are going to do,but what they achieve usually can be written on the back of a stamp.

 

I think now i am just a Dreamer hoping.

That perhaps is what i am.

 

Try to keep this short it is the Bear Garden where we can relax a touch from the seriousness of peoples problems in the Forums.

I watch many threads and am amazed at the help given to people going through such difficult times.

And the Site Team who give so much time and effort themselves to help people.

I will be quite blunt here and say i just hope people do Donate from time to time to keep this site going,that has helped so many.

 

When i look back i realise i have not had many true friends in my life,perhaps one.Kept myself to myself,a bit of a loner.

When younger i left home 17 by myself and traveled around.£4.50 in my pocket.I was lucky is all i will say.

Been homeless three times,it is not very nice.

I was soft natured gentle i feel mentally and physically,and people took advantage.

Till finally for some reason i took up martial arts many years ago.Why i cannot explain.

Kung Fu and Taekwondo well before it became a Olympic sport.

Took a couple of belts but hated standing in front of people so just trained.

Just the way i am,belts to me personally did not prove anything.Some may disagree,fair enough.

 

Trained 7 days a week could not get any fitter so started running as well.

Not realising this would give you discipline

Learn to Find Focus and Stillness

Learn to Take Hits

Gain Self Confidence and Self Respect

Connect Their Mind and Body-off a article,could not think that out.

Learn Conflict Resolution,the idea that you will not use this to knock ten bells out of people but are able to if needed to take a little control.

 

I have seen in my life some terrible things as many perhaps have.Unable or scared to act.

Till the time comes where you have to.

Sometimes anyway to far away to do anything anyway.

Perhaps the best form of self defence is to run away from the situation you may find yourself in.

 

Massive fights,murder,where i saw the look of death in someones eyes.People being hurt

Women being bullied and hurt by men,when acted two times the following days i was told to mind my own business instead of police action.Despite being asked to help in the first place.I have even seen a man being treated the same way,it works both ways.

 

Paid to go in a ring with someone who had fought for the world championship in America.

Meant nothing to me,what was i trying to prove.

Why i did that i do not know really,not one of by better ideas.

Faced a group of bullies in no doubt i would have been murdered if there had been a different outcome.

I have written about this elsewhere in the forums.No need to repeat.

Usually more than one,only on one occasion one person.

 

So what does that make me why do i support in this idea of Basic Income.

As i look around,i have observed people in all sorts of situations with calmness.Close up.

Always i look in peoples eyes where i feel sometimes you can,i do not know how to explain this,perhaps the truth in what they are saying or which way they are going to act.

 

I see in my area,when observing people so much stress,relative poverty,problems.

People who are caring for others,want to care for others,people who would volunteer perhaps but are trapped.

Young people who perhaps would become champions of sport but have lost that chance due to pressures,usually money.

People who would be able to perhaps get businesses going if given a little time.

 

Remind me of a lad i met the other day who was trying to get business in the local community in his own way if i do not write about him soon.I realised what a Basic Income would mean to him.

And stopped and talked to him for a while.

Potential,writers,entrepreneurs,artists,gardeners,so many things if given the opportunity.

 

I am sorry for going on so long,i will return to Basic Income which i will support.

I feel i have psychoanalysed myself.

Remember if you do not know,most of my working life i stared at brick walls from 3 feet away,a metre in modern measurements..On my own,35 years or so.

Finally i had a illness that forced me away from this,and suddenly see the world in a different way.And wonder should life have been different.Just a bloke on a forum as said before.

 

Bring on Basic Income Debate.

Thanks for making me think a little Fletch70.

I have many more videos,articles,really up to date on Basic Income.

But i have a little work to do.But will return soon.I hope that many out there will share their views on Basic Income.

Even On Wall Street the suits are beginning to lose their jobs or will,as automation,modern technology takes over.

Bye for now.

Tawnyowl.

[fletch70]

Hi Tawny

Thanks for the response, I must say not all of it made sense to me but as you said, you have posted elsewhere on the forum and these posts I haven't read.

 

The reason for my question in the first place was my belief that marxism is so much more than a political or even a sociological point of view. I take it as being a system of fairness and equality where each person gets what they need and contributes what they can- contributions can be in many different forms. It is certainly a very long way from the liberal capitalist ideals that seem to be prevalent today which is all about individualism and if you want my opinion, who you can step over to get what you ca.

 

I think the idea of a basic national income is great although I think that with the rights to the income would come responsibilities to provide to society what you can. Most people have certain talents and skills that can be used for the benefit of all.

 

A society built on greed and money will, I believe ultimately fail . If capitalism is all about increasing profits by being more competative etc , there will come a time when economies and hence extra profits can no longer be made and the system will collapse

[Tawnyowl]

Good ,interesting,well thought of post. Fletch70.

Thanks for posting,look forward to hearing from you again.

 

Back to Basic Income news,or thoughts of what if.

We’ve Hit Peak Human and an Algorithm Wants Your Job. Now What?

On Wall Street, the still-essential business of banking will go on—but maybe without as many suits.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-08/wall-street-has-hit-peak-human-and-an-algorithm-wants-your-job

 

Silicon Valley's Basic-Income Experiment Is Worth Watching

Silicon Valley is famous for disrupting industries, but disrupting social problems is a different matter. Closely held companies that exist in highly competitive markets can easily hurt the bottom line by spending resources on helping the needy -- which is why government, not business, usually provides aid to the poor. But against the odds, a Silicon Valley innovator is disrupting poverty.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-08/silicon-valley-s-basic-income-experiment-is-worth-watching

 

There Is a Way to Stop Machines From Making Americans Poorer-Same everywhere i feel.

 

10 Caregiver Reasons for a Basic Income Guarantee

A basic income guarantee is a cash payment every month to every adult citizen. It is an idea that would support the work of family caregiving that currently is not supported in our societies. This video was created to to support the efforts of BIWAG Basic Income Women Action Group. http://www.facebook.com/groups/BIWAG/

 

Just a few articles and a couple of videos.

See you soon Tawnyowl.

[citizenB]

Hi Tawny

Thanks for the response, I must say not all of it made sense to me but as you said, you have posted elsewhere on the forum and these posts I haven't read.

 

The reason for my question in the first place was my belief that marxism is so much more than a political or even a sociological point of view. I take it as being a system of fairness and equality where each person gets what they need and contributes what they can- contributions can be in many different forms. It is certainly a very long way from the liberal capitalist ideals that seem to be prevalent today which is all about individualism and if you want my opinion, who you can step over to get what you ca.

 

I think the idea of a basic national income is great although I think that with the rights to the income would come responsibilities to provide to society what you can. Most people have certain talents and skills that can be used for the benefit of all.

 

A society built on greed and money will, I believe ultimately fail . If capitalism is all about increasing profits by being more competative etc , there will come a time when economies and hence extra profits can no longer be made and the system will collapse

 

I think that is the main problem though isn't it, Fletch ? There are some in our society who would just hold their hand out and say thank you very much - and then not contribute at all !