Basic Income Guarantee-Do You Like The Idea-Any Views-Have Your Say.

[Guest]

hi citb

you mean 'do', not 'would'. though maybe more difficult nowadays to do so

 

a commensurate min wage shld suffice imo

[citizenB]

hi citb

you mean 'do', not 'would'. though maybe more difficult nowadays to do so

 

a commensurate min wage shld suffice imo

 

 

[Tawnyowl]

I am learning all the time.

Do you know or can you believe i did not know what imo meant,i looked it up i believe it means in my opinion.

Modern ways,texting etc i feel though do not know,just guessing.

 

Or commensurate-best i could come up with is-

corresponding in amount, magnitude, or degree: Your paycheck should be commensurate with the amount of time worked. 2. proportionate; adequate: a solution commensurate to the seriousness of the problem.

Now i understand, re relation to posts.

 

As you say citizenB there will be those who just say thanks very much,not donate their time,contribute.,not volunteer,help others etc.

But hopefully there will be millions who will if Basic Income comes about one day.

 

Thoughts of the minimum wage and as it rises employers will look at saving money,that sooner or later will come down to automation as is happening already,especially in China,imo.Automation v labour costs,only one winner imo.

 

On a lesser degree,but is starting in the western world as well.But could i will say will explode soon imo,i like using that now.

 

Say in one large factory,1000 workers each on the minimum wage.All over 25 for ease.

1000 x 7.20,i hope this works out at 7,200 pounds per hour.

Or 57,600 per day plus all the costs involved .

288,000 pound per 5 day week plus every business cost on top.

I hope this is correct or else i will look a right charlie,but puts my thought across.

 

So now Mr Robot steps in,already imports of machines,robots into China is growing massively.

10s of thousands losing their jobs or placed elsewhere,i have not checked that but will,see where they have gone.

Now Mr Robot will work 24 hours a day,no tiredness,no breaks for tea,maybe oil every now and again.

Forget about keeping them warm with all costs etc,no need.Forget about unions,oops,canteens,and the rest we can think about such as expensive locations.

 

So we must perhaps see the minimum wage rising and costs rising to employers.As time marches on.

Even the minimum wage for many is not really enough, so is topped up with benefits etc.

Will they just sit back and keep paying this.Would you, soft as i am would not.

 

Makes business sense

Just one way of seeing things.

But there is no doubt imo that there is a massive Industrial automated,robotic revolution on the way.

If i am shown to be wrong i will hold my head up and head for the door sharpish.Just a few thoughts late on a Friday night.

Let us see.And keep talking about Basic Income.

[Tawnyowl]

As Tech Evaporates Jobs, “The Tipping Point Will Be Driverless Trucks”

Driverless vehicles “will make what happened in the steel or auto industries look tiny,” says the former chief of one of America’s largest unions.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/coralewis/as-tech-evaporates-jobs-tipping-point-will-be-driverless-tru?utm_term=.sk6qbLQbKW#.woZoQRyQ2A

 

Humans Need Not Apply

 

Rabbi At Muhammad Ali’s Funeral Told World Governments to pay A Basic Income To All -4 MINS 58 SECONDS. IN.

https://youtu.be/Cza0IY1h6VI

 

Basic Income discussed among US Senators at “The Transformative Impact of Robots and Automation” Hearing

Universal Basic Income was recently discussed among US Senators and Congress members of the Joint Economic Committee (JEC) during a hearing on “The Transformative Impact of Robots and Automation” May 25, 2016.

https://medium.com/basic-income/basic-income-discussed-among-us-senators-at-the-transformative-impact-of-robots-and-automation-f6cf63009630#.e5tbgjpos

[fishfingered]

Why should my tax money go to somebody who has never contributed to society? It's a NO from me.

Edited June 12, 2016 by honeybee13
Unnecessary remark removed.

[fletch70]

Why should my tax money go to somebody who has never contributed to society? It's a NO from me.

 

Oh good generalisation (not) and maybe a bit of paranoia

 

At least consider the possibilities and reasoning behind it.

Edited June 12, 2016 by honeybee13
Removing part of quoted post.

[Nystagmite]

Won't this just mean you're going to have people like politicians just getting richer and richer when they don't need the money?

[fletch70]

I don't see why

 

I don't think this is an additional income on top of what you earn as such , if say the income was £10000 a year and your salary was £20000 , you would receive the 10K basic income and 10K top up salary. It would actually go a little way into sorting out the inequalities that are inherent in a liberal capitalist system

[citizenB]

I don't see why

 

I don't think this is an additional income on top of what you earn as such , if say the income was £10000 a year and your salary was £20000 , you would receive the 10K basic income and 10K top up salary. It would actually go a little way into sorting out the inequalities that are inherent in a liberal capitalist system

 

 

I guess the answer is to simply nationalise all those companies that were privatised and return to the inefficient working practices that were inherent at that time !

 

 

I still cant get my head round the fact that you would let a company such as Tesco who earn big profits for their shareholders - employ someone at say £10,000 (minimum living wage ) and then top up their salaries with tax payer money with a Basic Income Guarantee? Putting tax payer money into the pockets of the shareholders/owners?

 

 

Or have I missed something ?

[fletch70]

As far as i am concerned CB , anyone in a fun time job should be earning what the national wage is at a minimum. I agree wholeheartedly , why oh why do the government add to peoples wages from companies that a) make millions if not billions in profit and b) pay very little in the way of corporation tax . In effect taxpayers are subsidising the shareholders of tesco, Google, Starbucks etc

 

How can that be right ?

 

It does not need to follow that a nationalised industry needs to be inefficient and corrupt , in the bad old days the problem was that power hungry despots ran the unions, not for the benefit of members or anyone else but for their own benefit. I am not saying that there weren't some good Union leaders but there were some corrupt ones just as the layers of bureaucracy that maintained the unions were corrupt. All you needed was for one shop steward , who for some reason had an axe to grind to bring a company to its knees.

 

For those that have not heard of Taylor, his scientific management , a precursor to Ford and his production line , was able to increase the productivity of one man nearly 4 fold by analysing his work . As long as you pay the man for the increased productivity , to me that is fine, maybe in a nationalised industry you pay him 3 times his pay for his 4 times productivity . Anyway to move on, Lenin was a fan of the theory so if we follow the marxist doctrine of each to ability , each to need life is hunky dory . Ok I admit that we have some problems with human nature but from what I learnt at school, 35 years ago, Lenin's NEP was a midway point that recognised incentivising work. A necessary step on the road I think

[Tawnyowl]

Just popping in to put this on.Many people have questions about Basic Income.

This may help.

Frequently Asked Questions

The following FAQ’s are based on Philippe Van Parijs’s Background Paper to BIEN’s 9th Congress in Berlin, Basic Income. A simple and powerful idea for the 21st century.

http://www.basicincome.org/basic-income/faq/

[Tawnyowl]

Going to lighten things a touch.

Automation is coming,it is,it is,it is.

Prepare,plan and survive.

 

Who does the laundry in your house,flat, wherever you live.

Male or Female,i feel many especially with large families sometimes tire of this chore.

Although some i suppose enjoy this task.Diplomatic approach.

 

How many hours a week do you spend on this task,go on work it out then multiply by 52 and tell me how many hours you spend roughly per year on this chore.

 

How long before Washing Machine to Dryer to Folder then robot takes it to the designated drawers.

 

Well how about a automatic folder that steams,folds and tells you when it has finished.

Robotic Laundry Folding Machine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swNgjX0xHC8&feature=youtu.be

[fletch70]

Erm what's wrong with wash drip dry wear.

I know shirts are a bugger and need ironing. I'll have a maid to do that. Oh sorry I am the maid

[Tawnyowl]

Erm what's wrong with wash drip dry wear.

I know shirts are a bugger and need ironing. I'll have a maid to do that. Oh sorry I am the maid

 

Just thinking of how hard it is to iron a shirt.Memories of days gone by.

I just realised i have not worn a ironed shirt for years.Feel like a Hillbilly.

And why is this automatic ironing machine making me laugh.

 

Ironing Shirt Machine you can dry and iron at the same time shirts, blouses, t-shirts

[fletch70]

Thats madness

Even I can iron a shirt faster than it took her to set it up.

[citizenB]

TO, I think that Laundry friend is a bit of a con. There is a whole list of things it cant do and unless you have space where it can be left set up permanently, it will take longer to set up than to iron the conventional way

[Tawnyowl]

Just a few articles that may make you think soon it will be time to Debate Basic Income,Prepare-Plan and survive.

Will the Automated Industrial Revolution come quicker than we are prepared for.

I believe it will arrive quick.The technology is here and will be used as wages rise compared to Automation costs .

One worker on minimum wage over 25 7.20X 8 HRS a day = £57.60 x 5 days a week=288.00 Say 3 shifts per day in factory you can see how much labour costs are now never mind a few years down the line.

 

A Survey was carried out.

Only 27% of San Francisco's population had heard of Basic Income.

I wonder what it is in Great Britain.

 

As Tech Evaporates Jobs, “The Tipping Point Will Be Driverless Trucks”

Driverless vehicles “will make what happened in the steel or auto industries look tiny,” says the former chief of one of America’s largest unions.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/coralewis/as-tech-evaporates-jobs-tipping-point-will-be-driverless-tru?utm_term=.eyP4wybw1k#.gt3G7LB7bn

 

The technology is already here.China is getting on with this idea.Well it is not in Great Britain and America perhaps you are thinking.

Tests are being carried out in Great Britain,i will check on the latest news.

As for America where so many jobs from Diners,Businesses,Towns, rely on the truckers wages same i feel.

 

Arizona-based startup Local Motors has created a 3D-printed, self-driving bus that can carry up to twelve people. The bus is named Olli, and it’s designed to serve as an on-demand transportation option. Like human-helmed cars from Uber or Lyft, Olli would arrive to pick up riders after being summoned by a mobile app.

http://inhabitat.com/3d-printed-self-driving-olli-bus-to-hit-the-streets-in-the-us/

 

Video.

 

Self driving trucks.

Otto – Self-Driving Trucks

 

As you look around and see tens of thousands of jobs vanishing in Asia due to Automation and Machines quite able to run factories times are about to change fast.

Are we prepared,are Politicians aware of what is happening,they have so many things to concentrate on.

We will find out soon i feel.

Another two articles then,i do not want to put too many on at a time.

 

Constellation Brews a Fully Automated Factory

 

 

Two years ago.You can see a few workers,but really now two years later they can easily be replaced.

Awesome fully Automated BMW Car Factory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpwkT2zV9H0

Prepare,Debate,Plan and Survive.

[Tawnyowl]

Even sailors are going to lose their jobs.

 

Rolls Royce reveals remote controlled 'roboships' will take to the sea by 2020: Single operator can oversee ships from a holographic control room

Windows double as augmented reality screens to alert operators to icebergs , other ships and small hazards

Just two captains can operate entire ship using the smart bridge and a range of sensors

Research underway into entirely robotic ships that can be controlled remotely by operators from a central location

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3659201/Rolls-Royce-reveals-remote-controlled-roboship-augmented-reality-central-control-deck-hundreds-miles-

away-sea-2020.html

 

Think i was one of the first people to view this video,want to join me.

Rolls Royce reveals remote controlled 'roboships' will take to the sea by 2020

[Tawnyowl]

A bit early perhaps but how long before Automated Planes and Trains and Automated Handlers,in fact fully Automated Airports- even Railway stations.Bus stations,worth thinking about at least.

I will slow down, perhaps for now i am getting a little too excited.But i can see it,imagine it anyway.

The Future of Flight

 

Just think of your own jobs,whatever you do,could they be Automated.

If you think yes they could be.Well i believe they will be.

Maybe sooner than we think.But this would lead to so many opportunities for people.Some for the first time in their lives.

Free to do so many exciting things.What you would want to do.

As really in my opinion is what Humanity should be free to do.Not tied down.

Caring,Volunteering,Writing,Poets,Learning,Sport,Crafts,thousands upon thousands of things instead of?

One life,make the most of it thoughts.

Better go now.

But i will return.

Tawnyowl.

[Tawnyowl]

How many people are in the Military around the world.Will soldiers be needed as things advance.

Even perhaps on the streets in times of need.

What if?

Made about two years ago.

 

Future Military Robots-But how would you know when you have won,how would a war be won.The ones with the most money perhaps.The most Robots.

A rush to gain such might is guaranteed you would think.

[Tawnyowl]

UK’s Largest Trade Union Endorses Basic Income

Unite, Britain’s largest trade union, passed a motion endorsing basic income at the Unite 2016 Policy Conference on Monday, July 11.

 

Conference notes the growing crisis of low pay, in work poverty and precarity in a labour market increasingly characterised by casualised forms of employment that offer low pay, zero hours contracts and no long-term security.

 

Conference further notes the evident inability of our bureaucratically costly social security system, with its dependence on means-testing and frequent arbitrary sanction, to provide an adequate income floor.

 

Conference believes that a Basic Income, an unconditional, non-withdrawable income paid to everyone paid to everyone, has the potential to offer genuine social security to all while boosting the economy and creating jobs.

Conference calls upon the union to actively campaign for a Universal Basic Income and eradicate poverty for all.

 

Much more on the article including some very interesting links.

http://www.basicincome.org/news/2016/07/uks-largest-trade-union-endorses-basic-income/?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=uks-largest-trade-union-endorses-basic-income

[Tawnyowl]

For anyone reading this thread for the first time. From anywhere in the world.

I did not know anything about Basic Income a few months ago.

Maybe you do not know anything about Basic Income.Many have not heard of the idea.

I read a article by Scott Santens a American writer in LA.

Since then the idea has gained popularity worldwide.The idea is growing.

A old idea whose time has come.

Check out the first page many articles,views news and videos.And spread the message.

 

Basic Income Guarantee-Do You Like The Idea-Any Views-Have Your Say

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?461005-Basic-Income-Guarantee-Do-You-Like-The-Idea-Any-Views-Have-Your-Say.

[Tawnyowl]

UK: Major Trade Union Federation Endorses UBI.

 

Part of the notice.

Congress notes the growing popularity of the idea of a ‘Universal Basic Income’ with a variety of models being discussed here and around the world. Congress recognises the need for a rebuilding of a modern social security system for men and women as part of tackling poverty and inequality.

 

Congress believes that the TUC should argue for a progressive system that incorporates the basis of a Universal Basic Income system paid individually and that is complementary to comprehensive public services and childcare provision.

 

Congress believes that such a system would be easier to administer and easier for people to navigate than the current system which has been made increasingly punitive and has effectively been used to stigmatise benefit claimants. The operation of sanctions pushes people into destitution for trivial reasons.

 

Congress recognises that until the housing crisis is resolved there would also be a need for supplementary benefits to support people on low incomes with high housing costs and that there will always be a need for supplementary benefits for disabled people.

 

The link,worth a read as the idea grows in popularity.

http://basicincome.org/news/2016/09/uk-major-trade-union-federation-endorses-ubi/

 

 

Free money is not so funny anymore: Confessions of a (former) skeptic of basic income

http://www.salon.com/2016/08/21/free-money-is-not-so-funny-anymore-confessions-of-a-former-skeptic-of-basic-income/

 

Been away from the forums for a while.Catching up slowly with all the news.

[Tawnyowl]

Labour MPs debate universal basic income policy for the first time

An audience heard from supportive, undecided, and critical MPs

“It might be one of those iconic policy areas that in ten years time we think ‘why did we think it was ever controversial’ and ‘why didn’t we do this before?’”

 

Mr McDonnell said any basic income would have to be introduced alongside changes to progressive taxation – either wealth or income.

 

He added: “We’ve got to argue that this isn’t something alien – this is something that’s been gradually emerging in our society for some time and this is actually the next step on.

 

The Link.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/universal-basic-income-labour-uk-john-mcdonnell-labour-conference-live-latest-jeremy-corbyn-mps-a7333911.html

[citizenB]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/child-poverty-increases-low-income-families-tory-cuts-conservative-government-austerity-a7340466.html