Anyone Chinese out there can translate this?

[andrew1]

Thanks JoeyJoe, no I don't mind one bit...thanks for taking the time and trouble. One problem I have of course is with a square sign within a circlular bowl with 4 characters on it, which is Right and which is Left

 

'Supposed'? who's words are they, the writer or the book..? I can assure you it is yellow brass, must be given the colouring, but then the picture may have confused.

 

Surely someone making this wouldn't put 'this is a Ming Vase,but not really'? on his/her signature? ' Made in Hong Kong - in the style of Ming' perhaps? We'll get to the bottom of this I'm sure.

 

Thank you.

 

A1

[JoeyJoeC]

No problem. This is where I posted it, there was another reply:

 

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Antiques/Bronze-Chinese-Pot-3-legged-with-some-Chinese-symbols-Any-idea/m-p/24377198#M95262

 

 

(Since I uploaded the same image you uploaded, I'm guessing the text is the right way around.)

[andrew1]

Wow, never knew that extension to ebay existed, that's a first - thanks....I'll keep an eye on it now.

 

Thank you JoeyJoe

[determindator]

I wonder if the pot was used for burning something inside it. I think Brit Museum trip and then have tea and buns or if you ring their Chinese artifact dept and get an email contact, can send pics to them.

[andrew1]

I wonder if the pot was used for burning something inside it.

 

Maybe Mr Ming's bones !!

 

 

The plot thickens.....

 

A1

[determindator]

The pot thickens!

[Mr.P]

I've been polishing this since I was about 5 back in the early 50's and my mother was a bit of a brass collector - spent many a weekend in my youth polishing her collection of such items.

 

In doing so, you have rubbed away the patina that many collectors treasure and may have reduced the value of the item.

 

I'd also take that comment about "white brass" with a large pinch of salt. Without a detailed metallurgical analysis, it is often difficult to distinguish some brasses from bronze. With a snap taken by a mobile phone, the colour balance will be off and it would be a brave fool who would try to identify the metal from the snap.

[andrew1]

In doing so, you have rubbed away the patina that many collectors treasure and may have reduced the value of the item.

 

I'd also take that comment about "white brass" with a large pinch of salt. Without a detailed metallurgical analysis, it is often difficult to distinguish some brasses from bronze. With a snap taken by a mobile phone, the colour balance will be off and it would be a brave fool who would try to identify the metal from the snap.

 

Thanks Mr.P, but my mother would not have sat looking at 'unshined' brass sadly and she had loads of it, God bless her, I wished she'd taken it to her resting place beyond, but we were left with it to deal with.

 

I must say though, since raising the questions over the black inside, the possibility of it being bronze and so forth, this did take me back to my radiographer days in the foundry, a place I have long forgotten in my mind, where I saw, handled and X-Rayed many large and small bronze castings for such things as submarines and aircraft.

 

All kinds of castings from raw casts to finished machine-polished items like hatches and massive castings which made up the walls of the submarine the size of front doors which all those instruments sit in inside the sub. I saw them in various states of finish and looking into the pot again takes me to think it could well be bronze although the bronze I worked with had a more mottled colouring to it than the pure brass colour of this pot. It just could be bronze if as is suggested, the polishing has changed the finish.

 

So, not just the motto on the back, we are now seeking the material....deeper and deeper we go, I'll have to follow all this up now....

 

It's like Fake or Fortune this...over to you Fiona!

[citizenB]

Very intriguing

[mikeymack2002]

This is not Chinese try looking at Vietnamese or similar

[andrew1]

Thanks MikeyMack - that's a new twist..

[unclebulgaria67]

Or Korean.

 

If you look at some Korean writing symbols, it looks similar.

[mikeymack2002]

Have a look at censer bowls! did the original owner travel the far east if so try to find out which one or ones they did, if it is a censer bowl then it is for burning incense in this case it could be silver and the marking are the hallmark... The reason for being black inside is now obvious... Have a look around for the lid will make a nice eye catching piece .... Maybe smelling the inside may add to the intrigue

 

 

Have a look here silver censer bowls

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=what+is+a+censer+bowl&biw=1280&bih=573&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMI2eavnbq0xwIVpWrbCh1xeQaJ#tbm=isch&q=silver+censer+bowl

[citizenB]

Some very impressive bowls in that link mm.

[mikeymack2002]

I know I like burning so might get one from that auction site

[andrew1]

As Simon Cowell might say, "Wow, Wow, Wow". - That's it! This bowl of mine is a Censor bowl without doubt. Thank you so much Mikeymack. There are some wonderful looking bowls there in that link as citizenB says, but I noticed one thing, 99% of those with legs had 3 legs, just like mine.

 

I'd never even heard of a censor bowl before, but look at the shapes, take away the fancy trimmings and the shape of mine most definitely looks the same. I never had a lid, or can ever remember one and I certainly don't have it now even if there were.

 

I've just popped a question over to what looks like an expert on these things and I'll see what they come back with (although we're not doing badly here are we?)...I wonder what kind of history this pot actually has? - Wow!

 

Antique investigators extrordinaire - thanks folks! I'll be back..

 

A1

[mikeymack2002]

Arnie lol please come back.... Glad to have been of assistance to you in your quest, I guess a trip to the local takeaway is beyond reach? It could be cheaper and much more fun....

[caro]

Response from my Chinese in-law:-

 

"it has to be the manufacturer's logo or marque because I can't read the characters..."

[andrew1]

Response from my Chinese in-law:-

 

"it has to be the manufacturer's logo or marque because I can't read the characters..."

 

Thanks Caro, (you need to clear your PM box too young lady, impossible to talk to you in secret! )

 

Could also be another language which someone else has suggested, so I won't give up totally on that one yet, but thanks for asking the question for me.

 

Catch up later..cuppa time...

 

A1

[unclebulgaria67]

Response from my Chinese in-law:-

 

"it has to be the manufacturer's logo or marque because I can't read the characters..."

 

If you look at Asian symbol style writing, it appears to be joined up letters from their language. Because on the bowl the symbols are joined up and cannot be easily split into meaningful letters, they are probably just manufacturers made up marques.

[Mr.P]

There are some wonderful looking bowls there in that link as citizenB says, but I noticed one thing, 99% of those with legs had 3 legs, just like mine.

 

From a design point of view, three legs are always going to be stable, even if one is shorter that the other two. This means a manufacturer does not have to worry about precision machining and it will never rock on its feet.

 

Stick a coin under one leg and you'll see what I mean. Then try the same with something on four legs.

[andrew1]

Interesting Mr P..thanks..

[JoeyJoeC]

Well seems like many missed the link I posted.

 

The writing is a different style of Chineese called Seal Script. Someone translated the two characters on the left to say "Year Made".

 

I found this which looks similar, complete with writing on the bottom, and is called a Censer

 

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/39631345_chinese-gilt-bronze-tripod-censer

 

Here you are:

A censer is a bowl made to hold burning incense, often crafted from bronze, copper, porcelain, or stone. The first Chinese vessels designed specifically for burning incense appeared during the Western Han Dynasty, from 206 BC to 8 AD. By this time, ancient bowls like the ceramic dou or three-legged bronze ding had been adapted as vessels to hold ceremonial offerings, and eventually became the prototypes for incense holders.

 

Censers were made for several distinct uses that signified social status, from the incense baskets used to perfume bedclothes or garments to the small hand censers used as hand-warming devices in winter. Filled with incense made from dried aromatic plants and essential oils, many were utilized for religious or secular rituals, like funerary services or prayer offerings.

 

The simplest vessels were decorated with small geometric shapes, animal designs, or an ornamental band, while more complex censers made from precious metals might include cloisonné enamel or repousse engravings, as well as ornately carved lids. A few even took the form of jade or celadon-glazed statues, like a standing duck or a sailing ship. However, the most common form of Chinese censer was generally mounted on a three-footed base, or tripod, with two looped handles along its sides.

 

By the time of the Song Dynasty, from 960 to 1279 AD, incense culture was common to all classes in China. Along with flower arranging, tea-whisking, and painting, incense burning was regarded as one of the Four Arts of the Chinese Scholar. During the Ming Dynasty, from 1368 to 1644 AD, censers were adapted to more modern forms, such as the rectangular bronze vessels with delicate openwork lids from this period.

 

Boshanlu, or mountain censers, were particularly elaborate. Shaped like a miniature mountaintop on a narrow base and suspended over a larger ashtray, boshanlu were inspired by the Taoist pursuit of immortality. The pierced covering that fitted over the boshanlu’s bowl was carved with intricate peaks to resemble the “mountains of the immortals,” allowing smoke to rise like mist from its craggy forms.

 

Another ingenious censer design was the incense sphere, consisting of a latticed metal orb that hung from a long chain and opened in half along a center hinge. This sphere surrounded a small cup that was weighted with a bearing to ensure the incense wouldn’t spill as it was carried.

 

Looks like the base was filled with something, perhaps what is still there now, look at these images: http://www.bonsaiinformation.com/Censers.htm

[andrew1]

So the next two must translate to the date maybe as they'd hardly say that then leave the date off would they?

 

There are some very similar looking pots on the auction sites too, One was on Dickinsons Auctioneers website and was purported to be a Brass cast bowl (Possibly Ming) - Not valued much, but when I first mentioned Ming I was having a laugh! We are getting there.

 

Thanks

[JoeyJoeC]

It's not a date as the Chinese calendar is different. It should say a reign which can identify the date range, but they were unable to decipher this.

 

You may have missed it, but I have updated my post above with more information. Looks like it is a Censer (not Censor) pot used for burning incents / smelly things.