PCN in suspended bay unclear sign advise appreciated

[adhkar]

So we've got a another parking ticket for parking in a suspended bay code 21.

 

not arguing that at all, but on inspection of the suspension notice it's as clear as mud.

 

Basically it says:

 

Suspension of 2 parking spaces opposite school.

 

Unhelpful as it doesn't state which 2 spaces there being over 8 parking spaces.

 

Now in the past I've won an similar appeal after writing to the adjudicator but council conceded before I had to go to the appeal. It was a parking suspension notice in a disabled bay which just stated one parking space suspended in the space of 3 cars.

 

Just wondering if I should follow the same tac and say the sign is wholly unclear as to which 2 spaces are actually suspended out of the 8. My car was parked at the end of the bay in a one way street. The notice could have read as the last 2 car parking spaces suspended to make that clear. As our local council doesn't make individual bays rather one long bay to say a space is suspended opposite a school is too unclear.

 

Looking forward to your replies thanks.

[adhkar]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?420421-code-21-pcn-a-little-advise-please

 

Link to past thread for comparison

 

also the suspension notice was quite a few spaces away from where I was parked. Had I walked right after parking my car there's no wayI would have seen the notice. One would only see it if walking left from where I parked.

[Jamberson]

Yeah, I would challenge it on that basis.

[adhkar]

Yeah, I would challenge it on that basis.

 

 

Thanks for the speedy reply. I was wondering if I should include the other appeal number so they can compare it or not?

[Jamberson]

Maybe. On the other hand they might think you've found a flaw in the system and are deliberately trying to exploit it. Could be counter-productive.

[adhkar]

I just received an NTO but no reply to my appeal. I'm unsure if I should contact the council or fill in the NTO I've checked with royal mail and my appeal was delivered on the 1st of September.

 

Any advise really appreciated as my instinct says call the council but I'm sure I've read on other threads not to.

[Jamberson]

By all means call them if you want to. What possible harm could it do? Ask them if a) they have your appeal on file, and b) whether they replied to it - and if so, could they check it was sent to the right address.

 

I think it's likely that they did get your appeal and decline it - otherwise the NTO would have been issued a few weeks ago (28 days after the PCN). If they considered your appeal and declined it, then you can ask them to reinstate the discount rate on the basis that you didn't get their reply - that's if you just want to pay it and be done.

 

But if you want to fight on, gambling the full charge, then you'll have to appeal again, in response to the NTO. It would be good to know what became of your appeal, as it may help you decide what to do next.

[adhkar]

By all means call them if you want to. What possible harm could it do? Ask them if a) they have your appeal on file, and b) whether they replied to it - and if so, could they check it was sent to the right address.

 

I think it's likely that they did get your appeal and decline it - otherwise the NTO would have been issued a few weeks ago (28 days after the PCN). If they considered your appeal and declined it, then you can ask them to reinstate the discount rate on the basis that you didn't get their reply - that's if you just want to pay it and be done.

 

But if you want to fight on, gambling the full charge, then you'll have to appeal again, in response to the NTO. It would be good to know what became of your appeal, as it may help you decide what to do next.

 

What does one do if they say they don't have the appeal on file? I've known my council to take much more than 28 days to reply to an appeal hence I don't think they've replied at all.

 

Currently what do I tick procedural impropriety on the NTO?

 

Thanks for the replies they're much appreciated.

[Jamberson]

If they say they don't have it, there's nothing you can do. If they do have it but haven't made a decision, then ask them to put the case on hold and reply to it before proceeding - see what they have to say about it.

 

I don't think there is a legal obligation on them to send a reply at that informal stage, but I could be wrong. In any case, if all else fails you could try responding to the NTO on impropriety as well as whatever other appeal grounds you want, but that would mean accepting the higher charge and fighting it at that rate.

[adhkar]

Ok I'll call them tomorrow morning not sure if they'll even speak to me as everything is going automated at my council so very hard to get to talk to an actual human being!

[green_and_mean]

(2) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 of the General Regulations must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under paragraph 1 of the Schedule to the General Regulations, include the following information—

 

(a)

 

that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and

.

 

(b)

 

that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—

.

 

(i)

 

those representations will be considered;

.

 

(ii)

 

but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

[adhkar]

Thank you got the reply green and mean.

 

I called up the council and it turns out I forgot to put my address on the appeal (doh!)

 

The CS assistant advised me to write in asking them to take a look at the initial appeal and see if they can bring the charge back down. Call back within a week for an update and then if they say no put in a formal appeal as I've got nothing to lose now just £130!

 

So what would you advise if they can't turn the clock back so to speak would you resend the original appeal or would you write a new one?

[Jamberson]

I'd do what they ask. Send in an appeal consisting of a request that they review your previous letter, plus a request that, should they turn it down, they reinstate the discount because of what happened. Then, wait and see what they come back with.

 

The trouble with the advice you were given is that when you do that, you will have used up your only appeal at this stage. You won't be able to send a further 'formal' appeal - but if you have anything to add, do so now, with your letter.

[adhkar]

Oh I see so anything I wrote in now will be seen as the formal appeal, I wasn't made aware of that. I think I'm going to have to word this letter very carefully in that case.

 

Seems silly though that they couldn't find out the address details from my cars registration and contact me like that. But then again that may be asking for a bit of humanity from the council.

[Jamberson]

Yep, your next piece of correspondence is the final thing they will consider (unless you are very lucky, and I wouldn't risk it on a double attempt!).

 

The first appeal, your informal one, could have come from anybody. They do not know where the letter came from, nor that you are also the keeper, nor do they have the keeper's details on file at that stage. So, they just have the letter to go by, and without an address they can't consider it. That's just the way the system works.

[adhkar]

So do I need to send in the NTO at the same time? Or doesn't it matter of its not sent in. I assumed that until I sent in the NTO they wouldn't take it as the formal appeal.

[Jamberson]

Doesn't make any difference, but whatever you do make sure you quote the PCN number correctly, and your signature, name and address must be on it.

[adhkar]

Yes I would be good to include the address wouldn't it lol

[adhkar]

So I just got a letter back from the council they've cancelled the PCN. Thank you everyone for your help.

[JoeyJoeC]

Good to hear!